Yes, you can always find some small print
Why Toyota and Honda have no oil specs?
- Thread starter Jeep Junkie
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The super fine print is: That was when GF6 was initially implemented. Not the current generation we have now.
Super super fine print: Oils today are GF7 ready, from several major brands.
It’s not like additive companies just stop development. And base oil producers just stop upgrades and production gains. It’s a constantly evolving business.
You missed it again ... it's not about if one oil is dexos licensed and the other one isn't, and both are the same exact oil and one isn't "better" than the other. It's about if an oil that passes dexos test specs is better than one that doesn't pass the test specs.
As a consumer, they will have no idea if the oil passed the dexos test specs if it doesn't have the logo and license printed on the bottle. Just like with motorcycle specific motor oils for wet clutch use, if it doesn't have the JASO MA/MA2 cert on the bottle, you don't have any info if it meets the JASO spec or not. Or the Ford (or any other car maker) specs ... if they are not shown on the bottle, the consumer will not know if it meets the specs or not. Then everyone is flying blind.
Never made any such claim. Again, only actual performance testing will say which one is actually better.
Link the proof of that. Sounds like it's way less than that now. When it first stared, the dexos license fee was much higher, but obviously oil sellers have balked over it for years and the license fee has been adjusted.
What's the difference in test spec testing procedures for a dexos approved oil vs one that's not. GM has set some different levels of pass/fail on testing performance.
So then tell us (without being pompous, lol) what the test spec differences are between the following specs/licenses. These are all on a bottle of Valvoline Advanced - along with API SP and ILSAC GF-6A if course. Which spec has the more stringent testing specs/requirements, and why.
1) Ford WWS-M2C961-A1
2) Chrysler MS-6395
3) GM dexos1 Gen 3
4) API SP
5) ILSAC GF-6A
Then maybe the oil sellers should not pay the license fee, remove the dexos logo form the bottle and just say "meets dexos1 Gen 2" or whatever on the back of the bottle. Then you might have more joy in your life, lol.
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How is it better? Just because one will say “meets or exceeds” and the other will say “Dexos 2 Gen 3” certified?
a spec that has nothing to do with PCEO application, as you said. It’s a Motorcycle spec. So, it should be on motor cycle oil. As it’s the unified spec. Like if gasoline engine oil was missing the GF6/SP spec…
https://www.dexosesubmission.org/
Go submit your sample and get your bill. Then divide that into the number of gallons you’re estimating you will sell in a year.
Hmmm… which is why they denied Ford a Dexos license for their full synthetic… alright… well keep thinking that.
Ford - that oil is certified by ford to run in their engines. Just submit additive and base oil data essentially. Chrysler - same thing, but specifically in 3.6-5.2 engines. Dexos - SP @ 13% Noack or less essentially. SP and GF6A are the series of tests that are well documented. If you want me to regurgitate the ~460 page Afton book, I’ll pass.
Then maybe the sellers should not pay the license fee, remove the dexos logo form the bottle and just say "meets dexos1 Gen 2" or whatever on the back of the bottle. Then you might have more joy in your life, lol.
Weird. They are.
And I enjoy my life a lot. I love the oil industry. And specifically my perspective in it. As I get to see it from a completely different perspective than a normal consumer. And I can say safely, the normal consumer is more price driven than anything else. Which is why a lot of OEMs are doing free oil changes when you buy a car. Things like that. It also gets the consumer back into the dealership where they will spend more money.
As I’ve said before. BITOG users, are the .001% of the oil consumers in the U.S. and thus, what they want, isn’t what’s going to happen. For the most part with the majors, this site is a meme. Probably part of my attitude is because I got made fun of for the last 3 weeks by very high up people at a major oil company for posting here.
"Want to run a DEXOS oil" ? I'm not an oil snob and have and will use a variety of oils in our vehicles (none are GM). I have no idea if the oil is DEXOS or not nor do I care.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
Not knowing / not caring if the word DEXOS exists on your oil jug is proof enough.
If you are not reading oil jug information on what's best for your engine, then you hit the nail on the head about not caring.
That begs the question how much testing does $1,250 or whatever they charge pay for.
You have chosen....
Wisely.
Two of our cars spec conventional, API oil. Any modern synthetic oil far exceeds what they need. The newer car recommends "ILSAC GF-6A". Show me a synthetic oil that doesn't meet that.
And give me one reason to care if an oil is DEXOS spec'd or not. DEXOS means NOTHING to non-GM vehicles.
Talking crap about new age Toyota is stooping low… no one cares about new age Toyota garbage. I only care about pre 2008ish pre 2006ish Toyota Lexus products, anything after isn’t nearly as good. And anything after 2015 is another step down, and anything after 2023 is literal garbage
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Slightly older with GF-5 but https://pqia.org/2022/09/29/advisory-issued-on-gp-petrogen-0w-20-fully-synthetic-engine-oil/
You tell us why an oil that passes dexos specs and test requirements isn't better than one that doesn't pass them. I keep pointing that out but you just side step it and can't seem to give an answer. The part I posted didn't even mention "meets or exceeds", so don't know why that came up in your response. I'm specifically saying one meets and one does not meet dexos, and if you think that the one that doesn't meet dexos is "just as good", then tell us why.
