Why? Ridgeline PU.
- Thread starter AirgunSavant
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Another reason would be that Honda sees a market for this minivan based FWD pickup, just as they did with their FWD minivan based SUV.
It's FWD? OK, that's clearly a sad and stupid thing to put in a truck package, whoever its aimed at. But I suppose if the customer doesn't know that it probably won't matter to them anyway.
Another reason would be that Honda sees a market for this minivan based FWD pickup, just as they did with their FWD minivan based SUV.
It's FWD? OK, that's clearly a sad and stupid thing to put in a truck package, whoever its aimed at. But I suppose if the customer doesn't know that it probably won't matter to them anyway.
The practicality of the Ridgeline is exactly why it has always been a sales loser.
In America, the pickup is as much an emotional purchase as it is a practical one for a lot of people.
Hondas usually do little to inspire any emotion, and making the "practical" choice is not terribly exciting.
A lot of people want a vehicle they truly enjoy owning, and for most, the Ridgeline just is not it.
Further hurting things is the sorry fuel economy.
The realm of practical vehicles driven by practical people is one that the market has always run away from. That's why the station wagon is dead, and the minivan was a subject of flight to the SUV market.
The part that was lost in translation with Honda is that people who decide they don't need a pickup truck just buy a car, SUV, or minivan instead.
Honda is catering to people who guffaw at the idea of getting into a pickup truck, but somehow have enough hardcore reservations that they just can't do without an open bed. Seriously?
It's a niche of a niche market.
In America, the pickup is as much an emotional purchase as it is a practical one for a lot of people.
Hondas usually do little to inspire any emotion, and making the "practical" choice is not terribly exciting.
A lot of people want a vehicle they truly enjoy owning, and for most, the Ridgeline just is not it.
Further hurting things is the sorry fuel economy.
The realm of practical vehicles driven by practical people is one that the market has always run away from. That's why the station wagon is dead, and the minivan was a subject of flight to the SUV market.
The part that was lost in translation with Honda is that people who decide they don't need a pickup truck just buy a car, SUV, or minivan instead.
Honda is catering to people who guffaw at the idea of getting into a pickup truck, but somehow have enough hardcore reservations that they just can't do without an open bed. Seriously?
It's a niche of a niche market.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
What a timid, wimpy, rabbit looking front fascia. In the pickup truck world, that thing looks like prey.
And thats the issue with midern pickups. I dont care for the wimpy look of the ridgeline, but the obnoxiously large front endson modern pickups scream gaudy, idiotic compensation for other shortcomings and to attempt to look like a bigrig... what was conservative and handsome has become obnoxiously large and silly looking.
Nothing obnoxiously large about them. The heat exchangers necessary to allow those vehicles to operate at their capacity exceed the size of the noses of these trucks and have to slanted, stacked, and otherwise jammed into the front ends.
Even with heat exchangers the size of beds, some trucks, like the Duramax are known own to run on the hot side under load.
Look at the diagrams of these trucks and you'll see the noses should actually be twice as large without all of the cramming.
And yet...my 16-ton GVWR work truck manages to fit all the required heat exchangers, with a grille opening SMALLER than the current generation of cartoon pickups! Not only is the radiator vertical, the aftercooler does not even overlap it!
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
What a timid, wimpy, rabbit looking front fascia. In the pickup truck world, that thing looks like prey.
And thats the issue with midern pickups. I dont care for the wimpy look of the ridgeline, but the obnoxiously large front endson modern pickups scream gaudy, idiotic compensation for other shortcomings and to attempt to look like a bigrig... what was conservative and handsome has become obnoxiously large and silly looking.
Nothing obnoxiously large about them. The heat exchangers necessary to allow those vehicles to operate at their capacity exceed the size of the noses of these trucks and have to slanted, stacked, and otherwise jammed into the front ends.
Even with heat exchangers the size of beds, some trucks, like the Duramax are known own to run on the hot side under load.
Look at the diagrams of these trucks and you'll see the noses should actually be twice as large without all of the cramming.
