Why Royal Enfield is Destroying Harley Davidson

[alarmguy]

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We all know less people are riding and buying motorcycles across every brand. Unless kids return to the outside that will never change.

..

First, great post. Here is the stand out of it all.^^

The best thread on any forum like this is the Harley Davidson bashing thread. Most of them never even sat on one and the other part is trashing another man’s possessions.

Most fail to acknowledge 74% of the heavyweight cruisers sold in this country are Harley Davidson’s. That is up from 50%.
They still fail to acknowledge all foreign manufacturers have completely failed in the heavy weight cruiser market.

However, the bottom line is the young today have other interests other than motorcycles, as well as a dozen other activities is no longer in favor.
pretty much anything even considered dangerous their parents will not allow. And you can bet that goes for a girlfriend’s parents too.

2014 Road King

 

[alarmguy]

It is time for more Harley pictures ?
2017 Road King.

This one is gone. I'm getting old. Downsized to a Heritage Softail.

View attachment 328522

Great colors!

 

[thastinger]

I've had at least one HD continuously for the last 36 years but I've never had a rubber mount motor, the rubber mounts were the beginning of the end to me.

IDC what happens to Harley, the parts will always be out there, build your own if you want.

 

[Ronsant]

It's nothing new. I've always found it ridiculous. Some riders seem incapable of appreciating any bike which isn't exactly like the one they ride.

As I said earlier in this thread:

It’s too bad, because those of us on two wheels are such a minority to begin with. Why segment such a small population further?

 

[SOUNDMAN5000]

I've had at least one HD continuously for the last 36 years but I've never had a rubber mount motor, the rubber mounts were the beginning of the end to me.

IDC what happens to Harley, the parts will always be out there, build your own if you want.

I get it, I am on my 30th year with a Harley in my garage. I still have my 1997 ( NO rubber mount ) I purchased new in 97, I felt as you, VERY strong about NO rubber engine mounts, I felt the same when I watched fuel injection replaced the carb. I felt the same at the end of the EVO, I felt the same when I started to see factory oil coolers on a bike, then water cooled and especially when the Analog gauges were replaced with a color TV on the dash and a radio, I hate the idea of a sound system on a bike, all I need to listen to is a cam and a good exhaust!

But during all that the wife one day said "you should buy a new bike but NEVER sell your old one" Thats the push I needed... So, I purchased a new Street Glide in 2023, Last year for the analog gauges and oil not water cooled. 26 years between my old bike and new, I was what one may call "set in my ways" I LOVED my classic 1997 Heritage didn't like anything about the new bikes.

However, a funny VERY unexpected thing happened shortly after a few miles and a few days with the new bike... I found I LIKED IT!
I can actually say I LOVE the newer bike and all it brings to the table.

With buying a new modern bike it was just like 30 years ago as everything was new, I once jetted carbs now its all in a tune.
Deciding on new exhaust, cam. just as much fun as 30 years ago and 2x as much to now learn!

Was perfect timing as the kids are now at age so the wife and I can ride more long distance and as a now 30 year older aging man with things that hurt, I kinda like the ride quality of the newer bike! I recently had the thought in part because of the rubber engine mount plus all the other modern items I now find I ride longer, further and the wife and I experience more adventure on that new bike
Kinda all reignited my passion for riding, and buying new crap for a bike again...

What worked for me was now owning a few Harley motorcycles both old and new, My old bike ain't going anyplace but 9.999% of the time when I walk to the garage and I have a choice what bike do I ride? I hop on the new bike. It is simply ( to me ) a better riding machine rubber mounts and all.

Harley IMO did well keeping the "Core Vibe" I love so much but when I started the new bike for the first time after winter I said to the wife, and to think I did not embrace fuel injection...

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE OLD SCHOOL, I still enjoy turning that engine idle speed screw down ( yes, with a flat head not a computer ) on the old S&S Super carb so my classic with a cam lobbing along with that hard mount motor will make me see double vision as my eye balls shake and the mirrors loosen from all the glorious V-Twin vibration. Loctite is a must! I have a BIG garage, So I got all kinda room for both old a new toys!

 

[KrisZ]

Nothing like a HD bashing thread. I know I dished out plenty about them, but at the same time I want to own one at one point as I like all motorcycles.

I’m currently looking at this nice looking Fatboy. It’s either a Fatboy or a Road King for me.

 

[02SE]

Nothing like a HD bashing thread. I know I dished out plenty about them, but at the same time I want to own one at one point as I like all motorcycles.

I’m currently looking at this nice looking Fatboy. It’s either a Fatboy or a Road King for me.

