Why is warming up your car bad?

[-Clayton-]

I believe it's a lose lose situation simply because cold oil does not flow well and therefore cannot lubricate vital engine parts.
And what's that doing to your engine under load vs idle. Well we may never really know exactly.

I would say neither is easy on a engine but it's something we all have to deal with at one time or another.

If you feel more comfortable letting it idle for a few minutes or just starting and going and have always done so by all means go ahead.

 

[Zaedock]

merlin64
Member # 9381
posted January 08, 2006 08:12 PM
"If I want to fill it up with gas and idle it all day I will do so It's my dollar."
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"That's fine. Just understand you are wasting that dollar and not doing your car, environment or child any favors.

People are free to smoke too doesn't mean it is a good idea. "

Hey Merlin, I don't think they put the kid in the car while it's warming up. That kinda defeats the purpose, don't you think? Also, there are used oil analysis here on BITOG that show minimal difference between summer and winter used oil analysis. Letting the car warm up for 5 minutes is not going to harm the environment or waste excessive fuel anymore than driving immediately away while in open loop. Now, I've driven on 285 around Atlanta and was passed like I was standing still while going 80MPH. THAT wastes fuel and pollutes the environment.

 

[Zaedock]

merlin64
Member # 9381
posted January 09, 2006 04:30 AM
"Hey Zaedock, please point to the text where I said the kid was in the car while it was warming up. I never claimed that. My point was the exhaust goes someplace, in that the air around the car will be concentrated with fumes (if there is no wind) and some exhaust invariably finds its way inside the car. Sure probably nothing will happen, but with a 2 year old, why take any chance? Besides, we have already established it is a waste of fuel if nothing else.

Regarding 285, I can only be held responsible for my driving, not the driving of others. I should note every major American (and European) city I have visited sees the same type of speeds that are seen on 285--when it is not congested that is. Have you driven on 95 in your area lately?

Your premise seems to be "people in Atlanta speed so no one from there is qualified to give an opinion on the wastefullness of extended warm ups since speeding is wastefull too"

Pretty thin argument in my view. "
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Merlin, I have no arguement, I was being sarcastic and using your city as an example (and actually, up here it's called 128). I do have a premise about people in Atlanta though, and that would be that no one there is qualified to tell me that warming up my sub-freezing car for five minutes is useless and bad.

"My point was the exhaust goes someplace, in that the air around the car will be concentrated with fumes "
I'm surprised we don't have fatalities every day from the 80 million Americans sitting in bumper-to-bumper traffic.

Besides, we have already established it is a waste of fuel if nothing else.
You established it as a waste, I haven't. It's not a waste of fuel as it serves a purpose. The purpose is to warm my butt and to see out my windows. I challenge you to prove that driving and putting a load on your cold car in open loop uses less gas than sitting at idle for a five minute warm up. It's not going to happen.
Also, we all know that cold oil flows slower, so why would you start and drive away putting a load on a car with cold oil? This is better than sitting at fast idle for a few minutes to get the juices flowing? I don't think so.

 

[Zaedock]

V1 wrote: "Alright, so idling obviously takes some extra time, burns a little extra gas, and poisons babies. Most people here are capable of making those determinations on their own."

But does cold idling cause more engine wear than driving off? That's the kicker.

You already know how I feel on this one. Auto's are able to tolerate extreme temperatures, and are tested at such by their manufacturers, but they are designed to be operated in a temperature range. I believe a warmup when cold, helps.

You know, this question falls into the same category as "How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll pop?"
Like they said : "The world may never know"...

 

[merlin64]

"My point was the exhaust goes someplace, in that the air around the car will be concentrated with fumes "
I'm surprised we don't have fatalities every day from the 80 million Americans sitting in bumper-to-bumper traffic. "

We do. UCLA attributes hundreds of deaths a year in the LA basin directly to air pollution. But also remember cars in traffic are almost always in closed loop fully warmed up mode, so emissions are far less than during a high-idle cold start.

 

[caprice_2nv]

When I start my Caprice up in the winter here in Canada, its always below 0degrees C, I pull away instantly after starting and just baby the car up to speed. I get good heat after about 2 minutes of driving and I really don't think its hurting the engine at all. The engine warms up about 10 times faster under slight load then idling. I never hear any noise from it. This motor should be dead by now since it's been run out of oil and overheated several times through its life, but still it keeps running like new.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Like I said, 1 sec at idle for every degree below F freezing.

Best solution for a cold cabin is to let the dog sleep in the car overnight!

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

Who here keeps their cars in a garage, thus lessening the effects of cold weather?

 

[daemonite]

I let my car idle until it drops out of high idle (usually within 30 seconds) then drive it gentle until my temperature needle reaches the normal spot (and by then I'm on the freeway)

 

[Shaman]

When I get a house or an apartment where I am not in the winddraft of a street with sleet, and park on the opposite side of the complex from my car, and in the same below freezing from 7:30 PM climate, then I will not warm up my car. But I have to see to drive, I can't clear my windows with a scraper. I will start the car before i get dressed, and the windows will be clear by the time I get to the car. Even at $4 per gallon, it is better expend some gas than to not be able to see or drive down a main street leading to two different schools with 6 year olds walking down it.

 

[sky jumper]

personally, I'm not comfortable driving my car when oil is not even getting to the valve train yet....

cold flow observations

but I wonder if it would get there faster if I did start & go?