You missed the point once again. I was using the JASO spec as an example to get a point across, which you failed to get. It had nothing to do with car oil, it was another example of having a spec that an oil can meet or not. If it's on the bottle the buyer knows it meets the spec vs a bottle that doesn't have the spec, regardless if the oil inside "could have" met the spec. As a consumer, you don't have a certified oil test lab in the garage to figure out what specs the oil meets, you look at the bottle.
For any big oil seller, the dexos license cost is a drop in the bucket.
Maybe it didn't really have what it took to meet the dexos specs and testing sequences, lol.
You mean just like GM dexos is certified by GM to run in their engines, lol. How is the Ford spec more stringent than the dexos spec? What actual test parameters and pass/fail criteria limits are different between them? These spec certifications are not just based on base oil, additives and Noack. There are also physical test standards and sequence procedures involved. What's the difference in those. You should know since you're "in the industry".
Maybe your buddies are too afraid to post here.And I enjoy my life a lot. I love the oil industry. And specifically my perspective in it. As I get to see it from a completely different perspective than a normal consumer. And I can say safely, the normal consumer is more price driven than anything else. Which is why a lot of OEMs are doing free oil changes when you buy a car. Things like that. It also gets the consumer back into the dealership where they will spend more money.
As I’ve said before. BITOG users, are the .001% of the oil consumers in the U.S. and thus, what they want, isn’t what’s going to happen. For the most part with the majors, this site is a meme. Probably part of my attitude is because I got made fun of for the last 3 weeks by very high up people at a major oil company for posting here.
Seems like there is a lot to hide in " the industry". 
Per the dexos license site link in post 124, the submitter must have required engine test data as part of the dexos license submission. The submitter would have to pay for all the submitted oil and engine testing to achieve the required submission data. The $1,250 is just the license fee.
Most people could care less what spec an oil has on its bottle. Whatever is cheapest when they go to Walmart to buy oil for an oil change is what probably most look for. Their engine will be just fine
Patman
Staff member
As I’ve said before. BITOG users, are the .001% of the oil consumers in the U.S. and thus, what they want, isn’t what’s going to happen. For the most part with the majors, this site is a meme. Probably part of my attitude is because I got made fun of for the last 3 weeks by very high up people at a major oil company for posting here.
I’m not sure why they would make fun of you, sure this site (like any large message board) has some members who post false information but then why don’t more of these “high up people” come in here and tell us the real story? We would certainly appreciate that input! And where else are people supposed to turn to on the internet for information about oil? Oil companies are absolutely TERRIBLE at responding to emails when people have simple technical questions (even something as simple as answering what is the HTHS of a particular oil for example) I have often sent emails to oil companies asking them a simple question and most of the time it goes unanswered and if it gets answered it is from someone in marketing who has no clue what I’m asking them. Let these “high up people” know that they should stop making fun of you and either get involved here or at least have actual technical support that answers their emails properly!
Patman
Staff member
It would be great for more industry experts to join here!! But I completely understand why they wouldn’t want the headache. Not to mention the time commitment answering all our questions.
Patman
Staff member
We have had a few Q&A sessions with various industry insiders over the years (and you can still see those answers as stickies here on the forum) and we definitely appreciate when they do this for us! But it would be nice (and probably wishful thinking) if they would participate at least on a part basis in various other topics posted in here.
1. Why would it not say meets or exceeds? That’s how this industry works. Look at Amsoil, HPL, redline, etc. I already mentioned why - there are a lot of synthetic blends oils, that pass Dexos. So you’re telling me Pennzoil synthetic blend Dexos 1 Gen 3, is better than say an HPL product? Hmm. Okay.
I’m glad you doubled down on this, as you’re making my point. Like absolutely nailing my point. JASO is… The Japanese Automotive Standards Organization. This is why we have the API in the U.S. My original point, and still my point: Having individual manufacturers specs, is dumb. Especially ones where the manufacturer can produce an income stream from it.
Ohhhh… so who’s lubricants P&L are you looking at? I didn’t realize that tens of millions of dollars is a drop in the bucket but, okay. Maybe my perspective is different than a consumers.
If you want a copy of the specifications book from an additive company, please go buy one from them. I know a lot of things, there are things I can share and things I won’t share. My point again, is it’s not some magical standard that’s above everything else.
There are rarely engine sequences tests done for these certifications however. All the testing data is done by the additive company. You submit your sample, the testing data and get your approval.
Maybe your buddies are too afraid to post here.
Or just don’t want to deal with people that have no concept how it works.
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