only the shadow knows.......
Why does Honda recommed one filter for two OCI's?
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Ok guys, this is the e-mail I sent to a fellow service advisor I work with, she's at our Honda store(different town) and I'm at our KIA store. Her husband is a master certified Honda tech current going to school for a degree in mechanical engineering hoping to get a job at Honda. He is what I would call a Honda guru. Take it for what it's worth.
Hey, thanks for the note, btw. Since you left me your email addy I thought I'd ask you/your husband a question. Why does Honda recommend the oil filter be left in place for two oil changes? Is it there way of saying the cost of ownership is less on a Honda, or have they determined some mechanical advantage with running the filter twice?
Thx!
Dan said Honda recommends every other because replacing the filter introduces a small amount of particles into the oil system every time you change it and the filter doesn’t NEED to be replaced every time. And we also do not use aftermarket filters anymore, we did for a short period of time I guess but we use Honda ones now.
Hey, thanks for the note, btw. Since you left me your email addy I thought I'd ask you/your husband a question. Why does Honda recommend the oil filter be left in place for two oil changes? Is it there way of saying the cost of ownership is less on a Honda, or have they determined some mechanical advantage with running the filter twice?
Thx!
Dan said Honda recommends every other because replacing the filter introduces a small amount of particles into the oil system every time you change it and the filter doesn’t NEED to be replaced every time. And we also do not use aftermarket filters anymore, we did for a short period of time I guess but we use Honda ones now.
Replacing a filter introduces a small amount of particles???
Even more than the 65% Honda sieve of a filter leaves in the system in the first place?
Hmmmm... thanks for asking but alas I still don't think we have the real answer. JMO.
Even more than the 65% Honda sieve of a filter leaves in the system in the first place?
Hmmmm... thanks for asking but alas I still don't think we have the real answer. JMO.
Originally Posted By: jfking106
High flow vs. high filtration.
I agree. Honda filters are high flow rather than high filtration, so they don't get loaded with particles quickly. Using high filtration filters changes that.
High flow vs. high filtration.
I agree. Honda filters are high flow rather than high filtration, so they don't get loaded with particles quickly. Using high filtration filters changes that.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Replacing a filter introduces a small amount of particles???
Yes, if you closely examine the threads on conventional oil filters (can design) there are machining debris on them and that is on the CLEAN side. Often times filters are only packaged in paper box with nothing stopping the dust. Again, on the CLEAN side.
Replacing a filter introduces a small amount of particles???
Yes, if you closely examine the threads on conventional oil filters (can design) there are machining debris on them and that is on the CLEAN side. Often times filters are only packaged in paper box with nothing stopping the dust. Again, on the CLEAN side.
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Replacing a filter introduces a small amount of particles???
Yes, if you closely examine the threads on conventional oil filters (can design) there are machining debris on them and that is on the CLEAN side. Often times filters are only packaged in paper box with nothing stopping the dust. Again, on the CLEAN side.
That's why I clean up the clean side of every oil filter I buy.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Replacing a filter introduces a small amount of particles???
Yes, if you closely examine the threads on conventional oil filters (can design) there are machining debris on them and that is on the CLEAN side. Often times filters are only packaged in paper box with nothing stopping the dust. Again, on the CLEAN side.
That's why I clean up the clean side of every oil filter I buy.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Replacing a filter introduces a small amount of particles???
Even more than the 65% Honda sieve of a filter leaves in the system in the first place....
Good point. And if it's REALLY that critical to avoid the "small amount of particles" why then is it SOP to change the filter with each Honda dealer oil change. Answer, because 'if' the particle theory is true it's an insignificant consideration.
It is interesting that Honda dealer was using aftermarket filters for awhile. What does that say? Hmmm.
I also agree a definitive answer has not been provided, nor is it likely to be.
Replacing a filter introduces a small amount of particles???
Even more than the 65% Honda sieve of a filter leaves in the system in the first place....
