Why Not Use HDEO in Everything?
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I am evolving to using HDEO in everything from sports cars to tractors to OPE. Not there yet; have an overhang of other oils to work through. And until someone makes a HDEO 0W-20, I'll have to make an exception for my wife's Honda hybrid.
A HDEO is also a one oil fits all kinda thing if you have any type diesel equipment.
a friend of mine is a small Farmer he keeps a barrel of 15w40 in the shed and that gets used in everything.
a friend of mine is a small Farmer he keeps a barrel of 15w40 in the shed and that gets used in everything.
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Originally Posted By: xxch4osxx
I am going to try the Amsoil HDD 5w30 diesel oil in my truck at the next oil change. Im sure it will work just fine.
It's what I have in my wife's jeep now. It should be around a year in a couple of months.
I am going to try the Amsoil HDD 5w30 diesel oil in my truck at the next oil change. Im sure it will work just fine.
It's what I have in my wife's jeep now. It should be around a year in a couple of months.
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Originally Posted By: daman
A HDEO is also a one oil fits all kinda thing if you have any type diesel equipment.
a friend of mine is a small Farmer he keeps a barrel of 15w40 in the shed and that gets used in everything.
It's easier to use a 15w-40 in a few things that wouldn't normally than it is to use anything else in a diesel.
A HDEO is also a one oil fits all kinda thing if you have any type diesel equipment.
a friend of mine is a small Farmer he keeps a barrel of 15w40 in the shed and that gets used in everything.
It's easier to use a 15w-40 in a few things that wouldn't normally than it is to use anything else in a diesel.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: daman
A HDEO is also a one oil fits all kinda thing if you have any type diesel equipment.
a friend of mine is a small Farmer he keeps a barrel of 15w40 in the shed and that gets used in everything.
It's easier to use a 15w-40 in a few things that wouldn't normally than it is to use anything else in a diesel.
Obviously yes
Originally Posted By: daman
A HDEO is also a one oil fits all kinda thing if you have any type diesel equipment.
a friend of mine is a small Farmer he keeps a barrel of 15w40 in the shed and that gets used in everything.
It's easier to use a 15w-40 in a few things that wouldn't normally than it is to use anything else in a diesel.
Obviously yes
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: xxch4osxx
I am going to try the Amsoil HDD 5w30 diesel oil in my truck at the next oil change. Im sure it will work just fine.
It's what I have in my wife's jeep now. It should be around a year in a couple of months.
Has it seemed to work just as good as any other Amsoil product? My truck doesn't burn any oil, so the higher levels of zinc etc won't be any problem.
Originally Posted By: xxch4osxx
I am going to try the Amsoil HDD 5w30 diesel oil in my truck at the next oil change. Im sure it will work just fine.
It's what I have in my wife's jeep now. It should be around a year in a couple of months.
Has it seemed to work just as good as any other Amsoil product? My truck doesn't burn any oil, so the higher levels of zinc etc won't be any problem.
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: RonH
I'm trying to weigh whether this "poisoning the cat" is anything to worry about. We started cats in what 1975? Oil back then was I think SD or SE rating and I'm sure had some zinc in it although I don't know and for the most part cars burned more oil back then than modern engines and yet we never heard or even thought of the "poison" problem until a couple years ago? Another over engineered "fix" for a problem that doesn't exist thanks to our government goofballs.
Originally Posted By: daman
Well you could plain and simple,and the fear of burning out your cats IMO is false,why? how many dead cats have you heard about back when API was SL/CI?? not many at all.
IMO i'ts not a issue at all! use it and be happy.
We actually agree on something....scary.
Originally Posted By: RonH
I'm trying to weigh whether this "poisoning the cat" is anything to worry about. We started cats in what 1975? Oil back then was I think SD or SE rating and I'm sure had some zinc in it although I don't know and for the most part cars burned more oil back then than modern engines and yet we never heard or even thought of the "poison" problem until a couple years ago? Another over engineered "fix" for a problem that doesn't exist thanks to our government goofballs.
Originally Posted By: daman
Well you could plain and simple,and the fear of burning out your cats IMO is false,why? how many dead cats have you heard about back when API was SL/CI?? not many at all.
IMO i'ts not a issue at all! use it and be happy.
We actually agree on something....scary.
I dislike that they generally have either none or low levels of friction modifiers. Same goes for motorcycle oils meeting JASO MA and MA2.
Originally Posted By: JAG
I dislike that they generally have either none or low levels of friction modifiers. Same goes for motorcycle oils meeting JASO MA and MA2.
Is this true? If so, what are the "consequences", if any? Still much to learn about HDEO's
I dislike that they generally have either none or low levels of friction modifiers. Same goes for motorcycle oils meeting JASO MA and MA2.
Is this true? If so, what are the "consequences", if any? Still much to learn about HDEO's
Originally Posted By: panthermike
Originally Posted By: JAG
I dislike that they generally have either none or low levels of friction modifiers. Same goes for motorcycle oils meeting JASO MA and MA2.
