Why Extended Drain Intervals Are A Bad Idea

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: johnsmellsalot
I'd just like to clarify some things:
1. This is a 3.1 L GM engine.
2. It doesn't take 20 people to tell me that there was antifreeze in the oil.
3. @Clevy: If you change your oil every 3,000 miles, there's no point in using synthetic.
4. @INTJ: They never said how often they changed the oil.
5. @tig1: My parent's Civic has 40k and its been using conventional every since it was new. It looks cleaner than the one in your picture.


If you read my post you would have seen that I said the Focus is absolutely clean, no varnish or dis-colaration. This thread was started by YOU to show all of us extended oil changes caused the sludge in the GM engine. So, what was the OCI with the Civic that it is as clean as mine with 40K? By the way, coolant may be that guys problem. Oh! Did we already say that?

 

[lexus114]

tig, I respect you very much, and in no way am I trying to be smart. But what are you and some of the other guy`s here trying to prove with these 10,000 mile oil change intervals? When most vehicles require a lot less? especially vehicles with smaller sumps and non fleece oil filters? I`m sorry, but I just dont get it. I like getting that crud and who knows what else outta my motor way before that.

 

[tig1]

No offense taken, in fact I enjoy these kind of questions. First of all I have no problem with shoter OCIs if that is your choice. For me the 10K OCI has been the norm for 33 years using Mobil 1 oils. Back in the 70s I had to be pulled kickin and screamin to the 10K thing. I thought it was crazy along with paying $5 a qt for Mobil 1 5w20. But because of the superior cold start advantage(I lived in Maine then) I tried it and have seen the advantages of syn oil(easier starting, very clean engines also see my pics in this thread, long lived engines and long OCIs) ever since.

Lexus, as for the crud, my oil filters are clean and crud free, when examined, but if I were you I would stick with what works for you.

 

[johnsmellsalot]

Originally Posted By: INTJ
From the Mobil side: At 1:47 there is a caption highlighted on "15,000 oil change interval," and the Mobil tech said it verbally @ 2:06.

From the cab company: @ 5:23 he says, "waist reduced by half obviously, because we change our oil half of what we used to."

That would be half of 15k to me.

Ok. Most manufacturers recommend that oil is changed every 5,000-7,500 miles. For extreme conditions, it's supposed to be every 3,000 miles. 80% of people drive in extreme conditions. Here's a quote from my owner's manual: "Your vehicle has an Engine Oil Life Monitor. This monitor will show you when to change the engine oil and filter -- usually between 3,000 miles (5 000 km) and 7,500 miles (12 500 km) since your last oil change. Under severe conditions, the indicator may come on before 3,000 miles (5 000 km). Never drive your vehicle more than 7,500 miles (12 500 km) or 12 months without an oil and filter change." Therefore, that test is invalid. I'm not surprise that's how the engine looked in 4:20.

 

[aquariuscsm]

I know people who use dino and go with a religious 3000 mile oci. Engines always run flawlessly but are always VERY varnished up. No sludge,just varnish. Would 3000 oci`s on a synthetic have prevented said varnish? Just curious.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: tig1
No offense taken, in fact I enjoy these kind of questions. First of all I have no problem with shoter OCIs if that is your choice. For me the 10K OCI has been the norm for 33 years using Mobil 1 oils. Back in the 70s I had to be pulled kickin and screamin to the 10K thing. I thought it was crazy along with paying $5 a qt for Mobil 1 5w20. But because of the superior cold start advantage(I lived in Maine then) I tried it and have seen the advantages of syn oil(easier starting, very clean engines also see my pics in this thread, long lived engines and long OCIs) ever since.

Lexus, as for the crud, my oil filters are clean and crud free, when examined, but if I were you I would stick with what works for you.



I was thinking about this on my drive home today. And if I had bought my RX new, I could see extending the oci`s "some" if I ran Synthetic from the begining. But 10,000 I just cant bring myself to do. Anyway, glad to have this debate with you.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I know people who use dino and go with a religious 3000 mile oci. Engines always run flawlessly but are always VERY varnished up. No sludge,just varnish. Would 3000 oci`s on a synthetic have prevented said varnish? Just curious.


