Why the Fram love on this board?

[jongies3]

Originally Posted by Colt45ws
Nothing wrong with FRAM. At least the OCOD doesn't tear even when overloaded, unlike the Purolator that does with 7500 on a clean Ford 4.6.

I use Ultra exclusively unless cost is an issue, however running an Ultra for two or more oil changes helps amortize the inital cost.
Fram makes filters for Racing applications. No excuse for flattening filters on race engines with standard filters.

I did see where quite awhile ago, someone blew out a ACDelco Ecore on a built SBC I think? It was something GM with the oil filter bypass in the block. The engine builder had disabled the bypass for god only knows what reason. Not a good one, whatever it was. Of course running really thick oil and they took it out for a drive. Got on the throttle before it was warmed up. I think the debris from the filter damaged the motor IIRC.
So a case of wrong filter for the application, and likely the bypass should have been left alone. But at the very least a racing filter should have been used.

What in the world happened to that poor filter?!

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted by hallstevenson
What's the saying, "Opinions are like *******. Everybody has one." ? Anytime I read, "I heard..." or "I read..." or "My uncle's neighbor's backyard mechanic told me...", it's immediately thrown out.

I would rather see examples of damaged engines from all of these horrible Fram oil filters. Anyone know where they are?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
What's the saying, "Opinions are like *******. Everybody has one." ? Anytime I read, "I heard..." or "I read..." or "My uncle's neighbor's backyard mechanic told me...", it's immediately thrown out.

I would rather see examples of damaged engines from all of these horrible Fram oil filters. Anyone know where they are?


Didn't you know that dirty bypassing oil causes less engine wear than cleaner oil . Would you run a filter with the bypass valve stuck open 100% of the time? Just because engines don't blow-up from a torn filter doesn't mean something negative isn't going on.

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
What's the saying, "Opinions are like *******. Everybody has one." ? Anytime I read, "I heard..." or "I read..." or "My uncle's neighbor's backyard mechanic told me...", it's immediately thrown out.

I would rather see examples of damaged engines from all of these horrible Fram oil filters. Anyone know where they are?



You can have increased wear without the engine failing. Do you think a filter with a hole in it ( like the purolator) , is as good as one with out?

I could run my car without an air filter for a month. If the engine does not fail, does that mean its not a problem?

Having said that, i run fram ultra filters but i won't run an extra guard.

 

[SOHCman]

Not Fram love, Fram Ultra love specifically!

 

[blupupher]

There is "love" for them because they have been shown to be good performing filters.

People here question and research things that others have only heard about from some mechanic friends brothers uncle.

Uneducated people rag on Fram because of the "cardboard" endcaps, a material that is stronger than the filter media itself. They read one story from 20 years ago of a Fram failing on a vehicle at a track causing a wreck (no reason ever given, was it not safety wired, was it the wrong filter, was their a mechanical issue that cause the filter to fail?) and feel that applies to all filters made by this manufacturer.

What other filter manufacturer has a filter that filters 95% @ 20 microns, has a silicone ADV and blended media, all for under $4?
Who else has a filter that is 99.9% @ 20 microns and is rated for 20,000 miles of use, for under $10?

While I do use other filter brands and tend to get filters on sale or clearance, if I am ever paying full price for a filter, Fram is one of the few on that list (Wix is on that list, as is Supertech for cartridge applications).

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by StevieC
Me on the other hand use premium synthetic filters rated for the long haul along with a premium synthetic oil. I just can't bring myself to use a Fram.


What's wrong with the Ultra in your thinking, just the name?

 

[StevieC]

I had problems with Fram before they came out with Ultra using their OCOD and Tough Guard causing noisy lifters on my Santa Fe. I haven't used them since. I never said that there was issues with Ultra. After the experience I had I have steered clear of the brand. IMO what I'm using now has superior media and didn't cause the issues I had with the Fram then so I continued using that brand instead. My dad on the other hand uses the OCOD no problems with conventional oil in the dead of winter here. Great for him I say, it's a preference for me to stay away.

 

[sloinker]

So, if I get what the gist of the answers are. Fram Ultra is great. Original Orange can is also probably OK. This saves me time and money as I usually buy some oil at walmart but end up going to O'reilly's to buy the Wix filters. I can save the time and $ buying fram Ultra from now on. Does this hold true to the cartridge filters too?

 

[StevieC]

I think some filters like the Fram Orange Cans can be problematic for some vehicles because the engine is fussy and wants a little more flow than it can provide. That doesn't mean it causes problems for all engines. My Santa Fe was one of those fussy engines that wanted either an OEM filter or the Amsoil filter I ended up going to in order to work properly without noise. My dad's PentaStar V6 is fine with the basic Fram entry level filter (Orange Can). (It uses a Cartridge)

Fram Ultra seems to be the best of the best here according to a lot of members. That is the one you would want to buy based on their recommendations if they are on sale. I use Wix on my inlaws vehicles with Yearly oil changes on Synthetic and they run great. Also a solid brand with a long reputation for quality.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by StevieC
I think some filters like the Fram Orange Cans can be problematic for some vehicles because the engine is fussy and wants a little more flow than it can provide. That doesn't mean it causes problems for all engines.