Is this true? If so, what are the "consequences", if any? Still much to learn about HDEO's
No worries jag is referring to Moly i believe,thats what gives wet clutches a fit(could cause slippage)and usually HDEOs have none to little moly in it's add pack,it's replaced or substituted with other additives.
Originally Posted By: JAG
I dislike that they generally have either none or low levels of friction modifiers. Same goes for motorcycle oils meeting JASO MA and MA2.
Is this true? If so, what are the "consequences", if any? Still much to learn about HDEO's
No worries jag is referring to Moly i believe,thats what gives wet clutches a fit(could cause slippage)and usually HDEOs have none to little moly in it's add pack,it's replaced or substituted with other additives.
I've asked this question before...
One way to ask is.... what is the difference (or danger if you will) in a 10w-30 that is API Starbust vs one that is not?
Also as I've noted before, the oils in question are API rated SM secondly, not first. i.e. API CJ4/SM.
The fact that SM is listed second as I understand allows for certain add levels to be higher and if was a pure API SM oil.
For this reason, I wonder about all emission related components in a newer engine with the use of a dual rated CJ4/SM oil.
One way to ask is.... what is the difference (or danger if you will) in a 10w-30 that is API Starbust vs one that is not?
Also as I've noted before, the oils in question are API rated SM secondly, not first. i.e. API CJ4/SM.
The fact that SM is listed second as I understand allows for certain add levels to be higher and if was a pure API SM oil.
For this reason, I wonder about all emission related components in a newer engine with the use of a dual rated CJ4/SM oil.
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dnewton3
Staff member
To the OP's question, there is a simple answer.
It's not a question of why or why not. It's a question about this: do you get your value out of any product you choose to use?
There are many PCMOs that are available for less money, and do a great job. Why spend more $ on a product when the PCMO will do a fine job for many applications? OTOH, I'd love to see a dino HDEO in 5w-30; it would likely be a very servicable product.
However, for most folks, it's a moot point. Since most people change oil well before it's worn out when using PCMO, using HDEO would only heighten the waste if they were to change HDEO oil (typically a more capable and expensive product) at the same interval, thereby wasting even MORE potential oil life-cycle.
There is no perfect oil, any more than a one-size-fits-all vehicle, gun, stereo speaker, tooth brush, golf ball, cell-phone service, motor cycle tire, garden pesticide ...
Make sense?
It's not a question of why or why not. It's a question about this: do you get your value out of any product you choose to use?
There are many PCMOs that are available for less money, and do a great job. Why spend more $ on a product when the PCMO will do a fine job for many applications? OTOH, I'd love to see a dino HDEO in 5w-30; it would likely be a very servicable product.
However, for most folks, it's a moot point. Since most people change oil well before it's worn out when using PCMO, using HDEO would only heighten the waste if they were to change HDEO oil (typically a more capable and expensive product) at the same interval, thereby wasting even MORE potential oil life-cycle.
There is no perfect oil, any more than a one-size-fits-all vehicle, gun, stereo speaker, tooth brush, golf ball, cell-phone service, motor cycle tire, garden pesticide ...
Make sense?
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
To the OP's question, there is a simple answer.
It's not a question of why or why not. It's a question about this: do you get your value out of any product you choose to use?
There are many PCMOs that are available for less money, and do a great job. Why spend more $ on a product when the PCMO will do a fine job for many applications? OTOH, I'd love to see a dino HDEO in 5w-30; it would likely be a very servicable product.
There is no perfect oil, any more than a one-size-fits-all vehicle, gun, stereo speaker, tooth brush, golf ball, cell-phone service, motor cycle tire, garden pesticide ...
Make sense?
Yes...good explanation dnewton. Your point is exactly why I was contemplating the switch. My use of PCMO's seems to be working fine (accoriding to my UOA's), so I figured why switch to an HDEO.
But, then when I see a UOA from one of my vintage cars (where I exclusively use HDEO), and I see through the ceiling high levels of the good additives, I think why not use them in my daily drivers too.
But, if it ain't broken....
To the OP's question, there is a simple answer.
It's not a question of why or why not. It's a question about this: do you get your value out of any product you choose to use?
There are many PCMOs that are available for less money, and do a great job. Why spend more $ on a product when the PCMO will do a fine job for many applications? OTOH, I'd love to see a dino HDEO in 5w-30; it would likely be a very servicable product.
There is no perfect oil, any more than a one-size-fits-all vehicle, gun, stereo speaker, tooth brush, golf ball, cell-phone service, motor cycle tire, garden pesticide ...
Make sense?
Yes...good explanation dnewton. Your point is exactly why I was contemplating the switch. My use of PCMO's seems to be working fine (accoriding to my UOA's), so I figured why switch to an HDEO.
