Why does Honda insist on using timing belts instead of chains?

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Trav said:
On some V8 Audi cars it is about 32+ hrs labor to remove the engine and replace the chains if no broken, rotten bolts are encountered on an old car, that does not include any additional items like oil, filter, coolant, belts, hoses, seals etc. the chain and guides are over 5 grand at the dealer. This is a 10K+ job, nothing for the shade tree, it is a job for an A mechanic with the equipment and tools.

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-assembl...MI6I_M5sfw9AIVigiICR2YBgCIEAQYAyABEgLuBvD_BwE
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I remember about 6-7 years ago I was researching buying a used A8, and I was pretty excited they no longer had the timing belts (because I knew that was going to be a $1,200 dollar service). And THEN I talked to my friend that owns a German repair facility, and he said, yeah that’s great but I am starting to see timing chain failures and that’s a HUGE JOB. And for THIS guy to tell me it’s a huge job? This guy was one of those guys that nothing was ever a big deal in life, everything was “easy”. Know that type? Oh, don’t worry, it’s going to be easy. A piece of cake. No problem.

So, when he told me the timing chain was a big deal, I ran away from the A8 as fast as I could. But I love those cars. I just didn’t need the headache.
 
You did right running away from that one, it is a huge repair bill just waiting to happen. People forget the nylon teeth on metal sprockets years ago, when you drained the oil and little bits of plastic came out you knew it needed a timing chain job. Fortunately this was mostly on old US V8 cars and a very easy job to do.
The biggest issue today is not so much the chain itself but the plastic guides breaking.
 
Audiman said:
Guide‘s cracking, chains stretching due to wear, sprocket wear, chain tensioner failure, oil leaks from covers, increased cost of repair.

Most Timing belts can be replaced in 3-4 hours, cost of repair max £800. Most dealers have a fixed price for this that is discounted as well. Timing chain replacement on a 3.0 TDI Audi can run to £7000 if the camshafts are needed.

I know which I would rather, the maintenance team I have budgeted for and have the money ready to do, NOT the failure that could cost more than the vehicle is worth.

Also, you can get 3 kids, 2 adults and enough stuff for a weeks holiday in a Golf GTI ( my wife’s daily driver) so stop your daughter buying over sized expensive cars that are financially crippling.
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Yeah, like VWs are reliable...
 
Audiman said:
More than some, not as much as others. Like everything in life you get some good ones and bad ones. Which is exactly why I would rather a timing belt than a chain!
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When I had a VW I knew going in it would not be as reliable as a toaster. I didn’t care, I wanted what the vw had, and accepted the trade off. If I could go back in time and redo the decision I’d make the same one. I would not today, different situatio and all, but I did like that car and still miss it.
 
Trav said:
You did right running away from that one, it is a huge repair bill just waiting to happen. People forget the nylon teeth on metal sprockets years ago, when you drained the oil and little bits of plastic came out you knew it needed a timing chain job. Fortunately this was mostly on old US V8 cars and a very easy job to do.
The biggest issue today is not so much the chain itself but the plastic guides breaking.
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Audi V8 Chain setup. German over-engineering destined to fail. Kids with CAD = bad engineering more often than not.

Audi_s4v8_timing chain.webp









GM 3.6 V6 Not great either. IS DOHC in a V really worth it? I think not

GM_3.6 timing system.webp
 
hrv said:
Well after 8 pages of posts on this chain belt debate. I got an idea so we can move on... If you like a belt get a car with a belt... If you like a chain get one with a chain...simple...
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4 with belts

4 with chains
 
billt460 said:
I'd be interested in hearing why people think roller chains are supposedly superior? How is driving a camshaft different than driving the rear wheel on a motorcycle? Harley went to slotted drive belts back in the 80's, and never looked back. They're smoother, quieter, don't stretch as bad, and have no need for lubrication. And many would argue they are actually stronger.

If they wanted a truly superior system, they would have to go to a completely gear driven drive system, like Formula 1 engines do. But that would be prohibitively expensive.
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Kawasaki has gear drive on several of its bikes like the 1600 Meanstreak.
 
My Honda Civic del Sol had a timing belt.
My Honda S2000 has a chain. Not a roller chain, a silent chain. After 20 years, no problems reported in Forums beside the chain tensioner.
The chain drive is and well designed, the chain is as short as possible. It runs smooth and silent as a timing belt.
Honda has build V4 Motorcycle Engines with gear driven DOHC cams in the 80s, the (legendary?) VFR 750 / RC 36 sportstourer.
 
doublebase said:
That’s a good question and you do bring up some good points...these newer engines, the chains, the direct injection and turbos. All a strain on oil.

I’ve been sticking with 5,000 mile oil changes for a while now using synthetic, but I am considering bumping it up to 7,500...I figure that should be fine as my motor is port injected and not really known for oil consumption or other issues.

In all honesty, if you look at the used oil analysis section of this site, most intervals seem to be on the lower side 4,000-6,000 miles, from I’ve seen over there. But part of me does want to try a 10,000 mile interval.
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Use a Fram Ultra to keep the oil clean.
 
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