why manufactures doing away with gauges

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
This makes me think of the "Check gauges" light that was in some GM cars during the 80s and 90s. It would light up whenever one of the gauge needles was in the danger zone.


They've done one better. When pretty much any warning light comes on, the 2004 Malibu Classic (and many other GM vehicles) sounds a chime too. It also sounds a chime if the fuel is low or if the coolant temperature is too hot.

Also:

"A warning chime signal will come on if you have left your turn signal on for more than 3/4 mile (1 km)."

 

[PF52]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
LOL at the ford trucks where the oil "gauge" is just a dummy light sender that sends the gauge to midrange as long as pressure is >5 psi.

Actually it's tragic, like how many coolant temp gauges are deadened between 180-215'F so normal swings don't alarm drivers.



I've noticed that too with Fords; all the gauges point at exactly the middle of the range, all the time. Evidently they didn't want people bringing their cars in for warranty work at the slightest twitch of a gauge, no matter how normal it might have been.

My GM cars have always had proper gauges which varied as my temp, oil pressure, electrical load, etc varied. Unfortunately, with this new Cobalt they have chosen to put all of that in the digital readout, forcing me to scroll to see the temp (and there is no oil or volts).

 

[Dave Sherman]

I wish more cars had gauges. Our old GMC van had a voltmeter, and having that was handy for finding out one of the alternator diodes quit, so although the alternator was still functioning, the voltmeter tended to sag when the lights were on. I guess with modern cars and drivers, the manufacturers figure it's expensive to put them on, and the average schmuck wouldn't know what it means anyway. A $0.50 light bulb carries all the information those drivers would need.

If they do, hopefully they won't use British Leyland's example of an oil pressure gauge. My MG has one, but it's all mechanical. The oil pressure line runs all the way from the engine to the gauge, and there's a rubber hose coupling the line to the gauge. Apparently one of the failure modes is that the rubber hose bursts, showering the driver's knees with 4 quarts of hot oil in several seconds. Hey, at least they made sure it got your attention when the oil pressure dropped.

No idiot light needed there.

 

[GMFan]

Our 2003 Chevy Trailblazer EXT has a voltmeter, tachometer, speedometer, oil pressure, gas, and engine temp gauge. I always liked the idea of having an oil pressure on my car but my car has idiot lights. Even that "Change Oil Soon" one.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: css9450
I've noticed that too with Fords; all the gauges point at exactly the middle of the range, all the time.


It appears the fuel gauge is broken.

 

[biomed_eng_2000]

Most gauges that are in cars are not really accurate anyway, i.e. their outputs are not linear.

If you really care about gauges, get a OBD scanner like these:
I have this http://www.autoenginuity.com/products.html
and have good things about this:
http://www.scangauge.com/

 

[artificialist]

My car does that too.
Where the odometer is, a text warning would appear when something went wrong. I had a power steering problem 3 times before the dealer got it right.

 

[BuickGN]

Our old Opel GT has a full set of VDO (stock)guages with a light on each guage in case it goes into the danger zone. Lights are nice, they would've helped in my Buick when everytime I launched the turbo made a weird sound which turned out to be the oil pump sucking air. My eyes were never on the oil pressure guage at launch.

Autometer makes a shift light-like light which will shine in your face if any of the guages go into the danger zone.

 

[Jim 5]

Originally Posted By: GMFan
Our 2003 Chevy Trailblazer EXT has a voltmeter, tachometer, speedometer, oil pressure, gas, and engine temp gauge. I always liked the idea of having an oil pressure on my car but my car has idiot lights. Even that "Change Oil Soon" one.

So do all the 1/2 ton GM pickups. If you buy a 3/4 ton, a denali or an escalade, you get a transmission temp gauge too.

 

[Quest]

IMHO most manufacturers do away with gauges and meters instead installing idiot lights has more to do with customers not understanding them most of the time. Good question to ask people: what do you think if your car is running at 18~22in Hg vacuum? Is your volt meter reading at 13.8V? What would you think their response would be? (*Duh?!?*)

As much as the manufacturers are to blame for (RE: taking away the gauges), ultimately, it's the general public's sheer laziness to blame for: how many avg joe would know how much psi of air (cold) to put into their tires? what weight of motor oil should they be using?, etc.

Now, back to the subject:

Must-haves: vacuum gauge (N/A engine); voltmeter, techo

Nice-to-have: oil temp and coolant temp gauges, scangauge.

Q.