View attachment 328561

It's thankfully only a few bashing. In my experience people that do so usually don't even ride. I say ride what you want.

I tried to buy last summer, but the dealer failed to follow through. We'll see if they are more interested today, We're looking at a Road Glide. It has some more power, liquid-cooled heads, and modern electronics and gauges over the FLHTCUI I used to own.

 

[crashz]

The crappiest Harley ever made is better than the bike I own now. Which is none. The wife is terrified of bikes since a friends son was killed on one. So I have to live vicariously through others. I miss riding.

 

[SOUNDMAN5000]

It’s too bad, because those of us on two wheels are such a minority to begin with. Why segment such a small population further?

I can honestly say, I can find "something" to appreciate in EVERY brand of motorcycle. I would hate to see ANY motorcycle company vanish from the market as IMO the world is a better place with lots of bikes in it. I miss Victory, never owned one but were very cool bikes.

The ONLY bikes that come to mind that rubbed me the wrong way and it was not the bikes fault. So may of this late 90's metric cruiser owners would first thing, install a Harley style 3rd party exhaust and would then remove the baffles.. So many of those overhead cam engines sounded like pure crap without a proper exhaust and IMO were better off left unmolested...

For now my brand of choice is Harley but as strange as it sounds, my biker clothing is a mix but heavy Indian!
Main reason I think the Indian clothing is made very well and I can find it at times 70% off so I ride a Harley with a riding Jacket with a big letters Indian across the back...
Its funny watching reactions as it like some unwritten rule one must be loyal to one brand, I'll always have a Harley, Lord willing as I like Harley but I got room for a Indian, a new Buell and a Honda Gold Wing, heck I would take a Royal Enfield and a Honda Grom for around town as I can find "cool" in those little bikes!

But sadly its lack of money keeping me limited to one bike brand...

 

[Ranger83]

///
The best thread on any forum like this is the Harley Davidson bashing thread. Most of them never even sat on one and the other part is trashing another man’s possessions.

Most fail to acknowledge 74% of the heavyweight cruisers sold in this country are Harley Davidson’s. That is up from 50%.
They still fail to acknowledge all foreign manufacturers have completely failed in the heavy weight cruiser market.

However, the bottom line is the young today have other interests other than motorcycles, as well as a dozen other activities is no longer in favor.
///

Yes, HD sales are down and they increased their U.S. market share in that segment, so what does that tell you about the segment?

Had this for a while and did a lot of work to the suspension to try and make it handle. The typical HD owner completely ignored it. The young sport bike owners went absolutely nuts over it. But didn’t ride it much. School teacher bought it.

The city is full of scooter riders and e-bikes are booming, but that does not seem to be translating into motorcycle sales. We’ll see.

 

[KrisZ]

There is not a motorcycle brand out there without issues. Honda's last 10 years or so have been nothing but a decline offerings and innovation. Most of their current line up is commuter special type variety with either a parallel twin or inline four engines. The biggest things they can market these days are the DCT and e-clutch

 

[Ronsant]

The crappiest Harley ever made is better than the bike I own now. Which is none. The wife is terrified of bikes since a friends son was killed on one. So I have to live vicariously through others. I miss riding.

Maybe she would be OK with a CT 125. 8 hp, goes 55 mph, semi auto - have to shift but no clutch. I have 3 bikes, the other two are “full size” but this one goes down trails and dirt roads. Tons of fun, over 100 mpg, milk crate holds 2 bags of grocery.
It’s so cute, how can she say no?

 

[kballowe]

Maybe she would be OK with a CT 125. 8 hp, goes 55 mph, semi auto - have to shift but no clutch. I have 3 bikes, the other two are “full size” but this one goes down trails and dirt roads. Tons of fun, over 100 mpg, milk crate holds 2 bags of grocery.
It’s so cute, how can she say no?

View attachment 328635

Look, if you're gonna buy a Honda then you gotta get Honda RED !!!

 

[Urshurak776]

I had a 2005 Harley Davidson Sportster (Roadster 1200R.) Loved riding it. Sold it after I retired from the Navy. Maybe I will get another one, some day.

It's disheartening to me the state of HD currently. I hope things change.

Edit: Used, mostly, NAPA Synthetic 15W-50 in the sump! A ton of Harley riders I knew used that. Except for Charlie. He ran Havoline 20W-50 conventional. You could get that back in the day for like $2 a quart, or even less.

 

[Ronsant]

I had a 2005 Harley Davidson Sportster (Roadster 1200R.) Loved riding it. Sold it after I retired from the Navy. Maybe I will get another one, some day.

It's disheartening to me the state of HD currently. I hope things change.

