Why the Fram love on this board?

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by maxdustington
BITOG knows more about oil and filters than other boards, it is a website devoted to engine oil.

There is a Fram employee on this board and no other manufacturers have reached out. It is similar to the love for Astro tools on The Garage Journal. When a company actually engages with their customers and listens to them, the customers will obviously choose their product.

A lot of that knowledge from other boards is probably out dated BITOG knowledge from when Fram sucked and Tear-o-lator was the bomb diggity on these boards. I'm going to assume that generic filter advice on model specific boards will be OEM or K&N.

The Fram Ultra is the best filter you can get and even the OCOD has a silicone ADBV, how many other manufacturers can boast that? Fram is similar to Seiko where there is value up and down the line up and it is hard to go wrong at any price point.




^^^^^^^^^

Great post here.

 

[CR94]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
... A filter causing an engine to rattle all the time is strange, unless the filter is totally clogged and chokes down the flow to near zero - and the PD pump would also have to be in pressure relief at 80~90 PSI - which seems pretty far fetched with a new filter. Maybe these cars have bad or very weak PD oil pumps.
Agree, at least mostly. Another possible cause of "start-up rattle": When new, some filters used to require surprisingly high pressure initially to overcome the ADBV spring force, and perhaps the valve materials sticking together. I once knew a '74 VW Dasher on which the oil pump apparently lost its prime during oil changes. Trying to pump air through the sticky ADBV, it sometimes took an alarmingly long time before the oil-pressure idiot light finally went out. Can that still happen?

 

[blupupher]

Originally Posted by spasm3
... I won't run them because there are much better filters for the same money.

Care to share which filters are "much better filters for the same money" than Fram?

For my truck (2002 F150 with the 5.4), the PH 2 is $3.77, ToughGuard is $6.64, and Ultra is $8.97 (my walk into Walmart price every day).

Only readily available filter close in price to the Fram Extragard is the Supertech, and that is a Champ made filter with a combo valve and lower filtering numbers. Most all other major filter manufactures (Wix, Champ and Puro made store brands) are in the $5 range. There are a few Wix made store brand that may be the same price as the Fram, but again, a combo valve filter, which is a step down from the seperate bypass/silicone ADV of the Extraguard. Sure there are some made in China/ROK filters out there that are cheaper (heck, I have used some of the $2 EcoGard filters in my truck) but you don't always know the quality of those.
Comparing a Toughguard to a Wix, Purolator Pure One, Mobil 1 or K&N, TG is also cheaper.
As for synthetic media filters, I can't touch a Royal Purple, Amsoil, Wix XP/NAPA Platinum, or Purolator Boss for less than $13, and most are much more (like 2x the cost) of a Fram Ultra.

 

[Onetor]

sloinger,

You can get the Fram Ultra on ebay for around $4.50 each when you buy a case (6). That is a fantastic price. Half the price of WallyWorld.

Coupled with the fact that Motorking (fram rep) will answer questions and is happy to give out data, per application. Google is your friend!

 

[chainblu]

" I won't run them because there are much better filters for the same money."

I'm purposely not singling out anybody here because that is one of the most common statements against Fram. Last time I was in Walmart, an orange Fram was $3.77 (USD)

What other filter offers 95% efficiency (at 20 microns) and a silicon adbv for less that $4? I'm not being snarky, I really want to know so I can try one.

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted by blupupher
Originally Posted by spasm3
... I won't run them because there are much better filters for the same money.

Care to share which filters are "much better filters for the same money" than Fram?

For my truck (2002 F150 with the 5.4), the PH 2 is $3.77, ToughGuard is $6.64, and Ultra is $8.97 (my walk into Walmart price every day).