There are several pics on here of Audi's with dark reddish varnish using Mobil 1 0w40. Can't remember if the OCI was mentioned. So yes, it can happen with synthetic too.

 

[jeepman3071]

I think with extended OCIs there are lots of variables to consider before picking a specific drain interval.

Mileage driven per year is a big one. Yeah the bottle on Mobil 1 Extended Performance says 15,000 miles, but if you drive only 5,000 miles a year it is probably not a smart choice.

What kind of driving is done? For me, I drive 7 miles to work/school everyday. I would never do a 10k oil change interval just because of the fact that my oil probably doesn't get to operating temp most days. I have friends who drive lots of highway and 10k OCIs would be a cake walk for them with a good oil/filter.

Another issue is the car's mechanical condition. Does it burn oil? Leak coolant? Overheat? Fuel dilution? etc.

The main goal with extended oil drains is not to prove anything, but to conserve resources. Why change out Mobil 1 Extended Performance every 3500 miles when it is good for much longer? That is just wasteful and stupid. Extended drains are also good if you don't like changing the oil all the time. My sister's '05 Civic is a pain to get under and change the oil. She also drives a lot so I'd be changing the oil every other month with conventional. Its less of a hassle to run an extended drain on Pennzoil Platinum and not worry about it as much. Same thing with my grandfather. He still likes to do everything himself but has a hard time getting on the ground to change the oil. Running synthetic and changing it less often still gives him peace of mind without taking as much of a toll on his body.

Fact of the matter is that there is no straight answer on extended drains and the variables must be taken into consideration before making a decision.

 

[cchase]

Originally Posted By: johnsmellsalot
I'd just like to clarify some things:
1. This is a 3.1 L GM engine.
2. It doesn't take 20 people to tell me that there was antifreeze in the oil.
3. @Clevy: If you change your oil every 3,000 miles, there's no point in using synthetic.
4. @INTJ: They never said how often they changed the oil.
5. @tig1: My parent's Civic has 40k and its been using conventional every since it was new. It looks cleaner than the one in your picture.


Ultimately, everyones "problem" is that the whole thread is baseless. It states "why extended drain intervals are a bad idea" and then posts a picture with a neglected engine with other issues.

The point is that you aren't proving or providing evidence for anything along those lines.

Please, feel free to run oil as long as you like, but your thread in no way provides evidence for that which you claim.

 

[RF Overlord]

Originally Posted By: INTJ
"waist reduced by half obviously, because we change our oil half of what we used to."
I must be doing something wrong...I change my oil every 5,000 miles and my waist is still as big as ever.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
Originally Posted By: INTJ
"waist reduced by half obviously, because we change our oil half of what we used to."
I must be doing something wrong...I change my oil every 5,000 miles and my waist is still as big as ever.

 

[OldCowboy]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
I think with extended OCIs there are lots of variables to consider before picking a specific drain interval.

Mileage driven per year is a big one. Yeah the bottle on Mobil 1 Extended Performance says 15,000 miles, but if you drive only 5,000 miles a year it is probably not a smart choice.

What kind of driving is done? For me, I drive 7 miles to work/school everyday. I would never do a 10k oil change interval just because of the fact that my oil probably doesn't get to operating temp most days. I have friends who drive lots of highway and 10k OCIs would be a cake walk for them with a good oil/filter.

Another issue is the car's mechanical condition. Does it burn oil? Leak coolant? Overheat? Fuel dilution? etc.

The main goal with extended oil drains is not to prove anything, but to conserve resources. Why change out Mobil 1 Extended Performance every 3500 miles when it is good for much longer? That is just wasteful and stupid. Extended drains are also good if you don't like changing the oil all the time. My sister's '05 Civic is a pain to get under and change the oil. She also drives a lot so I'd be changing the oil every other month with conventional. Its less of a hassle to run an extended drain on Pennzoil Platinum and not worry about it as much. Same thing with my grandfather. He still likes to do everything himself but has a hard time getting on the ground to change the oil. Running synthetic and changing it less often still gives him peace of mind without taking as much of a toll on his body.

Fact of the matter is that there is no straight answer on extended drains and the variables must be taken into consideration before making a decision.