And yet...my 16-ton GVWR work truck manages to fit all the required heat exchangers, with a grille opening SMALLER than the current generation of cartoon pickups! Not only is the radiator vertical, the aftercooler does not even overlap it!
JTK
$100 Site Donor 2025
If the original Ridgeline was a sales looser, why would Honda roll another one out? IMO, the Ridgeline is way more of a practical pickup than the pickups many "truck" owner's drive.
It's what people get when they want a Honda as a family vehicle, an Accord is too small, but they don't want an Odyssey. Or what people who need to occasionally haul/tow things get when that vehicle needs to fit into an older garage.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Honda is catering to people who guffaw at the idea of getting into a pickup truck, but somehow have enough hardcore reservations that they just can't do without an open bed. Seriously?
That statement fits me perfectly. Yes, I want the utility of an open bed. I want to load lawn mowers or out-sized pieces of furniture. I want to load bulk or bags of mulch in the bag. I want to haul leaves to the dump. I won't do that in the back of the MDX, sorry. I have a small utility trailer, but it's parked behind the house and used for things that just won't go easily up into a pickup bed, and it's not convenient to use all the time. So I'm left with wanting the utility of a truck.
In addition to a truck bed, I want a cabin that's designed around carrying people. I don't want to deal with "suicide doors" or other such concessions to size. I want a real passenger cabin, one that's comfortable and suited for doing what I do most with my vehicle: commuting or toting the family around. I want it to drive and handle as much like a car as possible (remember: I don't want a truck). I also want it in a compact enough size so that I can easily park it in my standard two-car garage and still have room for the large work bench/shelf at the rear wall (and the garage fridge, etc).
The Ridgeline uniquely fits my desires. I'm not sure of another vehicle that fits my use as well as it does. Tacoma's ride is way too loose and underdamped for me, and the cabin is cramped. The new generation GMC Canyon could be a good fit for me, I don't know; I haven't sampled one. I'm also like Mike: I like to buy my vehicles used, and the previous GMC Canyon was absolutely not a contender for me. I paid under $10k for my Ridgeline used (but it was from family, so that's sort of cheating regarding the price!). The new Canyon might be good for me in another 8-10 years. But, I suspect another Ridgeline would be high on my list, too, to eventually replace the one that I have.
Because of my size requirements, I'm looking at a Tacoma or similar or one of the 4-door fullsize trucks with a 5' bed. I already have a 5' bed -- I don't gain anything in a fullsize truck besides towing capacity that I won't use. And they don't ride or drive nearly as crisply as a Ridgeline does, so I'm giving up a lot of what I want for capability that I don't need and won't use.
I disagree that a Ridgeline is not enjoyable to own. It's obviously a very subjective statement, but the Ridgeline has long been described as "the pickup truck for the driver". That's what it is, to me. It's a vehicle that I enjoy driving tremendously because of its linear and crisp response on the road. It also provides just the amount of utility that I want in a vehicle. It's a perfect balance to my needs, and that's very satisfying.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
It's a niche of a niche market.
It truly is, and I'm grateful that someone's offering something for it. I was hopeful when Dodge previewed it's FWD-based Dakota concept (relevant link), but it seems that that project has been shelved for the time being...perhaps due to the recent relatively low cost of fuel. Ford is bringing the Ranger back to the US, though, and I'm curious to see what that turns out to be.
Honda is catering to people who guffaw at the idea of getting into a pickup truck, but somehow have enough hardcore reservations that they just can't do without an open bed. Seriously?
That statement fits me perfectly. Yes, I want the utility of an open bed. I want to load lawn mowers or out-sized pieces of furniture. I want to load bulk or bags of mulch in the bag. I want to haul leaves to the dump. I won't do that in the back of the MDX, sorry. I have a small utility trailer, but it's parked behind the house and used for things that just won't go easily up into a pickup bed, and it's not convenient to use all the time. So I'm left with wanting the utility of a truck.