I'd still like to hear a good explanation from someone on how a positive displacement oil pump is going to cut down oil flow to the engine when a filter has a few more PSI of extra delta-p than another filter.

I think a lot of the complaints about filters causing engine noise at start-up is due to a leaky ADBV - regardless of brand. A filter causing an engine to rattle all the time is strange, unless the filter is totally clogged and chokes down the flow to near zero - and the PD pump would also have to be in pressure relief at 80~90 PSI - which seems pretty far fetched with a new filter. Maybe these cars have bad or very weak PD oil pumps.

 

[StevieC]

My filter was mounted with the bottom of the can facing down making the ADBV useless so it can't be that, ADBV are only for side mounted or upside down mounted filters.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by StevieC
My filter was mounted with the bottom of the can facing down making the ADBV useless so it can't be that, ADBV are only for side mounted or upside down mounted filters.


Another myth many still believe. There's been many threads discussing and showing how oil can still drain down in the galleries above an oil filter mounted in that orientation. That still causes a lack of oil flow for a short period.

 

[StevieC]

Even if that were the case then it's still a Fram problem because it went away with an OE filter and with the Amsoil filter. If I still had the vehicle I would have tried a Fram Ultra just to see but unfortunately the camshaft in there had other ideas.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by StevieC
Even if that were the case then it's still a Fram problem because it went away with an OE filter and with the Amsoil filter. If I still had the vehicle I would have tried a Fram Ultra just to see but unfortunately the camshaft in there had other ideas.

Like said, any filter can have a bad ADBV. And if your experiece was cold start-up noise for a short time and then it disappeared, then it's most likely some oil above the filter drained out, even though the filter was mounted base up.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted by spasm3
You can have increased wear without the engine failing.


I don't deny that. All I'm saying is with all of the badmouthing that takes place with and about Fram orange oil filters, I would like to see some documentation backing it up. (And by that I don't mean a cut open filter). Otherwise it's nothing but opinion and hearsay. Has anyone ever shown or proven an engine serviced with nothing but Orange Fram orange oil filters has suffered excessive or increased wear, or premature failure over it's lifetime? Because you have people suggesting exactly that if they run them.

 

[demarpaint]

Why the Fram love? Because they make a good filter. In well over 40 years of driving and changing oil I never had an issue with a Fram filter and I used a lot of them. Joining this board steered me to Purolator, which ended up being a mistake. I should have stuck with Fram and Mobil 1 filters the whole time. Now I'm back to Fram exclusively and plan on sticking with them unless they screw something up.

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by spasm3
You can have increased wear without the engine failing.


I don't deny that. All I'm saying is with all of the badmouthing that takes place with and about Fram orange oil filters, I would like to see some documentation backing it up. (And by that I don't mean a cut open filter). Otherwise it's nothing but opinion and hearsay. Has anyone ever shown or proven an engine serviced with nothing but Orange Fram orange oil filters has suffered excessive or increased wear, or premature failure over it's lifetime? Because you have people suggesting exactly that if they run them.



That's a better statement that i can kind of agree with. I won't run them because there are much better filters for the same money.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by billt460
Has anyone ever shown or proven an engine serviced with nothing but Orange Fram orange oil filters has suffered excessive or increased wear, or premature failure over it's lifetime? Because you have people suggesting exactly that if they run them.


I don't think anyone is claiming the Fram orange can (EG series) is causing more engine wear. They are rated at 95% at 20 microns, which is pretty good and better than alot of filters. So if they are claiming a filter that efficience is wearing out engines, then they really don't know much about engine wear and oil filters. Now if they claimed that torn filters could increase engine wear, then I'd agree with that logic.

All the Fram hate stems from years ago when they weren't built as well as today, and probably some bad looking filters after use, and some posdible failures. And the stigma that non-metal end caps are bad, even though other brands don't use metal end caps, still lives on.

There was a thread many years ago I recall where a poster said something broke off from a filter on the dirty side of the media, but apparently got though the bypass valve and caused some engine damage. The shop had the piece from inside the engine, and it matched up to the place it broke off on the filter. He was fighting with the filter maker to cover the repair costs. Don't recall the filter brand, but I don't think it was a Fram. He came here for advice, and when told the piece got into the engine through the bypass valve the filter maker covered the repair after looking at his case further.

What I'm saying is a few instances like that can grow legs and spread like wildfire and cause a "bad reputation" that never dies - regardless of the brand. The Purolator tearing media fiasco will probably live on forever too I would suspect, even if Purolator fixed the issue.

 

[BHopkins]

Originally Posted by sloinker
So, if I get what the gist of the answers are. Fram Ultra is great. Original Orange can is also probably OK. This saves me time and money as I usually buy some oil at walmart but end up going to O'reilly's to buy the Wix filters. I can save the time and $ buying fram Ultra from now on. Does this hold true to the cartridge filters too?



Perhaps a better summary is that:
BITOG members do a lot of research. That research has shown that:
The Fram Ultra is one of the best filers on the market, and probably the best bang for the dollar in a premium filter.
Many other filters that others think are great, fall way short of their historical reputation.
BITOG members LOVE data. Real data. Not what the guy at the parts store told them.

It's all about research and data here. Ok, and some opinion. But mostly research and data.