 

[V1]

Oil is "getting there" almost immediately after your engine starts. What I want to know is if cold oil protects the engine under light driving load as well as or better than it does when idling. That ought to answer all of our questions here.

 

[Ramblin Fever]

Gee, this thread is STILL going?

What wastes gas? Here's my opinion -

Speeding
Jack rabbit starts (which MANY people do)
Traffic
Stop lights
Cargo
Supercharged engines
Lift kits
Big tires
Towing

We can go on and on, and likewise to wasting gas, not one of the above mentioned issues are good on an engine's life either.

And yet, this is America, we can choose to fancy our vehicle as we want.

I can think of MANY many other ways we are ruining our environment, and our lives, just as badly as gas pollution -
Littering
Trash each household accumilates
Antifreeze leaks
Powerline's
Cell phones
Head phones
Drinking
Smoking
Junk food
Fast food
Stress
Long-working hours
Depleted soil
Soil contamination
Chronic wasting disease in our Elk
Mad Cow Disease
Hormones in our dairy milk
Teenagers
Two working parents

The list goes on. Do I wish I could change our environment? You bet, it disgusts me to see trash laying on our beautiful beaches.

We are supposed to teach our kids to respect nature, respect others, and yet, people drop their pop cans in the river or some idiot cuts you off on a city street, just to slam on his brakes and turn.

Point is, there are many more issues with our world, more issues to be more concerned about then arguing about what's right or wrong in someone's idea of warming up a car.

Think about it? Where are your children right now? Are they eating as healthy as your cars fluids are?

How bout your spouses, are they still working, or cooking in the kitchen?

If the latter, go lend a hand, make his or her life easier for one night - that's MUCH more important then debating about letting your car idle tomorrow morning.

 

[V1]

Ramblin', you're absolutely right! Nobody can deny that there are more important issues that we face in this world, and as individuals, but you will need a much more powerful campaign if you really want people to hear your message. Thank you, though.

 

[-Clayton-]

I could care less if you start you car at wot.
Just like ramblin said there are many more important things in this world.

 

[sky jumper]

quote:

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Oil is "getting there" almost immediately after your engine starts.

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hmmm, then please explain why I don't see it flowing at the lifter until a good 2 minutes after I start the engine. seems like if it was there immediately, I'd see it immediately.

now surely there is "left over" lubrication that had not run off overnight - but if that was sufficient to lube a valve train, then why pump oil at all?

 

[John K]

ToyotaNSaturn - I've just been reviewing some of these posts....got a chuckle out of yours. Makes one wonder why anyone would want to live in a place like Chicago!!! I took some courses up there one January........-5F and trememdous winds... We get some cold weather but seldon the combination of wind and cold that you do. Makes me want to turn up the heat just thinking about it, and it is supposed to reach 60F here today, in January!
This post has turned into quite a bit of argueing, but remember, the question was asked, why is it bad. I think the question has been answered. Everyone has to take their own situation into account and do as they please. Not trying to convert anyone from one side or the other....

 

[Zaedock]

sky jumper
Member # 8644

posted January 11, 2006 10:25 PM
"when you say you get oil right after start up - is that after letting the engine sit cold (20F) for >8 hours? that's when I see the long delays. at warmer temps it's much faster, although not instant. "

Ironically, a long time ago (jeebus maybe 12-15+/- years), my brother and I did a little test in the winter. This was before I even knew enough to care about oil. I had just bent a couple of push rods on my SBC (actually, it was the same car!). My brother figured I might have an upper end oil problem, so we pulled the valve covers after letting the car sit overnight in Jan. It was pretty cold, as I remember taking my sweaty hand out of my glove and having it stick to the tools. Anyway, he started it up and sure enough, oil (all I ever used back then was 10W30) was flowing from the push rods and rockers.

Even the 2.5L in my '92 Wrangler flows from the push rods/rockers when stone-cold first started, although I've smartened up and use 5W30 in winter.

I hope you don't have an oil pump problem. Do you have a mechanical gauge or a dummy light?
My Jeep has an electric gauge, but I used a 1/4" "T" pipe fitting to plumb in a mechanical gauge as well. That might be something you should look into doing. I found both gauges to be close though. Two is a good precaution (especially in a trail rig!).

 

[Zaedock]

sky jumper
Member # 8644

posted January 11, 2006 09:20 PM
quote:
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Oil is "getting there" almost immediately after your engine starts.
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hmmm, then please explain why I don't see it flowing at the lifter until a good 2 minutes after I start the engine. seems like if it was there immediately, I'd see it immediately.

now surely there is "left over" lubrication that had not run off overnight - but if that was sufficient to lube a valve train, then why pump oil at all?

I hate to say it, but if it takes 2 minutes for oil to get up top, you've got problems.
I've adjusted the rockers on my Small block Chevy (i.e. fire it up cold and adjust with the valve covers off) and oil is flowing right after I start it.

 

[sky jumper]

quote:

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I hate to say it, but if it takes 2 minutes for oil to get up top, you've got problems.

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yeah that's what I've been worried about - seems way too long. my used oil analysis are good though, and the valve train is nice and quiet. I've been trying to find someone else with a nissan VQ30 to run the same experiments. anyone??

when you say you get oil right after start up - is that after letting the engine sit cold (20F) for >8 hours? that's when I see the long delays. at warmer temps it's much faster, although not instant.