In addition to a truck bed, I want a cabin that's designed around carrying people. I don't want to deal with "suicide doors" or other such concessions to size. I want a real passenger cabin, one that's comfortable and suited for doing what I do most with my vehicle: commuting or toting the family around. I want it to drive and handle as much like a car as possible (remember: I don't want a truck). I also want it in a compact enough size so that I can easily park it in my standard two-car garage and still have room for the large work bench/shelf at the rear wall (and the garage fridge, etc).
The Ridgeline uniquely fits my desires. I'm not sure of another vehicle that fits my use as well as it does. Tacoma's ride is way too loose and underdamped for me, and the cabin is cramped. The new generation GMC Canyon could be a good fit for me, I don't know; I haven't sampled one. I'm also like Mike: I like to buy my vehicles used, and the previous GMC Canyon was absolutely not a contender for me. I paid under $10k for my Ridgeline used (but it was from family, so that's sort of cheating regarding the price!). The new Canyon might be good for me in another 8-10 years. But, I suspect another Ridgeline would be high on my list, too, to eventually replace the one that I have.
Because of my size requirements, I'm looking at a Tacoma or similar or one of the 4-door fullsize trucks with a 5' bed. I already have a 5' bed -- I don't gain anything in a fullsize truck besides towing capacity that I won't use. And they don't ride or drive nearly as crisply as a Ridgeline does, so I'm giving up a lot of what I want for capability that I don't need and won't use.
I disagree that a Ridgeline is not enjoyable to own. It's obviously a very subjective statement, but the Ridgeline has long been described as "the pickup truck for the driver". That's what it is, to me. It's a vehicle that I enjoy driving tremendously because of its linear and crisp response on the road. It also provides just the amount of utility that I want in a vehicle. It's a perfect balance to my needs, and that's very satisfying.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
It's a niche of a niche market.
It truly is, and I'm grateful that someone's offering something for it. I was hopeful when Dodge previewed it's FWD-based Dakota concept (relevant link), but it seems that that project has been shelved for the time being...perhaps due to the recent relatively low cost of fuel. Ford is bringing the Ranger back to the US, though, and I'm curious to see what that turns out to be.
As an addition to my post above, the "real truck" I liked the most was the '97 Dodge Dakota I once owned. It was a perfect size for me, the cabin was designed as a people's cabin, it was widely regarded as the most car-like to drove of any "real truck" (and I agree that it was). It was a good fit. The one I owned was a 2-door extended cab, so it didn't work well as a family vehicle. I sold it after buying my small utility trailer, and had a series of sedans and a small SUV. Finding that the utility trailer was not always convenient to use, and that I wanted to get back into a truck, I considered my options. My generation of Dakota ended in 2004, and finding that generation of truck in the configuration I wanted in the condition I wanted was nearly impossible. I didn't like the new generation of the Dakota due to the interior quality and design. So it was out.
I contacted my brother (who owned my Ridgeline) and asked if he was ever thinking of selling it, and the rest is history. But the Ridgeline wasn't my only option...but it was one of a VERY few options.
If Dodge comes back out with a Dakota-sized vehicle, again, either unibody or body-on-frame (I don't generally care either way; they both bring certain advantages to the table), I would absolutely consider it. I've always liked the 97-04 Dakota, and think they really ruined that formula with the 2005+ models. They tried to make it "trucky", where it once was a smoothly-styled car-like truck.
I contacted my brother (who owned my Ridgeline) and asked if he was ever thinking of selling it, and the rest is history. But the Ridgeline wasn't my only option...but it was one of a VERY few options.
If Dodge comes back out with a Dakota-sized vehicle, again, either unibody or body-on-frame (I don't generally care either way; they both bring certain advantages to the table), I would absolutely consider it. I've always liked the 97-04 Dakota, and think they really ruined that formula with the 2005+ models. They tried to make it "trucky", where it once was a smoothly-styled car-like truck.
Hokie, can you compare vehicle ingress? I mean, I sit down into my Camry's, and would expect to do so in any sedan. MIL has a 2004-ish CRV and I basically slide into it--want to say the seat is roughly normal rump height. But to get into my Tundra I climb up into.