 

[George7941]

When I was buying a new fullsize Pickup in 2006, I checked out GM, Ford, Dodge and Toyota. One big factor in my decision to buy a Sierra was that it came with all the gauges that one would want - Tach, Volt, Coolant Temp and Oil Pressure. Another factor was the availability of a manual tranny. Manuals are not available on the Tundra and the Ford Manuals, sourced from Mazda, are not very good. Also hated the high sides on the box of the Ford, makes it tougher to reach in and gets your clothes dirty in the winter.

 

[ShiningArcanine]

Originally Posted By: M1Accord
the alternator on my corolla died twice in 12 months. first time it was replaced by midas (or so they claimed) and the second time by pep boys. well, i saw that idiot lights (battery and brake) and didn't even know what the heck it was. i drove it to the mall and got stuck there. second time also at the mall and got stuck there after the battery and brake lights stayed on w/ my family. well, i got the alternator from AA and had pep boys put it in so i can rest assure it is good for long time instead of the [censored] 12 months from midas.

but if i had gauges, i could detect that my battery wasn't charging normally and get the problem taken care of. luckily i wasn't on vacation on some distant land.

so i am seriously thinking about getting a jeep grand cherokee (prefer cherokee but they make make them anymore) because it was designed for wrench monkey drivers. and that lifetime warranty take away the worry of having a huge repair bills. also, a long time experience with rental cars (all american) tells me that most cars on the road are very reliable and problems occur either in bad luck, lemon defect, or severely bad design (this is very rare). so i am safe. now i just need to wait 4 years to save enough peso for a ride.


I thought Midas had a lifetime warranty:

http://www.google.com/search?q=midas+war...lient=firefox-a

You should have taken things up with them. By failing to do so, you let them get away with your money. The least you could have done was asked them for a refund or reimbursement for the replacement of the faulty alternator they installed.

As for buying a domestic vehicle, I would advise against it. All mechanical vehicles eventually break down and need repairs. In trying to avoid this fact of life, you will likely place yourself in a situation that is far worse than the one you have now. Rental cars are often brand new and are maintained by the rental car companies. You will not find any old cars in their fleets, as they sell them as used cars after a year or two and buy new ones, passing the problems that will develop to the new owner. They can afford to do this because of all of the money they make off people like you.

Domestic auto manufacturers provide rental car companies with warranty support (or so I read sometime within the last year) and discounts (or so I would expect), presumably because rental car companies give an illusion of reliability as a consequence of their rental cars always being new and maintained. By helping rental car companies maintain this illusion of reliability, automobile manufacturers are essentially fishing and I highly advise that you do not bite. Driving the latest vehicle from x manufacturer as a rental car does not provide a statistically significant sampling that would be indicative of your experience as an owner of that vehicle. If anything, it shows you what you should not expect.

Originally Posted By: M1Accord
the reason i didn't know how to respond to the ido lights because my buddy has a truck where all hte lights stay on constantly due to electrical glitches and i sure heck can't tell what light means what as it is not like i get to see the lights on daily basis. also, when the light is one, we're talking about problem already occured, especially oil light.

so i am researching ways to install gauge for my cars. i know where the sending unit for oil is located on both personal cars but i haven't figured out how to run the wires through the firewall and into the passenger cabin. for my corolla, i probably drill holes out of the dash and have a instrument panel of battery, oil, and coolant gauges right there.

well, time to head to dealership to gawk at the new jeep commander, grand cherokee, and some big ford pickup.


Whenever a light goes on in my Avalon (specifically the "check engine light") or I detect something wrong with my Avalon, I drive home as I usually do and it goes straight to the dealership the next week day. If it is the weekend and I need to go somewhere, I get a ride from someone else. You should never ignore warning lights, especially if they are because of electrical glitches (e.g. modern drive by wire vehicles lose steering if the electrical system goes).

 

[Bror Jace]

Fewer Gauges? It's a dumbed down trend for an increasingly dumbed-down world. Quest is right ... it's mostly the public's fault. If we all demanded more gauges, we'd get them.

Instead we get more cup-holders. Why? That's what the great unwashed masses are clamoring for.

If it were up to me, my instrument panel would look like an F-15 cockpit ... yes, altimeter and all!

 

[MGregoir]

95% of people don't understand the gauges, it scares them, it causes vehicles to get brought in for no reason, and if they can pull any extra content out of the vehicle to save money they will.

GM no longer offers manual transmission half-ton pickups outside of Mexico. Ford offers an optional manual transmission on their V6 F-150. Dodge is the only manufacturer offering a V8, manual transmission half-ton. You can get a 4.7 litre V8 with a six speed.

 

[CivicFan]

I would love to have a possibility of having a real-time electronic display of output from every single sensor in the car. That would be the ultimate 'having gauges' experience when you can have a customized 'portal' with the most frequently used items.

