Why not more hybrids?

Furthermore, all of the battery EVs (and hybrids) on the market are using technology invented/developed by Toyota over the last 35 years.
I know Ford and Toyota had/have a patent sharing agreement since their earlier products and technologies, developed, independently, were so similar.

However, I'd like for you to expand on this statement, if you wouldn't mind, because it seems to me that the Toyota Prius powertrain is, functionally, quite a bit different from say the BMW X5 PHEV powertrain, where an electric motor takes the place of the torque converter.
 
The grid needs a push to change in quite a few places including Tx, CA etc and EVs will shake out and push grid enhancements along. It is simpleton thinking to correlate grid issues now with future ones as if no modifications were to happen.
As we've seen with California, just because they are aware of the issues doesn't mean they are going to go about logically remedying them. It's naive to assume that just because demand increases, reasonable action will be taken.

There is more in play than just the balance of supply and demand, there are penetration targets for certain technologies driven by ideology and advocates who have influence on politicians. There is the fact that the West has lost its way on being able to execute, timely, and on budget, large infrastructure projects like those needed to satisfy the rise in demand. The red tape and regulation that have influenced that aren't just going away either.
 
I know Ford and Toyota had/have a patent sharing agreement since their earlier products and technologies, developed, independently, were so similar.

However, I'd like for you to expand on this statement, if you wouldn't mind, because it seems to me that the Toyota Prius powertrain is, functionally, quite a bit different from say the BMW X5 PHEV powertrain, where an electric motor takes the place of the torque converter.
Since the mid 1980s Toyota has been granted over 80,000 patents for vehicle electrification-related technologies, including 1,331 solid-state battery patents, and 2,753 new patents in 2021 alone. No other manufacturer is even close. It is almost impossible for an auto manufacturer to build a BEV or hybrid vehicle without infringing on some of these patents. In 2019 Toyota granted royalty-free licenses on 23,740 of their patents to other auto manufacturers, and an additional 5,680 patents related to its fuel cell EVs since 2015. These patents include... electric HVAC systems, electric power steering, regenerative braking, electric motor, inverter, control systems, and several other components/systems that BEV manufacturers use.
If you look closely at the new Tundra Hybrid you will notice that the hybrid drive system is very similar to the BMW X5's system, and both of these systems are very similar to what Toyota used in the first generation Prius (which was never sold outside of Japan).
The only reason that Ford and Toyota had/have a patent sharing agreement is because Ford purchased Severinsky's 3 hybrid patents that Toyota was accused of infringing upon. Prior to that, Ford was using Toyota's hybrid patents under license. It was far cheaper to purchase Severinsky's patents and work a deal with Toyota than to pay Toyota's royalties.
 
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Equine Hybrid, not as capable of either of its parents.

The mule is a domestic equine hybrid between a donkey and a horse. It is the offspring of a male donkey (a jack) and a female horse (a mare).


mule.webp
 
Since the mid 1980s Toyota has been granted over 80,000 patents for vehicle electrification-related technologies, including 1,331 solid-state battery patents,
The solid state battery one is interesting, as nobody is producing one yet, but they definitely show promise and have interest from pretty much every major player.
and 2,753 new patents in 2021 alone.
Yes, but that's not exclusive to HEV, PHEV and EV, that's total patents, according to this article:
https://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2022/01/toyota-secures-most-patents-by-automakers-in-2021/
And the top 100 list also includes Ford, GM and Hyundai and Honda.
No other manufacturer is even close. It is almost impossible for an auto manufacturer to build a BEV or hybrid vehicle without infringing on some of these patents. In 2019 Toyota granted royalty-free licenses on 23,740 of their patents to other auto manufacturers, and an additional 5,680 patents related to its fuel cell EVs since 2015.
Interesting. So is Tesla using things Toyota has patented under this patent-fest? The FVEC point is interesting, as there appears to be little interest in this for passenger cars/trucks, so is this more related to things like busses?
If you look closely at the new Tundra Hybrid you will notice that the hybrid drive system is very similar to the BMW X5's system.
Well, I don't think it's BMW's system, I believe it's ZF's. Mazda is now using something similar. Stellantis is also going this route with the RAM and everything else using the ZF8 that BMW has been using.