But, then when I see a UOA from one of my vintage cars (where I exclusively use HDEO), and I see through the ceiling high levels of the good additives, I think why not use them in my daily drivers too.
But, if it ain't broken....
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dnewton3
Staff member
Any oil can be your best or worst decision, depending upon how you use it.
I would no more run a dino HDEO for 30k miles in a traditional sump system than I would run a grp IV PAO for 3k miles and dump it; one is dangerously likely to not be doing it's job any longer, the other is a huge waste.
People should understand that the type lubricant selected should be a choice made AFTER you define your desired maintenance plan. Far too often, they get the cart before the horse. They want to pick a fluid, and then cram it into some arbitrary OCI for which they have put no thought into. Then, they wonder why it may not be working as well as they had hoped.
There is nothing wrong with using an HDEO in a gasser; I do it. But, I make sure that I get the value out of it. If you agree that the HDEOs have a more robust add pack, does that not indicate there is potential to be used for a longer duration?
Fundementally, most all lubricants protect to the same level when new and early on in their life-cycle. As they age, they have the additive package get depleted, and the base stock gets contaminated. Premium fluids (HDEOs & synthetics) have more robust add-packs to deal with harsher and/or longer expected exposure.
It's not that HDEOs and synthetics protect "better"; they protect "longer". Look at many HDEO UOAs in diesels, and you'll see what I mean. Much more often than not, a dino HDEO does as well as any synthetic for short to moderate OCI durations. Only when a dino HDEO becomes overwhelmed does a synthetic begin to "out perform" a dino. Until that point is realized, they are both doing a job adequately enough to show no significant difference statistically.
So, applying that logic to PCMO and HDEO dino oils, the same is true. PCMOs work just fine until they become overwhelmed; only after that point would the more robust add-pack of a HDEO have the advantage.
The question becomes this: did you use the fluid you chose long enough to get your value out of it, but not so long as to risk damage from a degraded oil? Here is where UOAs come into play. You can analyze your wear and contamination trends, and predict the end of the healthful lifecycle of your lube. UOAs are an in-direct view of equipment health, but they are a DIRECT view of lubricant health.
If you OCI along the OEM spec'd guidelines with spec'd fluids, your equipment will last a long time. Equipment longevity is a function of your maintenance plan, and is NOT solely a product of the lube you use.
If you don't use ANY product to it's full potential, it's a waste. So, if you choose to use HDEO rather than a PCMO in the application, the real question is: did you get your value out of it?
We've all heard the saying "You get what you pay for." But there is a LARGE caveot to that phrase that no one seems to remember; you only get what you paid for IF you use it all!
I would no more run a dino HDEO for 30k miles in a traditional sump system than I would run a grp IV PAO for 3k miles and dump it; one is dangerously likely to not be doing it's job any longer, the other is a huge waste.
People should understand that the type lubricant selected should be a choice made AFTER you define your desired maintenance plan. Far too often, they get the cart before the horse. They want to pick a fluid, and then cram it into some arbitrary OCI for which they have put no thought into. Then, they wonder why it may not be working as well as they had hoped.
There is nothing wrong with using an HDEO in a gasser; I do it. But, I make sure that I get the value out of it. If you agree that the HDEOs have a more robust add pack, does that not indicate there is potential to be used for a longer duration?
Fundementally, most all lubricants protect to the same level when new and early on in their life-cycle. As they age, they have the additive package get depleted, and the base stock gets contaminated. Premium fluids (HDEOs & synthetics) have more robust add-packs to deal with harsher and/or longer expected exposure.
It's not that HDEOs and synthetics protect "better"; they protect "longer". Look at many HDEO UOAs in diesels, and you'll see what I mean. Much more often than not, a dino HDEO does as well as any synthetic for short to moderate OCI durations. Only when a dino HDEO becomes overwhelmed does a synthetic begin to "out perform" a dino. Until that point is realized, they are both doing a job adequately enough to show no significant difference statistically.
So, applying that logic to PCMO and HDEO dino oils, the same is true. PCMOs work just fine until they become overwhelmed; only after that point would the more robust add-pack of a HDEO have the advantage.
The question becomes this: did you use the fluid you chose long enough to get your value out of it, but not so long as to risk damage from a degraded oil? Here is where UOAs come into play. You can analyze your wear and contamination trends, and predict the end of the healthful lifecycle of your lube. UOAs are an in-direct view of equipment health, but they are a DIRECT view of lubricant health.
If you OCI along the OEM spec'd guidelines with spec'd fluids, your equipment will last a long time. Equipment longevity is a function of your maintenance plan, and is NOT solely a product of the lube you use.
If you don't use ANY product to it's full potential, it's a waste. So, if you choose to use HDEO rather than a PCMO in the application, the real question is: did you get your value out of it?
We've all heard the saying "You get what you pay for." But there is a LARGE caveot to that phrase that no one seems to remember; you only get what you paid for IF you use it all!
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