Edit: Used, mostly, NAPA Synthetic 15W-50 in the sump! A ton of Harley riders I knew used that. Except for Charlie. He ran Havoline 20W-50 conventional. You could get that back in the day for like $2 a quart, or even less.

That Roadster was a super cool bike. If I remember correctly, they were only sold for a few years. Very little to no advertising in the cycle mags at the time. I wonder if they will not be valuable at some point due to the scarcity and what a good bike they are.

 

[alarmguy]

A dose of reality -

Harley Davidson 2025 USA sales = 132,500
Royal Enfield 2025 USA sales = 9,000 exported to the USA (not sure if they all sold or not)
That is a difference of 123,500 more Harleys sold.


I will say, the Royal Enfields look cool. They are massively improving sales/growing in the budget small engine motorcycle market outside of the USA. Which leads us back to these are not heavy interstate cruisers, they are small lower priced $6,000 motorcycles that will affect the Chinese and Asian brands. Also as previously mentioned, that is a very strong market, even here. This has nothing to do with Harley Davidson offerings.

It's like saying the Chevy Spark is killing BMW in automobile sales.

 

[cptbarkey]

Why is HD suffering?
There were loads of Royal Enfields on the streets in Bengaluru during my visits.
They are all over the countryside.
There’s a sea of affordable ones on Marketplace right now.

Also, 12 day international vacations like this one in Morocco.

 

[KrisZ]

Royal Enfield nor any other motorcycle company will not destroy HD. If anything HD will destroy itself with poor management.
I just checked out their offerings and they have a decent amount of choices. You can have a Nighster for $10k. And they still have Pan America, which is cool.

 

[TacoFergie]

I don't think Royal Enfield is taking the motorcycle scene by storm or taking any appreciable business away from Harley. If someone wants a Harley, they aren't going to consider anything else and there's still plenty of people like that out there. I have only seen a handful of Enfield's in my area, new or old. Though I do live in NW Iowa, not a huge city. If any brand is up and coming, it's CF Moto, just not in the cruiser world. For new riders that want a new bike, it's hard to beat. Their most expensive bike isn't even $11k and they are making some attractive bikes that appeal to the younger crowd. They are also innovating and releasing new products faster than any other brand. A close friend of mine that sells and services CF Moto (alongside BMW and Beta) has seen very few issues with CF Moto bikes.

Rant - My distain toward Harley isn't because of the motorcycle, it's because of 80% of the people that ride them that I have met or been around. Many of them have an elitist attitude. Even my own uncle who rides Harley "because it's American made" casts shame towards my Victory because he thought it was "foreign". Despite telling him it was built in Iowa by Polaris (the same state we both live in), he still thinks it's lesser than. Ironically he is also quite proud of his Polaris being US built and at the time headquarters in IA, some skulls are just too thick. lol He's also the type that has a Harley wardrobe likely worth as much as my bike and there's plenty more people I know like that. Half the Harley riders in my area don't wave unless it's another Harley and I've even seen some start to put out an arm to wave only to retract it once they notice I'm not on a Harley or the group I'm in doesn't have a Harley, that tells me everything I need to know about what type of person that is. I don't get that from any other riders on other brands. Then you have the Harley bros that have off-road lights for a headlight blinding everyone on the road, rev all over town, take off from stop lights like a bat outta hell thinking their big and bad. But then I line up next to a guy like that at a stop light and they take off like they have eggs on their lap. The few guys like that I have raced, freaking hate when they get beat by a big old non-Harley bagger. lol I don't care if I win or loose, I just like having fun and I'll give credit to a fast bike no matter the brand! The Harley alphabet soup is funny too, FLCHTUCIABCD or whatever. What even is that? Wouldn't Road Glide or Street Glide be easier to say? Sorry, rant over. lol

Now that's not every HD rider I've met. The few people I work with that have them and the HD riders I've met while on motorcycle road trips have been fantastic people. They love riding and love to talk with people that enjoy riding. Those are the people I like being around regardless of what they ride. Heck I know a couple people at work that went from Harley to Indian and they can't imagine going back, especially taller riders. One coworker quit a local Veterans MC because the other riders wouldn't let it go after he got an Indian. Again, it's the people, not the brand. But sadly, thats the culture associated with the brand.

Me personally, I don't think new bikes offer anything revolutionary over most 10yr old bikes. The only thing new bikes have over older ones is integrated infotainment and some have electronically adjustable suspension. Which I find the latter would be a nice benefit, but not worth $30k plus IMO. Most 10-15 year old cruisers have ABS, cruise, fuel injection, 6 speed transmission, plenty of power and are plenty reliable all for $10k or less. Get a phone mount and helmet comm system, there's your GPS and music if it doesn't have speakers. Plus if I scratch my 10+ year old bike, it's a lot less painful than a new bike.