It would seem that ZF certainly beat Toyota to market with this setup, as they started producing it with HEV and PHEV capability in 2018. Odd that they beat Toyota to market by 4 years if this was Toyota's development? I'm wondering if this is more the result of them just patenting everything under the sun?
https://www.zf.com/products/en/cars/stories/8speedautomatic.html
The only reason that Ford and Toyota had/have a patent sharing agreement is because Ford purchased Severinsky's 3 hybrid patents that Toyota was accused of infringing upon. Prior to that, Ford was using Toyota's hybrid patents under license. It was far cheaper to purchase Severinsky's patents and work a deal with Toyota than to pay Toyota's royalties.
According to Toyota, Ford had more than 100 unique patents on hybrid tech back in 2004 when this agreement was ratified:
https://global.toyota/en/detail/1049108

They entered into a sharing agreement related to NOx and Direct Injection apparently, which allowed Ford access to the "Synergy Drive" tech and Toyota access to Ford's DI and diesel emissions tech.

Of note, this "patent fest" appears to extend beyond Toyota (who is in the leader of patenting everything under the sun). Hyundai has filed more than 184,000 patents and Ford has the most patents on automation:
https://www.news18.com/news/auto/fo...-way-for-electric-vehicles-study-3420803.html
 
I don't need the "man" dictating what the people want. They essentially are picking winners and losers. Let the market decide what it wants or doesn't. I was listening 🎧 to Bill O'Reilly today and he was talking to a guy that's way into this technology and doesn't think it will get anywhere for at least another 50 years at the very least. The hybrid isn't bad but it could use a bit of work. If inflation keeps rising and cost goes up it will be better just to keep what we got and pay less in taxes and tags. Plus unfortunately I see a war starting to look really possible so if it's as big as it might be then the car market is gonna have to hit pause just like when COVID-19 hit and they had to start making breathing machines instead.
 

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Toyota Prius hybrids work really well and you don't have range anxiety issues. I guess some people really don't like having an ICE being used. It's better to have coal power plants supplying the charging?
 
Toyota is very anti EV since thay are heavily invested in hybrids and spent lots in R&D. They just now made after curomenr/investors/peer pressure a crapy that has wheels literally falling off. Almost seems like it was on done on purpose to prove their anti EV mantra in this past years.
I watched a video about some really cool hydrogen engine to provide electricity to power an electric vehicle(no batteries) that was built by Toyota. they showed some really wild new concept engine being tested.
 
They are the perfect bridging technology, and yet the big push seems to be EVs. EVs may be the power source of the future, but it's not practical yet. Hybrids are. I think more people would be less reluctant to go the hybrid route too. I know I would be...
Still wondering why nobody’s made a hybrid that has a small diesel for charging. It would be more efficient under a heavy load, and run at a constant RPM.
 
I watched a video about some really cool hydrogen engine to provide electricity to power an electric vehicle(no batteries) that was built by Toyota. they showed some really wild new concept engine being tested.
Germany just went live with 11 hydrogen powered trains that were made in France instead of diesel powered. Hydrogen is the future not electric
 
They are the perfect bridging technology, and yet the big push seems to be EVs. EVs may be the power source of the future, but it's not practical yet. Hybrids are. I think more people would be less reluctant to go the hybrid route too. I know I would be...
phev have good looking numbers, but in reality people dont care and do not charge much.
so in theory they are worse than normal car. because added weight of batteries...
this is reason why some car tests are about to change. (or changed already)
on ev you cant cheat on not charging.