Good point. And if it's REALLY that critical to avoid the "small amount of particles" why then is it SOP to change the filter with each Honda dealer oil change. Answer, because 'if' the particle theory is true it's an insignificant consideration.
It is interesting that Honda dealer was using aftermarket filters for awhile. What does that say? Hmmm.
I also agree a definitive answer has not been provided, nor is it likely to be.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
That's why I clean up the clean side of every oil filter I buy.
I do too, but not the average person or grease monkey.
That's why I clean up the clean side of every oil filter I buy.
I do too, but not the average person or grease monkey.
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
That's why I clean up the clean side of every oil filter I buy.
I do too, but not the average person or grease monkey.
What do you do, fill filter with clean oil then dump it?
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
That's why I clean up the clean side of every oil filter I buy.
I do too, but not the average person or grease monkey.
What do you do, fill filter with clean oil then dump it?
I clean the threads with clean cloth to remove metal shavings and then blow compressed air inside to blow dust out.
Use a vacuum cleaner to suck out the center tube ... you get a nice air flow through the media, just like oil was flowing but instead it's air. Blowing inside the center tube with compressed air could push some debris into the media, which would then just dislodge and go down the motor when oil first goes through the filter.
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: jfking106
High flow vs. high filtration.
I agree. Honda filters are high flow rather than high filtration, so they don't get loaded with particles quickly. Using high filtration filters changes that.
That is one more reason I run a oversize filter on my S2000. The Baldwin(B202) I use is a little over twice the size as the stock oil filter with well over twice the filter material inside, so I get better filtering with more flow.
ROD
Originally Posted By: jfking106
High flow vs. high filtration.
I agree. Honda filters are high flow rather than high filtration, so they don't get loaded with particles quickly. Using high filtration filters changes that.
That is one more reason I run a oversize filter on my S2000. The Baldwin(B202) I use is a little over twice the size as the stock oil filter with well over twice the filter material inside, so I get better filtering with more flow.
ROD
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
I clean the threads with clean cloth to remove metal shavings and then blow compressed air inside to blow dust out.
I do all the above but with a few extras. After this, I place it upon the shrine I built for it. I then turn on some smooth jazz to get it ready for bed. I tuck it in then in the morning it is well rested and ready to be installed.
I clean the threads with clean cloth to remove metal shavings and then blow compressed air inside to blow dust out.
I do all the above but with a few extras. After this, I place it upon the shrine I built for it. I then turn on some smooth jazz to get it ready for bed. I tuck it in then in the morning it is well rested and ready to be installed.
Then you are not doing everything you could. Why not cut open the can, unfold the media, powerwash it, refold, and weld the can back together?
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
I clean the threads with clean cloth to remove metal shavings and then blow compressed air inside to blow dust out.
I do all the above but with a few extras. After this, I place it upon the shrine I built for it. I then turn on some smooth jazz to get it ready for bed. I tuck it in then in the morning it is well rested and ready to be installed.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
I clean the threads with clean cloth to remove metal shavings and then blow compressed air inside to blow dust out.
I do all the above but with a few extras. After this, I place it upon the shrine I built for it. I then turn on some smooth jazz to get it ready for bed. I tuck it in then in the morning it is well rested and ready to be installed.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Then you are not doing everything you could. Why not cut open the can, unfold the media, powerwash it, refold, and weld the can back together?
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I do all the above but with a few extras. After this, I place it upon the shrine I built for it. I then turn on some smooth jazz to get it ready for bed. I tuck it in then in the morning it is well rested and ready to be installed.
LOL!
Then you are not doing everything you could. Why not cut open the can, unfold the media, powerwash it, refold, and weld the can back together?
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I do all the above but with a few extras. After this, I place it upon the shrine I built for it. I then turn on some smooth jazz to get it ready for bed. I tuck it in then in the morning it is well rested and ready to be installed.
LOL!
well you heard my answer and we rebuild just about every engine there is and i have heard that many times over the years at engine seminars and classes given by the people who design and produce engines.
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
well you heard my answer and we rebuild just about every engine there is and i have heard that many times over the years at engine seminars and classes given by the people who design and produce engines.