Here's my lowly old 2012 Victory Cross Country. I know it's inferior to Harley in many was since it doesn't vibrate, only has one hole for oil, doesn't leak said oil, sticks out from the rows of bikes everywhere it goes, has too many cams, doesn't have push rods, has too much leg room, has too much suspension travel and the bags/trunk are just too big. lol

Heck the old girl even gets used as a tool hauler at times (tools worth more than the bike lol) and goes grocery shopping often. The amount of storage on this thing is insane. At one time I think had the most combined storage on a motorcycle, may still hold that title?

 

[troop]

I don't think Royal Enfield is taking the motorcycle scene by storm or taking any appreciable business away from Harley. If someone wants a Harley, they aren't going to consider anything else and there's still plenty of people like that out there. I have only seen a handful of Enfield's in my area, new or old. Though I do live in NW Iowa, not a huge city. If any brand is up and coming, it's CF Moto, just not in the cruiser world. For new riders that want a new bike, it's hard to beat. Their most expensive bike isn't even $11k and they are making some attractive bikes that appeal to the younger crowd. They are also innovating and releasing new products faster than any other brand. A close friend of mine that sells and services CF Moto (alongside BMW and Beta) has seen very few issues with CF Moto bikes.

Rant - My distain toward Harley isn't because of the motorcycle, it's because of 80% of the people that ride them that I have met or been around. Many of them have an elitist attitude. Even my own uncle who rides Harley "because it's American made" casts shame towards my Victory because he thought it was "foreign". Despite telling him it was built in Iowa by Polaris (the same state we both live in), he still thinks it's lesser than. Ironically he is also quite proud of his Polaris being US built and at the time headquarters in IA, some skulls are just too thick. lol He's also the type that has a Harley wardrobe likely worth as much as my bike and there's plenty more people I know like that. Half the Harley riders in my area don't wave unless it's another Harley and I've even seen some start to put out an arm to wave only to retract it once they notice I'm not on a Harley or the group I'm in doesn't have a Harley, that tells me everything I need to know about what type of person that is. I don't get that from any other riders on other brands. Then you have the Harley bros that have off-road lights for a headlight blinding everyone on the road, rev all over town, take off from stop lights like a bat outta hell thinking their big and bad. But then I line up next to a guy like that at a stop light and they take off like they have eggs on their lap. The few guys like that I have raced, freaking hate when they get beat by a big old non-Harley bagger. lol I don't care if I win or loose, I just like having fun and I'll give credit to a fast bike no matter the brand! The Harley alphabet soup is funny too, FLCHTUCIABCD or whatever. What even is that? Wouldn't Road Glide or Street Glide be easier to say? Sorry, rant over. lol

Now that's not every HD rider I've met. The few people I work with that have them and the HD riders I've met while on motorcycle road trips have been fantastic people. They love riding and love to talk with people that enjoy riding. Those are the people I like being around regardless of what they ride. Heck I know a couple people at work that went from Harley to Indian and they can't imagine going back, especially taller riders. One coworker quit a local Veterans MC because the other riders wouldn't let it go after he got an Indian. Again, it's the people, not the brand. But sadly, thats the culture associated with the brand.

Me personally, I don't think new bikes offer anything revolutionary over most 10yr old bikes. The only thing new bikes have over older ones is integrated infotainment and some have electronically adjustable suspension. Which I find the latter would be a nice benefit, but not worth $30k plus IMO. Most 10-15 year old cruisers have ABS, cruise, fuel injection, 6 speed transmission, plenty of power and are plenty reliable all for $10k or less. Get a phone mount and helmet comm system, there's your GPS and music if it doesn't have speakers. Plus if I scratch my 10+ year old bike, it's a lot less painful than a new bike.

Here's my lowly old 2012 Victory Cross Country. I know it's inferior to Harley in many was since it doesn't vibrate, only has one hole for oil, doesn't leak said oil, sticks out from the rows of bikes everywhere it goes, has too many cams, doesn't have push rods, has too much leg room, has too much suspension travel and the bags/trunk are just too big. lol

View attachment 328898

Heck the old girl even gets used as a tool hauler at times (tools worth more than the bike lol) and goes grocery shopping often. The amount of storage on this thing is insane. At one time I think had the most combined storage on a motorcycle, may still hold that title?

View attachment 328899

Sold Victory's, then Indians for a few years after retiring. The Victory's were superior bikes.