Why is warming up your car bad?

[Jonny Z]

quote:

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Why can't there be an eletrical heater/blower for the windshield. It takes forever for the coolant to heat up.


This has been debated since the first rear window electric defrosters have been around. I believe that it always comes down to long term visability. They apparently can conquer that obstacle. The Euros would surely have it (at least in Europe) if it was practical. When I was in skewl (30+ years ago) there was reasearch being performed on making a windshield defroster that would clear it in 30 seconds.

It never worked out. If the Euros had it, I would say it was because of the windshield washer fluid lobby ..maybe the ice scraper lobby

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I meant something like this. A car marketed with a Winter Package - with an optional slightly lager battery and an alternator that is rated for say 20 AMP more. Put an electrical heater element in the heater core. As soon as the motor fires up, and HVAC set to heat or def, this 240-watt element supplies heat, until the computer reads sufficient temp in the coolant, then the electrical heater drops out, and a valve opens, and allow warmed coolant into the heater core.

240 watt is not much, but it will speed up melting of the ice.

 

[jsharp]

The used oil analysis I've done on my vehicles show no increase in fuel dilution between summer and winter. These are all modern vehicles with electronic fuel injection.

Anytime it's below 20 or 25 degrees and the vehicles have been sitting overnight they get warmed up 5-10 minutes before I drive off. That's only because I don't like sitting a a cold car any longer than I need to.

I bought the vehicles to serve me, not the other way around...

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

jsharp, I agree 100% the car is for us humans...

I don't care to sit in a cold car after spending 5 or 10 minutes scraping the exterior free from ice so one can see out the windows. Then, like some sort of cruel twist of physics, the windows fog up where you can only see through that itty-bitty hole.

Letting 'er warm up solves all the problems while you're still in your driveway.

Then to add insult to the body, for anyone that commutes via train, you get to ride in that cold car, park it at the train station, walk through snow and ice on your way to the turnstyle, then wait on the train platform for 10 minutes in -10°F temperatures while every extremity in your body screams for warmth. Then upon entering the train car, you realize that the one you chose has no heat! You sit on the train for 45-60 minutes while your toes freeze to your socks.

Only now you scurry out of the train and walk another 7 blocks to work in the city where the ice cold winds blast your body like an olympic skier travelling downhill in an attempt to set the world record. You learn to hate "DON'T WALK" signs with an utter passion at this point in time. Finally, the first bit of heat your body finds after it has left your house is in the door's entryway to your office. Finally a "B-line" is made to the coffee machine for some real relief.

No one has experienced cold quite like waiting on a Metra platform for 30-60 minutes while looking for the train that's running late while the 20MPH winds blast through your work pants and make icicles of one's toes. In prison, they call this "cruel and unusual punishment" or a violation of civil rights. In Chicago, it's called the "morning commute". Go figure.

I'd rather have heat in my car with warm up time to take the edge off the morning train communting experience than go without. Changing the oil more often, say every 3K, will prove to be prudent in regards to fuel dilution. Your fingers and toes will thank you.

 

[Gary Allan]

Why can't there be an eletrical heater/blower for the windshield. It takes forever for the coolant to heat up.


This has been debated since the first rear window electric defrosters have been around. I believe that it always comes down to long term visability. They apparently can conquer that obstacle. The Euros would surely have it (at least in Europe) if it was practical. When I was in skewl (30+ years ago) there was reasearch being performed on making a windshield defroster that would clear it in 30 seconds.

It never worked out. If the Euros had it, I would say it was because of the windshield washer fluid lobby ..maybe the ice scraper lobby

 

[nobadges]

quote:

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Why can't there be an eletrical heater/blower for the windshield. It takes forever for the coolant to heat up.

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There is.
I think Ford has had this option on Crown Vic’s for several years up here.
The windshields have a gold tint to them.
They don’t use the lines on the glass like rear windows because of obscuring vision.
It works but looks like crap and is very expensive.
Train locomotives have used it for years.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Seriously.. Covered parking anyone? Do they only have garages and carports in the south?

 

[Audi Junkie]

My buddy's Rover HSE has tiny zig-zag wires in the windshield for electrical defrosting.

 

[Ramblin Fever]

I agree with jsharp all the way; the vehicle is to our advantage in life, why not enjoy them as much as we can, with descent respect of course.

You wouldn't put a young infant in a car having sat outside all night after only 30 seconds of warm-up time anymore then you would your senior Mother.

Also, at least a good portion of the population has the advantage, I'm sure, of parking in a weather shielded garage, but not everyone has that.

 

[yooper]

Wasteful or not, warming up the car where I live can be a must. If you're one of the unfortunate individuals who don't have a garage in this area, you really don't have a choice unless you're one of the idiots who is driving down the road looking through a tiny peep hole in the windshield. Before I had a garage, the ritual was to start the car and then proceed to brush off snow and scrape the windshields. Hopefully by the time your done, the car will have warmed up enough to start clearing the windshield(it will still frost up even after you scrape).