Are these the same people (factory engineers) that design major car manufacturer engines, such as Mopar, GM, Ford, etc., or aftermarket engines? Can you provide documetation?
well you heard my answer and we rebuild just about every engine there is and i have heard that many times over the years at engine seminars and classes given by the people who design and produce engines.
Are these the same people (factory engineers) that design major car manufacturer engines, such as Mopar, GM, Ford, etc., or aftermarket engines? Can you provide documetation?
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
well you heard my answer and we rebuild just about every engine there is and i have heard that many times over the years at engine seminars and classes given by the people who design and produce engines.
If 'dry' starts were such an issue, every engine should get primed after a filter change and each owners manual would insist that you change the filter LESS OFTEN.
Sorry, just not buying it as the reason for Honda's recommendation in the owners manual (which almost none of the Honda dealerships actually follow). Which also goes against that. If Honda corporate knew this was critical, they would issue a TSB to ensure that oil filters are not changed too often.
I just don't see the 'dry' start theory making any logical sense.
well you heard my answer and we rebuild just about every engine there is and i have heard that many times over the years at engine seminars and classes given by the people who design and produce engines.
If 'dry' starts were such an issue, every engine should get primed after a filter change and each owners manual would insist that you change the filter LESS OFTEN.
Sorry, just not buying it as the reason for Honda's recommendation in the owners manual (which almost none of the Honda dealerships actually follow). Which also goes against that. If Honda corporate knew this was critical, they would issue a TSB to ensure that oil filters are not changed too often.
I just don't see the 'dry' start theory making any logical sense.
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
I clean the threads with clean cloth to remove metal shavings and then blow compressed air inside to blow dust out.
Are you blowing from inside the center tube. If so I think that may force the particulate into the media only to be forced out once oil is pumped thru.
When I was a kid I worked at Goodyear changing tires and doing oil changes. They bought filters by the case. Nothing was sealed so dust and whatever could theoretically get into them.
We had a small shop vac that I would use,with a nozzle small enough to just cover the center threaded part. I vacuumed the center out for about 10 seconds then used packing tape to cover the center,then returned them to the box.
The tape itself was that cheap cream coloured stuff. Very little adhesive,much like painters tape,so there was no residue from the adhesive left on the rubber gasket.
So its something I still do to this day. Even if the filter(napa) is completely plastic wrapped I still vacuum them out even though its not likely necessary. The idea is sound.
Blowing them out doesn't sound to me like it would work quite as thoroughly as the vacuum deal,but at least its something.
I clean the threads with clean cloth to remove metal shavings and then blow compressed air inside to blow dust out.
Are you blowing from inside the center tube. If so I think that may force the particulate into the media only to be forced out once oil is pumped thru.
When I was a kid I worked at Goodyear changing tires and doing oil changes. They bought filters by the case. Nothing was sealed so dust and whatever could theoretically get into them.
We had a small shop vac that I would use,with a nozzle small enough to just cover the center threaded part. I vacuumed the center out for about 10 seconds then used packing tape to cover the center,then returned them to the box.
The tape itself was that cheap cream coloured stuff. Very little adhesive,much like painters tape,so there was no residue from the adhesive left on the rubber gasket.
So its something I still do to this day. Even if the filter(napa) is completely plastic wrapped I still vacuum them out even though its not likely necessary. The idea is sound.
Blowing them out doesn't sound to me like it would work quite as thoroughly as the vacuum deal,but at least its something.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Use a vacuum cleaner to suck out the center tube ... you get a nice air flow through the media, just like oil was flowing but instead it's air. Blowing inside the center tube with compressed air could push some debris into the media, which would then just dislodge and go down the motor when oil first goes through the filter.
Great idea. See above post
Use a vacuum cleaner to suck out the center tube ... you get a nice air flow through the media, just like oil was flowing but instead it's air. Blowing inside the center tube with compressed air could push some debris into the media, which would then just dislodge and go down the motor when oil first goes through the filter.
Great idea. See above post
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