Only readily available filter close in price to the Fram Extragard is the Supertech, and that is a Champ made filter with a combo valve and lower filtering numbers. Most all other major filter manufactures (Wix, Champ and Puro made store brands) are in the $5 range. There are a few Wix made store brand that may be the same price as the Fram, but again, a combo valve filter, which is a step down from the seperate bypass/silicone ADV of the Extraguard. Sure there are some made in China/ROK filters out there that are cheaper (heck, I have used some of the $2 EcoGard filters in my truck) but you don't always know the quality of those.
Comparing a Toughguard to a Wix, Purolator Pure One, Mobil 1 or K&N, TG is also cheaper.
As for synthetic media filters, I can't touch a Royal Purple, Amsoil, Wix XP/NAPA Platinum, or Purolator Boss for less than $13, and most are much more (like 2x the cost) of a Fram Ultra.



Napa silver. $3.99 for my hyundai. Does have nitrile drainback valve. But has steel end caps. I run the fram ultra, But if i was going to run an economy filter this would be it. My filter is mounted base plate up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSjZsNOehqI

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by CR94
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
... A filter causing an engine to rattle all the time is strange, unless the filter is totally clogged and chokes down the flow to near zero - and the PD pump would also have to be in pressure relief at 80~90 PSI - which seems pretty far fetched with a new filter. Maybe these cars have bad or very weak PD oil pumps.
Agree, at least mostly. Another possible cause of "start-up rattle": When new, some filters used to require surprisingly high pressure initially to overcome the ADBV spring force, and perhaps the valve materials sticking together.


A positive displacement oil pump would open a stuck ADBV in less than a fraction of a second. The pump will force the oil up to whatever it's pressure relief valve is set to (80~120 PSI depending on the engine) if there is that much resistance to flow.

Losing pump prime is a whole different issue. I've never seen lose of pump prime on any vehicle I've changed oil on, even on engines rebuilt that were never ran and had no oil in the pump.

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by StevieC
My filter was mounted with the bottom of the can facing down making the ADBV useless so it can't be that, ADBV are only for side mounted or upside down mounted filters.


Another myth many still believe. There's been many threads discussing and showing how oil can still drain down in the galleries above an oil filter mounted in that orientation. That still causes a lack of oil flow for a short period.


Sure ~ This is basic U-tube hydrostatic principle … whilst the can may stay full (bottom of U-tube) … a poor sealing ADBV will allow the highest gallery to drain to point of equalization … this will evacuate some oil …

 

[ZeeOSix]

Delete, double post.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by 4WD
Sure ~ This is basic U-tube hydrostatic principle …


Yep ... +1.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
What I'm saying is a few instances like that can grow legs and spread like wildfire and cause a "bad reputation" that never dies........


This I agree 100% with. And I believe is the only "problem" that orange Fram oil filters ever had.

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
What I'm saying is a few instances like that can grow legs and spread like wildfire and cause a "bad reputation" that never dies........


This I agree 100% with. And I believe is the only "problem" that orange Fram oil filters ever had.



Well stated billt460.

I think that's exactly right here has well.

Funny story here.... My girlfriend at the time went in Advance Auto to get oil and filter for her Pontiac Sunfire. She knew the filter was the Fram orange can 3387a filter. The guy there tried to tell her it was a different filter... And she told him that she knew without any doubt that she had the right one. And she was right by the way. I figured she was a keeper at that time

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted by chainblu
" I won't run them because there are much better filters for the same money."

I'm purposely not singling out anybody here because that is one of the most common statements against Fram. Last time I was in Walmart, an orange Fram was $3.77 (USD)

What other filter offers 95% efficiency (at 20 microns) and a silicon adbv for less that $4? I'm not being snarky, I really want to know so I can try one.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^^^^^

Good post chainblu!!!!!!!!

 

[blupupher]

Originally Posted by spasm3

Napa silver. $3.99 for my hyundai. Does have nitrile drainback valve. But has steel end caps. I run the fram ultra, But if i was going to run an economy filter this would be it. My filter is mounted base plate up.


So a filter that cost more (yes, it is only $0.22 more), has a nitrile combo valve (again, this is in the application for my truck, but a nitrile valve regardless of what application), and worse filtering (hard to get exact Wix numbers, but the Pro-Select (which is the Silvers little brother) has been extrapolated it to be 68% @ 20 microns (LINK)) is better?
I see nothing better in there. Seems your criteria for better is metal end caps?