If we're worried about the longevity of our cars, then we should campaign against the use of road salt. The engines outlive the bodies around here although they have gotton better in rust resistance in recent years. I HATE salt!

Anybody who is dead against some warm up time in the winter needs to come up here for a few weeks and your attitude will change quickly.

 

[John K]

Idling is a very inefficient way to warm up an engine because it has no load on it and is running so slow. The coolant and oil circulation is poor. If you let it run for 15 minutes or so, it is extremely wasteful. If you do it while you are inside the house, imagine how you would feel to come out and find your car gone! There are circumstances that make it necessary to warm up the engine, but from the standpoint of what is best for the engine, driving slowly for a few miles is better, and the engine will warm up much faster. Will you notice the difference in longevity? Probably not. If you are idling the car unattended, what would happen if a leak developed or something else that requires immediate shutdown? Each to his own, there are a wide range of situations and everyone has to do what they feel comfortable with, taking into account safety and comfort. Too many people think a prolonged warm up is best for the car, and I think they are wrong. I've seen my son-in-law warm his car up for 30 minutes or more, and that is crazy.

 

[Quockieo]

I can honestly say that up in the north, it's hard to let the car warm up only 1min or so and drive off due to all the bad weather conditions. That's very unlucky.

But, im interested in seeing if cars in the north with the chilly weather are more prone to breakdowns than the people who warm up their cars in the south.

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

My Saturn 4-banger is 3700 miles in to the current OCI with Havoline 10w30 HM SL. (Somehow, I've managed to get past the 3K mark without changing it! woohoo!

)

In response to this thread, I'm going to change it after winter, about March 1st, and send in a used oil analysis to see if excessive idling has caused any excessive engine wear. There will be about 6500 miles on this sample. Perhaps excessive fuel dilution will be an issue and the cause of excessive wear, perhaps not. Time will tell. Maybe this used oil analysis will shed some light on whether or not warming the car up is bad or not...

 

[Ramblin Fever]

I do agree that "excessive idling" is way bad. 1/2hr is just WAY too much time to idle.

But again, 5-10 minutes while your scraping ice, snow off your vehicle is a must when the windshield fogs up faster then you can blink.

ToyotaNSaturn - ditto. I'm running Havoline 5w30 blend in one vehicle that I'm gonna push to 4,500k miles. Oil already has 2k miles and is still very clean and has no fuel smell. This vehicle idles for apprx 15 minutes total 5 days a week, morning and late afternoon.

I'm gonna change it out probably mid February; however, if at 4k miles it's still as clean, I'll try to push it to March and do a used oil analysis as well.

 

[herbie]

In my opinion, longer engine warmup in colder temps will help get the transmision and other driveline parts closer to their operating temp. before driving.Heat would be transferred from the motor and exhaust.As stated here the engine will not warm up as quickly, but with todays cars it seems that the driveline parts are the weaker link compared to engines.I would also add that some kind of block heater is good to reduce warmup times.

 

[labman]

Yeah, warm up your engine, it increases the likelyhood it will outlast our oil supply.

 

[Hirev]

So do all those cop car motors must have a real short life span from all the idling they do?

I generally like to run the motor at 2000 RPM for around 2 minutes when it is below 32 deg. More if the windshield(sp?) has some ice on it. Much more if it has ice rain on it. But don't warm it up much if it much warmer than 32 deg.

 

[nobadges]

quote:

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So do all those cop car motors must have a real short life span from all the idling they do?

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Actually they pretty much are.
I work for fleet procurement. The engines are toast after 24 months. They spend more time idling than driving.

 

[06MonteSS]

I have an '06 Monte Carlo SS with a remote start... and that runs it at 10-minute intervals.


Normally, one remote-start-interval is enough - which runs the car and runs the heat for 10 minutes before shutting off...

Any real harm in that??

Thanks!!

 

[V1]

The consensus here seems to be that warm-ups waste fuel and cause oil contamination.

The fuel waste argument doesn't hold a candle up to aggressive driving. The amount of fuel that gets wasted every day by pointless aggressive driving must be staggering. Even if EVERY person did a 2-minute warm-up on top of that, there is still no comparison if you ask me.

The fuel and water contamination is definitely a valid argument, but the severity is still relative to how the car is driven.

No matter what your preference is, don't compromise safety. It's all worthless if you crash your car and get hurt because you can't see through the windshield.

 

[Quockieo]

My nissan manual said to allow the engine for at least 30 seconds after starting. Do not race engine while warming it up. Drive at moderate speed for short distances first, especially in cold weather.

In cold weather, keep the engine running for a minimum of 2-3 minutes before shutting it off. Starting and stopping the engine over a short period of time may make the vehicle more difficult to start.

So.... it seems like idling for about 2 minutes before turning the ignition switch off in very cold weather is a good thing to allow coolant/oil to settle down?