Now none of them are an issue to me. But I had to get running boards quite quickly for my Tundra, as my kids had problems climbing in (and to be truthful, I use them too). How do your kids climb into the Ridge, as compared to your prior CRV? I'm guessing it's pretty similar, but not as "hard" as for a traditional truck.
TBH a Ridgeline probably better meets my wants and needs than my Tundra. Once I ditched the notion of a travel trailer this truck is kinda overkill. A minivan would be best-est, but I do like the removed cargo compartment for hauling trash to the dump, and it's got no carpet to clean, and doubles as a work bench at times. Its heft though is felt every time I park it (along with every time I fill up), and its primitive part time 4WD system is, well, primitive. I just don't like timing belts and transverse V6's; but I suppose I could just pay someone to deal with routine work (plus if I just didn't drive it so much it wouldn't be an issue).
Now none of them are an issue to me. But I had to get running boards quite quickly for my Tundra, as my kids had problems climbing in (and to be truthful, I use them too). How do your kids climb into the Ridge, as compared to your prior CRV? I'm guessing it's pretty similar, but not as "hard" as for a traditional truck.
TBH a Ridgeline probably better meets my wants and needs than my Tundra. Once I ditched the notion of a travel trailer this truck is kinda overkill. A minivan would be best-est, but I do like the removed cargo compartment for hauling trash to the dump, and it's got no carpet to clean, and doubles as a work bench at times. Its heft though is felt every time I park it (along with every time I fill up), and its primitive part time 4WD system is, well, primitive. I just don't like timing belts and transverse V6's; but I suppose I could just pay someone to deal with routine work (plus if I just didn't drive it so much it wouldn't be an issue).
Originally Posted By: supton
Hokie, can you compare vehicle ingress? I mean, I sit down into my Camry's, and would expect to do so in any sedan. MIL has a 2004-ish CRV and I basically slide into it--want to say the seat is roughly normal rump height. But to get into my Tundra I climb up into.
Ingress on a Ridgeline is close to straight in for me (who wears 32 length slacks). Like the '04 CR-V with which you have experience, my '08 CR-V was a straight-in slide. I loved that aspect of it. Our MDX is pretty much a straight-in slide. The Ridgeline is just a hair taller, but it's not by much. I step into it with my right foot and just push off my left foot and slide into the chair. Leather helps. Another reason I'm a fan of leather. Different topic, though.
Kids can get in easily. They're 11 and 8. They can't slide in like us adults can, but they use the door arm rests to push up.
One small pleasure -- with the sunroof open and the rear power sliding window open, you get a very pleasant breeze through the whole cabin, but it's really no louder than with all the windows closed. Honda has a chime in place if you turn the ignition off and have the rear sliding window open. They claim that enough people forgot that window was open because of how quiet it is during testing. The kids love peeking out the back with that window open, especially if someone we know is following. A bit of a hide and seek game to pass the time on the road.
Hokie, can you compare vehicle ingress? I mean, I sit down into my Camry's, and would expect to do so in any sedan. MIL has a 2004-ish CRV and I basically slide into it--want to say the seat is roughly normal rump height. But to get into my Tundra I climb up into.
Ingress on a Ridgeline is close to straight in for me (who wears 32 length slacks). Like the '04 CR-V with which you have experience, my '08 CR-V was a straight-in slide. I loved that aspect of it. Our MDX is pretty much a straight-in slide. The Ridgeline is just a hair taller, but it's not by much. I step into it with my right foot and just push off my left foot and slide into the chair. Leather helps. Another reason I'm a fan of leather. Different topic, though.
Kids can get in easily. They're 11 and 8. They can't slide in like us adults can, but they use the door arm rests to push up.
One small pleasure -- with the sunroof open and the rear power sliding window open, you get a very pleasant breeze through the whole cabin, but it's really no louder than with all the windows closed. Honda has a chime in place if you turn the ignition off and have the rear sliding window open. They claim that enough people forgot that window was open because of how quiet it is during testing. The kids love peeking out the back with that window open, especially if someone we know is following. A bit of a hide and seek game to pass the time on the road.
