Why does Honda recommed one filter for two OCI's?

[atoalson]

Is it to say there cost of ownership is lower or have they determined there's a mechanical benefit to running one filter for two OCI's. I realize the longer a filter is used(to a certain point) the better job it does at removing harmful particles.

So why does Honda recommend one filter for two OCI's? Of course this is assuming you use their(Honda) filters.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: atoalson
Is it to say there cost of ownership is lower or have they determined there's a mechanical benefit to running one filter for two OCI's. I realize the longer a filter is used(to a certain point) the better job it does at removing harmful particles.

So why does Honda recommend one filter for two OCI's? Of course this is assuming you use their(Honda) filters.

I can't wait to see the answer!

 

[ZeeOSix]

Apparently they think their OEM filter is designed to run that long, so why change it out when it's only half used up? Maybe it's their contribution to being "green".

 

[Sayjac]

I don't think you'll ever get a definitive/authoritative answer to that question. That said, I'm inclined to agree with your first thought, a lower advertised cost of ownership.

But it's a moot point as far as Honda dealers' service is concerned. If one goes to a Honda dealer for an oil change, the filter is changed each time. And having done my own research, some Honda dealers are unaware of the every other time fci. Either that or they don't want to know about it.

 

[Quest]

I have a genuine 1895 Nissan Stanza factory service manual and in it stated that oil filter is to be changed every other oil change.

Q.

 

[JOD]

Honda have done this for a very long time. I have a hard time believing "cost of ownership" had much to do with the decision since the same Hondas that called for changing the filter every other change also called for 30K valve adjustments and regular brake fluid changes... BTW, Ford used to also call for a filter change every other oil change.

I will say that on some of their engines the filters aren't all that accessible, so it's nice that they officially bless the long change for the filter. In a properly-maintained engine, I see zero benefit to changing the filter every change. OTOH, I like having immediate oil pressure after I change my oil. On my current car, changing the filter seems to drain most of the pump as well. My car always sound awful on the first start after a filter change (even with the filter primed). And, as I've read on BITOG, noise is everything... I'll be sticking with changing it every other oil change.

 

[GSCJR]

Dodge also. OCI 12,000 kms, FCI 24,000 kms. I noticed this back in the late 90's according to the factory scheduled maintenance plan.

 

[oliveoil]

I use filters for two oil changes on all of my toyotas, total 10-12k miles on each filter and have 233k on one and 75k on another car. Did he same wih our old Subaru, 120k when we sold it.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: Quest
I have a genuine 1895 Nissan Stanza


WOW, that car is old!!

 

[fdcg27]

GM recomended the same forty years ago.
Everything old is new!
Honda probably figured that the oil filter doesn't load up all that much after breakin, and the filter itself remains intact for at least two OCIs.
I doubt that it's cost of ownership, since skipping a five dollar oil filter every other oil change isn't even chump change.
If a maintenace part doesn't really require replacement, then why replace it?

 

[AmishFury]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: Quest
I have a genuine 1895 Nissan Stanza


WOW, that car is old!!


beat me to it!

 

[2oldtommy]

Back in the day, I believe that you would find that most car builders schedule for filter changes was for every other oil change. Going back to the '60's, Chrysler products that I owned called for every other oilchange. Likewise for several Olds that I owned in the '70's. I wasn't until the surface area of the media (and size) was reduced that every oil change replacement was the norm. As far as Honda goes, I can't think of any company that knows more of what it takes for longevity of an engine design. I will continue to follow the owner's manual for whatever cars I own. FWIW--Oldtommy ------- PS------ Keep in mind that an oil filter was not standard equipment on some cars until the '50's. Even the first small block Chevy V8 265ci. of 1955 had an optional bypass type filter. It was not until the following year that a fullflow filter was standard. When you go to the next old car show, take a look at the '55 Chevs. If the oil filter is not mounted on top of the intake manifold, it is not the original engine.

 

[901Memphis]

Because it works.

With a synthetic filter you could probably go 3-4 oil changes per filter.

 

[Rolla07]

Originally Posted By: JOD
Honda have done this for a very long time. I have a hard time believing "cost of ownership" had much to do with the decision since the same Hondas that called for changing the filter every other change also called for 30K valve adjustments and regular brake fluid changes... BTW, Ford used to also call for a filter change every other oil change.

I will say that on some of their engines the filters aren't all that accessible, so it's nice that they officially bless the long change for the filter. In a properly-maintained engine, I see zero benefit to changing the filter every change. OTOH, I like having immediate oil pressure after I change my oil. On my current car, changing the filter seems to drain most of the pump as well. My car always sound awful on the first start after a filter change (even with the filter primed). And, as I've read on BITOG, noise is everything... I'll be sticking with changing it every other oil change.


Noise on the first startup after changing the filter does not mean anything unless you can prove it somehow results in damage to the engine. To each their own, but I would change it out each OCI anyways. Not like its expensive. Im curious to know if a company can measure how much long it takes an avg filter to be fully used (full of dirt) before requiring replacement.. thatd be interesting..

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Im curious to know if a company can measure how much long it takes an avg filter to be fully used (full of dirt) before requiring replacement.. thatd be interesting..


I'm betting that is one of the engineering analysis done by the oil filter engineers. They design a target filter holding capacity, then correlate that to engine use and debris generation by the engine over so many miles taking in to account the driving conditions. That's why every manufacturer has a "normal" and a "severe" usage maintenance schedule.

 

[Kuato]

Because the smart guys at Honda have spent lots of $$ to test their engines and found that two OCIs is the way to go?

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: Rolla07

Noise on the first startup after changing the filter does not mean anything unless you can prove it somehow results in damage to the engine.


I agree. I just don't like it.

Originally Posted By: Rolla07
To each their own, but I would change it out each OCI anyways. Not like its expensive. Im curious to know if a company can measure how much long it takes an avg filter to be fully used (full of dirt) before requiring replacement.. thatd be interesting..


Much like my "feelings" on the startup noise though, your wish to change the filter is based on "feelngs". That cool and all, but let's just both admit that we're just doing what we want, not that there's any "proven data" to support either of our positions.

I know Jim Allen is currently running pressure gauges before and after the oil filter to answer the exact question you pose above. I've cut open a lot of filters that have been used for 15K or so, and my eyeball restriction gauge tells me that they were no where close to being fully-loaded. I realize that's not all that accurate, but there just wasn't much visible contamination. A fuel-injected engine well-maintained since new is a pretty easy environment for an oil filter.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Because it works.

With a synthetic filter you could probably go 3-4 oil changes per filter.

If OCI's are less than 5-6k miles with dino. With synthetic oil and OCI's are 10-15k then at most 1 filter for 2 OCI's.

 

[surfstar]

Originally Posted By: atoalson

So why does Honda recommend one filter for two OCI's?


Obviously because the filter's service life has not been fully consumed by just one OCI.

 

[randomhero439]

Interesting...

My Accord V6
Normal: Oil @ 7500, filter @ 15000
Severe: Oil @ 3750, filter @ 3750

My Civic:
Normal: Oil @ 10000, filter @ 20000
Severe: Oil @ 5000, filter @ 10000

Thoughts?