I like chains but i also like belts. Belts are nice and quiet and simple. Chains on the other hand can be a huge pain. Like many feet long with multiple chains all stuck near the firewall type of pain. Ugh. But a nice simple short chain on a cam in block engine is nice and reliable.
Why does Honda insist on using timing belts instead of chains?
- Thread starter grampi
- Start date
- Status
And the statistical risk of having an interference engine is very high these days.
So..... As far as frequent oil changes helping longevity of chain driven camshaft set ups, how often? There is a lot of talk about extended oil changes here. Along with running oil filters until the Asteroid hits.
Now, when it comes to timing chains, all of a sudden more often is way better.. (Which I agree with). So how often? If chains hate dirty oil, and shear the hell out of it, how often should it be changed? Based on helping your timing chain last as long as possible?
Now, when it comes to timing chains, all of a sudden more often is way better.. (Which I agree with). So how often? If chains hate dirty oil, and shear the hell out of it, how often should it be changed? Based on helping your timing chain last as long as possible?
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2014
- Messages
- 3,001
That’s a good question and you do bring up some good points...these newer engines, the chains, the direct injection and turbos. All a strain on oil.
I’ve been sticking with 5,000 mile oil changes for a while now using synthetic, but I am considering bumping it up to 7,500...I figure that should be fine as my motor is port injected and not really known for oil consumption or other issues.
In all honesty, if you look at the used oil analysis section of this site, most intervals seem to be on the lower side 4,000-6,000 miles, from I’ve seen over there. But part of me does want to try a 10,000 mile interval.
Piece of cake.
So, don’t buy a Honda with a belt.
JHZR2
Staff member
Huh?
Where are the trashed cars all over with cracked pistons, due to tb failing?
Statistically it’s low because belts are designed for the long term, kept clean and out of the elements, and don’t fail even when abused for tens of thousands of additional miles over the maintenance interval (like OP’s condition).
The aggregate risk of an interference engine and a failed belt is low as far as I can tell.
JHZR2
Staff member
That would require users evaluating wear over intervals, and having the ability to track those data across multiple vehicles, oils, etc. It also requires a useful way to assess the wear level. The MB diesel folks did this for a long time. I’m not sure others have.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2011
- Messages
- 5,445
I could be wrong. I thought it was subpar materials used in the chain that caused premature wear.
Your oil tank must be at least as large as your fuel tank, it must be full of Amsoil SS, and you must run a dual-bypass filtration system.
Only then can you do 10,000 miles oil changes.
I would have to agree. Simply based on how expensive of a failure it would be. (Usually requiring an engine replacement on an interference type engine timing belt failure). Today most all of them are interference type. You just don't hear about that many of them breaking.
Chains are not maintenance free in many cars.
They can require regular replacement and some are extraordinarily expensive to replace when the time comes. Modern Audis, for example. Timing chain on some Audis is several thousand dollars.
Some classic Mercedes V-8s require engine removal in order to replace the chain, and it's good for about 100,000 miles. Engine removal to do a chain is a whole lot more than that Honda mechanic was going to charge you for a belt!
My 1970 Ford had a 302 V-8 that jumped time due to timing chain wear. Small block V-8. Jumped a tooth (took a while to figure out my no start condition, that's another story). A stout chain, made of steel, running on steel gears, but with nylon buffers to quiet it down. Nylon wore out and it failed at about 120,000 miles.
The "Good ole' days of timing chains" weren't all that good when you look closely.
They can require regular replacement and some are extraordinarily expensive to replace when the time comes. Modern Audis, for example. Timing chain on some Audis is several thousand dollars.
Some classic Mercedes V-8s require engine removal in order to replace the chain, and it's good for about 100,000 miles. Engine removal to do a chain is a whole lot more than that Honda mechanic was going to charge you for a belt!
My 1970 Ford had a 302 V-8 that jumped time due to timing chain wear. Small block V-8. Jumped a tooth (took a while to figure out my no start condition, that's another story). A stout chain, made of steel, running on steel gears, but with nylon buffers to quiet it down. Nylon wore out and it failed at about 120,000 miles.
The "Good ole' days of timing chains" weren't all that good when you look closely.
I had mentioned this in another thread but the cost of replacing a belt or a chain has increased due to the labor to just access them. For many vehicles now you have to pull the engine or dismantle the body.
Belts have gotten better. I remember when 60,000 was the usual belt replacement schedule. I suppose if I had a choice I would go with chains but that is no guarantee.
Belts have gotten better. I remember when 60,000 was the usual belt replacement schedule. I suppose if I had a choice I would go with chains but that is no guarantee.
agreed
All this talk about guides and buffers wearing out. How is it my Corolla is still on the original timing chain, and all of its associated parts, with 423K miles and never needing any repairs?
On that same thought I’ve heard of people running a long time on a belt without a care. Your Corolla has done well for you.
My Honda Fit had a chain. 1.5L. One of the quieter ones. With all the tensioner and guide issues and VVT problems I would prefer a
belt. Grampi just had luck on his toyota,.
But that is cruel and but usual punishment having to drive a corrola for 75K miles ne'remind 432K miles !
belt. Grampi just had luck on his toyota,.
But that is cruel and but usual punishment having to drive a corrola for 75K miles ne'remind 432K miles !
Honda OHV lawnmower engines have a belt. In oil.
Conservative design that pushed no limits?
Don't agree on that. Not a good question since there's no general answer to it.
Some cars (and chains) are happy with 10,000 mile OCIs under certain (not too
hard) conditions while some cars (chains) require 5,000 mile OCIs under certain
(harder) conditions. Does it help anyone? Probably not. We need to debate the
issue individually each time. I don't even mentioned sort of oil and filter or the
question how long you want to own the car.
That said, I like toothed belts but all my current cars use chains. Chains used to
be designed for the life of the vehicle. I remember Mercedes using duplex chains
but that's history. Nowadays chains are more slim due to both space and cost
restrictions and at the same time are more strained due to HPFPs and soot in DI
engines. Even more they're harder to replace especially when mounted on rear
(> BMW N47 Diesel).
I still trust the chain on my DI engined GTI more than I do the brittle chain on my
PSA engined Mini even though it's port injected.
.
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