Jeep, you nailed it. I live out in the middle of nowhere, so my shortest drive is 25 miles. I put 30,000 miles a year on my car. With this driving pattern, I have no problem with 10,000 mile OCIs.

OTOH, your pattern does not qualify for extended drains.

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: dwilly99
i agree with the OP bad idea to run 10000miles without getting oil tested, and how many of you have torn down an engine with coolent in it, im gonna guess zero cuz thats not what it looks like, that looks like sludge im sure the car had an external coolent leak.


Punctuation... makes it easier for us to read.

Also hard for us to believe you when you can't spell coolant. That is what an engine looks like with coolant and oil mix in the crankcase. If coolant was in the cylinders it would make them clean, not the crankcase.


I agree. I've drained a the crankcases of a few engines with internal coolant leaks and the oil came out looking like chocolate milk. It's when the coolant leak goes from bad to worse that you see vanilla milkshake stuff coming out.



Just to further this- We tore into a GM 3.8 today. It had a leaking intake for some time and had gotten to the point that it wouldn't start due to ingesting coolant. Well, when we took the lower intake off, you could see sludge just like in the pictures and it started directly below each leaking water jacket port in the head. It was piled up in mounds. So yes, coolant leaking into the crankcase does yield that kind of sludge.

 

[INTJ]

Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
Originally Posted By: INTJ
"waist reduced by half obviously, because we change our oil half of what we used to."
I must be doing something wrong...I change my oil every 5,000 miles and my waist is still as big as ever.


Oh, those homonyms again.

But, I could use a waist reduction too...LoL

 

[biodiesel]

Originally Posted By: johnsmellsalot
I was on google trying to find a picture of my engine when I stumbled upon these pictures. http://www.jeepkj.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47101

It's just another reason to change the oil according to the owner's manual. On my car, its every 3,000 miles. On my parent's 2010 Honda Civic, its when the OLM gets to 5%.

Some people use oil such as Mobil 1 Extended Performance because they think they can go 15,000 miles on the same oil.

Here's a quote from the Honda Civic manual: "You may use a synthetic motor oil if it meets the same requirements given for a conventional motor oil: it displays the API Certification Seal, and it is the proper weight. You must follow the oil and filter change intervals shown on the information display."

I don't use synthetic unless it's required by the vehicle manufacturer. I also don't leave anything in there longer than I'm supposed to.


So what's your point exactly? I've read your post three times now and I still don't get how your ramblings and lack of evidence prove anything.

 

[johnsmellsalot]

My point is that it's not a good idea to leave oil in your engine longer than your supposed to. Overtime, oil gets contaminated with dirt and debris. That's why you have to change it. It doesn't matter if you use synthetic or not. It's still going to get dirty. The part I quoted says that if you do use synthetic oil, it still has to be changed at the same intervals.

 

[OVERKILL]

Explain GM's OLM then.

 

[INTJ]

Originally Posted By: johnsmellsalot
My point is that it's not a good idea to leave oil in your engine longer than your supposed to. Overtime, oil gets contaminated with dirt and debris. That's why you have to change it. It doesn't matter if you use synthetic or not. It's still going to get dirty. The part I quoted says that if you do use synthetic oil, it still has to be changed at the same intervals.


John, the Mobil ES information states "One Year" or 15k miles.

Amsoil is similar.

Of course the posters in this thread and the board are aware of the value oil analysis to determine its life expectancy, and that even certain cars under ideal road conditions, can beat on an oil to shorten this up.

In general, though, one can go longer in time on these extended oils, but the majority of evidence is anecdotal, and sometimes it takes smaller steps in order to take the plunge via "evidence."

If you do a lot of driving this is the way to go, or if not, it certainly cuts down the enviromental waist/waste.

 

[4ever4d]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Explain GM's OLM then.

I will agree on this point. The olm on the Trailblazer in my sig belongs to a good friend of mine it has been going 8-14k on an oci since she has owned it. Have used Quaker State Advanced Durability and more often Quaker State Ultimate Durability with good results,very clean engine with 96k on the odo.

 

[TFB1]

I have one on a 10K/1yr OCI using Mobil 1 Extended Performance, I have no doubt it will be as spotless at the end of this change as it was prior... If it wasn't getting regular short trips this winter, I'd run it even farther...