(running on lpg is -20% co2 instantly. i dont give a :poop: about any battery)
 
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Right, because hydrogen is super cheap to turn into fuel & safe, right?
View attachment 117050
Actually hydrogen fuel cells in vehicles are safe ask Toyota and Hyundai they make hydrogen powered fuel cell vehicles already. Canada uses it for I think some of there buses and is trying to get it developed for trucking industry. I want to say Vancouver has a hydrogen fuel cell refilling station and it takes about 4 or 5 minutes to fill them vs 45 minutes or longer for a plug in. Ford, Daimler and another company went in with Vancouver for the station/facility.
https://www.hyundaiusa.com/us/en/vehicles/nexo
https://www.toyota.com/mirai/
 
California has 48 refueling stations with development coming for more areas as you can refuel and drive on. Here is some more info if curious
https://www.autoweek.com/news/techn...on to those 8285,48 hydrogen fuel cell buses.
Again, what’s the price on those vehicles? Do you even get to own them yet or are they still effectively rentals for people with guilty consciences?

What’s the price for a gallon-equivalent of hydrogen? 48 stations to cover 30 million plus people?

I have no problems pursuing alternatives. I have a BIG problem when government is picking winners & losers with money they’re taking from my pocket, especially when there is no or very low demand for what gvmt is pushing.

If EVs are such a great idea, why is government having to pay people to drive them?
 
Again, what’s the price on those vehicles? Do you even get to own them yet or are they still effectively rentals for people with guilty consciences?

What’s the price for a gallon-equivalent of hydrogen? 48 stations to cover 30 million plus people?

I have no problems pursuing alternatives. I have a BIG problem when government is picking winners & losers with money they’re taking from my pocket, especially when there is no or very low demand for what gvmt is pushing.

If EVs are such a great idea, why is government having to pay people to drive them?
Hydrogen is going for about $16.51 per kilogram according to a Car and Driver article from 2021. The newest Toyota Mirai holds 5.6kg at 70MPa (~10,000psi) and has a rated range of up to 402 miles. And yeah… still basically a rental for people with guilty consciences, but hey Toyota will give you a $15,000 fuel card good for 36 months if you buy or lease one!
 
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Hydrogen is going for about $16.51 per kilogram according to a Car and Driver article from 2021. The newest Toyota Mirai holds 5.6kg at 70MPa (~10,000psi) and has a rated range of up to 402 miles. And yeah… still basically a rental for people with guilty consciences, but hey Toyota will give you a $15,000 fuel card good for 36 months if you buy or lease one!
Cool info… and I’m sure Toyota is giving the fuel card out of the goodness of their hearts, right? No, it’s probably tied to a nice fat check from the government for Toyota.

Do you know (I don’t, I’m asking) what the cost of the Mirai is? I just did some dirty math and the fuel card is, at absolutely maximizing the fuel usage, good for 60k miles. It may make sense for some people, but it makes a whole lot less sense for a majority of them if there were no subsidies.
 
Cool info… and I’m sure Toyota is giving the fuel card out of the goodness of their hearts, right? No, it’s probably tied to a nice fat check from the government for Toyota.

Do you know (I don’t, I’m asking) what the cost of the Mirai is? I just did some dirty math and the fuel card is, at absolutely maximizing the fuel usage, good for 60k miles. It may make sense for some people, but it makes a whole lot less sense for a majority of them if there were no subsidies.
I guess my underlying point is, with nearly everyone I’ve talked to that’s “invested” in alternative fuel sources, whether it’s Priuses, solar panels, or even farmers that allowed wind turbines- 100% of them have essentially said “there’s no way I would have bought that if it wasn’t for the (rebate, tax credit, subsidy)” which proves the true demand for these are limited to those who are extremely fanatical about the technology, extremely well-off, or both. There’s no “hobbyists” who are plunking down 100% of their own cash on this stuff without expecting their neighbors to share their burden of purchase.
 
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