But, alas, that kind of sophistication would cost a lot of money. And when you do a cost/benefit analysis, that kind of information is really useless. The same goes with the simple gauges for oil temp, voltmeter, etc. I do not see any need for such things for an average car.

Why do I care about the oil temp? Or the voltage? A car is something/has to be something that you start it and drive it to your destination. There should not be any need for thought on the part of the customer. The customers have other, more important things to worry about.

 

[psudaytona]

Originally Posted By: CivicFan
I would love to have a possibility of having a real-time electronic display of output from every single sensor in the car. That would be the ultimate 'having gauges' experience when you can have a customized 'portal' with the most frequently used items.

But, alas, that kind of sophistication would cost a lot of money. And when you do a cost/benefit analysis, that kind of information is really useless. The same goes with the simple gauges for oil temp, voltmeter, etc. I do not see any need for such things for an average car.

Why do I care about the oil temp? Or the voltage? A car is something/has to be something that you start it and drive it to your destination. There should not be any need for thought on the part of the customer. The customers have other, more important things to worry about.


Exactly, who cares if your car is running with minimal oil pressure?!? Not me! I want to know if I have email and be able to watch a movie while merging in front of you without using my signals.
All those things on the dash confuse me. I expect my car to KNOW when its raining or dark outside and act accordingly! I want sensors that park the car for me, cause frankly learning how to control my car properly isnt something I am interested in.
I also want a sensor that tells me where the nearest TV news crew is when I need to gas up. Cause they will give me sympathy when I need to refuel my 5 ton war machine!

*sarcasm off*

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: ShiningArcanine
You should never ignore warning lights, especially if they are because of electrical glitches (e.g. modern drive by wire vehicles lose steering if the electrical system goes).


Which makes/models have steering like that?

 

[psudaytona]

Well, the 2006+ crown victorias are ALL throttle by wire. No power, no throttle controls. There is no physical linkage to the throttle from the pedal. To me that is scary enough.


Power steering is open to malfunction enough for me. I have had my car stall and the power steering obviously goes away and its like trying to dock a barge. Luckily for me it was only on a small side street in a non critical moment. A highway wold probably caused me to wreck.

 

[PF52]

Originally Posted By: ShiningArcanine
Domestic auto manufacturers provide rental car companies with warranty support .... By helping rental car companies maintain this illusion of reliability, automobile manufacturers are essentially fishing and I highly advise that you do not bite. Driving the latest vehicle from x manufacturer as a rental car does not provide a statistically significant sampling that would be indicative of your experience as an owner of that vehicle. If anything, it shows you what you should not expect.


So if I loved a car I rented on a long vacation, I should avoid that model like the plague when it comes time to buy a new car? By the way, you're generalizing when you lump "domestics" into this discussion; go to a place like California and the bulk of the rentals available are Asian makes. I've rented Toyotas, Hyundais and Daewoos in California, and even here in Illinois I once rented a Camry. By the way, the only rental I EVER had trouble with was that Camry ... Should I condemn ALL Toyotas due to that one experience, or like you said, do I use that as an example as "what not to expect"?

Originally Posted By: ShiningArcanine
Whenever a light goes on in my Avalon (specifically the "check engine light") or I detect something wrong with my Avalon, I drive home as I usually do and it goes straight to the dealership the next week day. If it is the weekend and I need to go somewhere, I get a ride from someone else. You should never ignore warning lights, especially if they are because of electrical glitches (e.g. modern drive by wire vehicles lose steering if the electrical system goes).


I like to think I know a little about cars, and having proper gauges might alert me to possible trouble before it results in an expensive visit to the dealer's service department. If my alternator is doing a slow death (to use the Midas example from above), I want to KNOW about it ahead of time rather that have the car dead on the side of the road, requiring a tow and possibly whatever else a dealer service writer wants to throw at me. This is a forum of "car people": most of us think nothing of replacing an alternator in the driveway at home, and its much cheaper to boot.

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: psudaytona
Well, the 2006+ crown victorias are ALL throttle by wire. No power, no throttle controls. There is no physical linkage to the throttle from the pedal. To me that is scary enough.


Power steering is open to malfunction enough for me. I have had my car stall and the power steering obviously goes away and its like trying to dock a barge. Luckily for me it was only on a small side street in a non critical moment. A highway wold probably caused me to wreck.


I'm with you on TBW being a little scary, but I'm holding off judgment for a few years. If the components are high enough quality, theoretically they should be less fault prone than a cable setup. The major disadvantage being you can't really temporarily rig them to a working state once they do fail.

And I doubt you would've wrecked if you lost power steering on the freeway. Steering a car at speed w/ disabled power steering really isn't all that bad IME, it's just when stopped and going really slow that it's difficult.