I have no problem with Wix (aside from not liking the combo valve) and most other filter makes, but saying there are better filters for less than the Fram, I need a better answer than metal end caps.

Then funny thing is, 10 years ago, my only gripe about Fram was there were better filters out there for the price, but Fram prices have remained the same while others have slowly gone up (and Fram quality has improved).

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Originally Posted by blupupher
Originally Posted by spasm3

Napa silver. $3.99 for my hyundai. Does have nitrile drainback valve. But has steel end caps. I run the fram ultra, But if i was going to run an economy filter this would be it. My filter is mounted base plate up.


So a filter that cost more (yes, it is only $0.22 more), has a nitrile combo valve (again, this is in the application for my truck, but a nitrile valve regardless of what application), and worse filtering (hard to get exact Wix numbers, but the Pro-Select (which is the Silvers little brother) has been extrapolated it to be 68% @ 20 microns (LINK)) is better?
I see nothing better in there. Seems your criteria for better is metal end caps?

I have no problem with Wix (aside from not liking the combo valve) and most other filter makes, but saying there are better filters for less than the Fram, I need a better answer than metal end caps.

Then funny thing is, 10 years ago, my only gripe about Fram was there were better filters out there for the price, but Fram prices have remained the same while others have slowly gone up (and Fram quality has improved).



Yes and while other filters have not increased their efficiency to 99% + at 20 microns how do they justify those increases when many of them are now made outside the country at much cheaper labor costs?

 

[dawgn86]

how about Royal Purple oil filters?

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Originally Posted by dawgn86
how about Royal Purple oil filters?



98.7% efficient at 20 Microns and more expensive than a Fram Ultra 99% + I think.

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted by blupupher
Seems your criteria for better is metal end caps?

I need a better answer than metal end caps.

Then funny thing is, 10 years ago, my only gripe about Fram was there were better filters out there for the price, but Fram prices have remained the same while others have slowly gone up (and Fram quality has improved).



I agree the lower end fram has improved, with the adv. But yes I won't run a filter without metal endcaps, so that's my measure of better. It really does not matter anyway as i run the fram ultra.

I would run an orange can over a purolator, but thats all in theory as i won't run either one. If i could not get an ultra i'd run a napa gold or platinum.

 

[CR94]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
... A positive displacement oil pump would open a stuck ADBV in less than a fraction of a second. The pump will force the oil up to whatever it's pressure relief valve is set to (80~120 PSI depending on the engine) if there is that much resistance to flow.
Losing pump prime is a whole different issue. ...
Loss of pump prime was THE issue, perhaps compounded by wear or loose clearances in the pump. Relief valve pressure was irrelevant. Pressure to overcome a sticky ADBV was probably on the order of only 2 psi. Remember, this was a VW.

The same owner (my brother) later bought another VW, on which the oil-pressure light intermittently blinked when it was still fairly new. Dealer claimed that was caused by quirky electronics, not actual low pressure. Finally, after the warranty period had ended, they checked the actual pressure with a gauge, and found 4 psi. VW paid for a replacement pump, but not the labor. No further problems with oil pressure in that engine, which ran well beyond 300K.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by CR94
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
... A positive displacement oil pump would open a stuck ADBV in less than a fraction of a second. The pump will force the oil up to whatever it's pressure relief valve is set to (80~120 PSI depending on the engine) if there is that much resistance to flow.
Losing pump prime is a whole different issue. ...
Loss of pump prime was THE issue, perhaps compounded by wear or loose clearances in the pump. Relief valve pressure was irrelevant. Pressure to overcome a sticky ADBV was probably on the order of only 2 psi. Remember, this was a VW.


I see what you're saying. I'm sure once the pump did prime up with oil there still would have been enough pressure to easily open a rubber ADBV. But if the pump was trying to prime and couldn't, then obviously there wouldn't be any real pressure or oil flow from the output of the pump. Even an oil pump on it's last leg should have enough output pressure to overcome an ADBV if it's primed up. If not, then oil would never get to the engine.