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
And yet...my 16-ton GVWR work truck manages to fit all the required heat exchangers, with a grille opening SMALLER than the current generation of cartoon pickups! Not only is the radiator vertical, the aftercooler does not even overlap it!
Name the year/make/model, and I'll take the measurements of the surface area myself.
And yet...my 16-ton GVWR work truck manages to fit all the required heat exchangers, with a grille opening SMALLER than the current generation of cartoon pickups! Not only is the radiator vertical, the aftercooler does not even overlap it!
Name the year/make/model, and I'll take the measurements of the surface area myself.
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
And yet...my 16-ton GVWR work truck manages to fit all the required heat exchangers, with a grille opening SMALLER than the current generation of cartoon pickups! Not only is the radiator vertical, the aftercooler does not even overlap it!
And yet...my 16-ton GVWR work truck manages to fit all the required heat exchangers, with a grille opening SMALLER than the current generation of cartoon pickups! Not only is the radiator vertical, the aftercooler does not even overlap it!
I remember the first gen Dodge Rams with side by side radiators and AC Condensers. Seemed very efficient. They also did that in the old Caravans, others.
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
2012 Freightliner M2. And again: the radiator and aftercooler have NO overlkap.
Freightliner M2? LOL. Seriously?
The M2 has more surface area for air to enter the heat exchangers than any of the 1-ton trucks. The 1-ton trucks just have their air intakes spread out differently, with little else to use for cooling but the grille itself.
I'm amazed that I have to explain this, but the M2 has a 3 foot tall radiator. I'm surprised you haven't put it together already that the cooling area would be spread according to height, rather than width.
Notice how in that pic ramblejam posted that you see the M2 has a grille, another grille beneath that grille, and then a big gaping maw in the front bumper, as opposed to the relative slits in the other trucks? The M2 has spread out its cooling through two grilles above the bumper, and a gaping maw in the bumper itself. That bumper inlet is huge compared to the relative slits of the other trucks in that picture.
At least two of those other trucks are also using the grilles for engine air induction, where the M2 has yet another grille on the side of the cowl for that duty.
Even still, I measured the area of the two upper grilles at 1390 Sq. in. That's bigger than the surface area of the box that a 2017 Dodge Ram grille comes in.
No kidding the heat exchangers are not stacked in an M2. Do we need to go over how much more space there is under the cowl of an M2 than a 1-ton? I think that pic right there shows just how much an M2 eclipses a 1-ton in sheer size. The top of its fender well opening is higher than the hood of that GM.
2012 Freightliner M2. And again: the radiator and aftercooler have NO overlkap.
Freightliner M2? LOL. Seriously?
The M2 has more surface area for air to enter the heat exchangers than any of the 1-ton trucks. The 1-ton trucks just have their air intakes spread out differently, with little else to use for cooling but the grille itself.
I'm amazed that I have to explain this, but the M2 has a 3 foot tall radiator. I'm surprised you haven't put it together already that the cooling area would be spread according to height, rather than width.
Notice how in that pic ramblejam posted that you see the M2 has a grille, another grille beneath that grille, and then a big gaping maw in the front bumper, as opposed to the relative slits in the other trucks? The M2 has spread out its cooling through two grilles above the bumper, and a gaping maw in the bumper itself. That bumper inlet is huge compared to the relative slits of the other trucks in that picture.
At least two of those other trucks are also using the grilles for engine air induction, where the M2 has yet another grille on the side of the cowl for that duty.
Even still, I measured the area of the two upper grilles at 1390 Sq. in. That's bigger than the surface area of the box that a 2017 Dodge Ram grille comes in.
No kidding the heat exchangers are not stacked in an M2. Do we need to go over how much more space there is under the cowl of an M2 than a 1-ton? I think that pic right there shows just how much an M2 eclipses a 1-ton in sheer size. The top of its fender well opening is higher than the hood of that GM.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I remember the first gen Dodge Rams with side by side radiators and AC Condensers. Seemed very efficient. They also did that in the old Caravans, others.
The most important part of that was that they were able to separate the demands of the engine and AC system. No having to use a complex electronic clutch fan to make sure the AC condenser would get what it needed, and no reduction of radiator efficiency through placing an AC condenser in front of it. On a really hot day, the engine had only it's own thermal load to deal with.
I remember the first gen Dodge Rams with side by side radiators and AC Condensers. Seemed very efficient. They also did that in the old Caravans, others.
The most important part of that was that they were able to separate the demands of the engine and AC system. No having to use a complex electronic clutch fan to make sure the AC condenser would get what it needed, and no reduction of radiator efficiency through placing an AC condenser in front of it. On a really hot day, the engine had only it's own thermal load to deal with.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I remember the first gen Dodge Rams with side by side radiators and AC Condensers. Seemed very efficient. They also did that in the old Caravans, others.
The most important part of that was that they were able to separate the demands of the engine and AC system. No having to use a complex electronic clutch fan to make sure the AC condenser would get what it needed, and no reduction of radiator efficiency through placing an AC condenser in front of it. On a really hot day, the engine had only it's own thermal load to deal with.
My old first gen Caravan had the ONLY AC that would work well at idle in a 4 banger. I am nearly certain it was the first electric fan vehicle I ever owned as well.
I always figured that setup was why the AC worked so well...
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I remember the first gen Dodge Rams with side by side radiators and AC Condensers. Seemed very efficient. They also did that in the old Caravans, others.
The most important part of that was that they were able to separate the demands of the engine and AC system. No having to use a complex electronic clutch fan to make sure the AC condenser would get what it needed, and no reduction of radiator efficiency through placing an AC condenser in front of it. On a really hot day, the engine had only it's own thermal load to deal with.
My old first gen Caravan had the ONLY AC that would work well at idle in a 4 banger. I am nearly certain it was the first electric fan vehicle I ever owned as well.
I always figured that setup was why the AC worked so well...
It probably was. It took a long time for the auto manufacturers to figure out that a thermal clutch fan by itself is unable to match the demands of an AC system, and longer to do anything about it.
The first thing that started happening was electric helper fans used in conjunction with the thermal clutch fans (like my JGC), and then electronic clutch fans that can ramp up based on AC pressures (like my Navigator).
Of course, many other vehicles simply got electric fans entirely.
The first thing that started happening was electric helper fans used in conjunction with the thermal clutch fans (like my JGC), and then electronic clutch fans that can ramp up based on AC pressures (like my Navigator).
Of course, many other vehicles simply got electric fans entirely.
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
It probably was. It took a long time for the auto manufacturers to figure out that a thermal clutch fan by itself is unable to match the demands of an AC system, and longer to do anything about it.
The first thing that started happening was electric helper fans used in conjunction with the thermal clutch fans (like my JGC), and then electronic clutch fans that can ramp up based on AC pressures (like my Navigator).
Of course, many other vehicles simply got electric fans entirely.
I am familiar with the ECM programming on my sig car. It can adjust fan speed for coolant temp, AC high side pressures, and Transmission fluid temps. Those are two speed fans.
In my 14 RAM there is a tiny little "helper" fan right up front to assist the AC. It may have other duties...
It probably was. It took a long time for the auto manufacturers to figure out that a thermal clutch fan by itself is unable to match the demands of an AC system, and longer to do anything about it.
The first thing that started happening was electric helper fans used in conjunction with the thermal clutch fans (like my JGC), and then electronic clutch fans that can ramp up based on AC pressures (like my Navigator).
Of course, many other vehicles simply got electric fans entirely.
I am familiar with the ECM programming on my sig car. It can adjust fan speed for coolant temp, AC high side pressures, and Transmission fluid temps. Those are two speed fans.
In my 14 RAM there is a tiny little "helper" fan right up front to assist the AC. It may have other duties...
- Status
