Why Do Knowledgeable Folks on Here use 20 wt Oil

[Hermann]

Come on, list 20 of 'em for us ! Love it when you do that !

not really

 

[Hall]

I am using what the manufacture recommends

You don't know the difference between "recommend" and "require".

 

[CKN]

If you get that message the engine is probably already toast.

No-that message comes on well before the motor blows up.

 

[oil pan 4]

Good grief - its like the old days when recommendations for xw20 oils started coming out.

I ran three F150's out to over 190,000 miles before I sold them using 5w20 oil. The '04 had issues with the timing chains, but no issues with bearings...

What oil were you using?
Bet it was one of the many 20 weights that are almost a 30.

 

[oil pan 4]

No-that message comes on well before the motor blows up.

Whats the threshold on that? Like 270f?

 

[JeffKeryk]

Once I accidently dumped a jug of Idemitsu 0w20 in our beloved '06 TSX that calls for 5w30. Dang thing loved it.
Once I accidently dumped a jug of M1 5w30 in our beloved GS350 F Sport that calls for 0w20. Dang thing loved it.

I''m sooooo fired. What's a poor boy to do?

 

[dippschtick]

Perhaps it is time for BITOG to split into two separate sites: BITOGthin.com and BITOGthick.com. There is no resolution to this question. Whaddaya think of the two-state solution?

Sounds antisemi-sythetic to me.

 

[PontiacHO]

We all know more than the engineers that designed our engines….right?

 

[iCurious]

There are still vehicles on the road with 300k miles running on 0W-20. As long as you change the oil on time and don't let it run low on oil. I don't see why it can't last at least 200k miles from using what the manufacturer specifies..

OCI intervals, brand, grade of oil is all subjective..

 

[Patman]

I would consider myself pretty knowledgeable and that’s exactly why I use 0w20. Simply put, I drive my 2016 Civic very gently, it’s used 90% on the highway and for me I want to get better MPG. Even if that only amounts to 0.5 MPG, it all adds up when I’m driving 20,000 miles a year. The 2.0 engine in this car is port injected so fuel dilution is not an issue here. For me there would be no benefit whatsoever with a 30 weight oil at all. The engine simply isn’t stressed enough. It lives an easy life.

Now if I had a GR Corolla for instance, I would definitely not use 0w20 in it, as I would drive that car pretty hard, and I would very likely have it tuned for more boost as well. In that case I would run something like ESP 0w30.

Knowledgeable people on here know that the determination factor for choosing the right viscosity is how you use the vehicle.

 

[kschachn]

There are still vehicles on the road with 300k miles running on 0W-20. As long as you change the oil on time and don't let it run low on oil. I don't see why it can't last at least 200k miles from using what the manufacturer specifies..

OCI intervals, brand, grade of oil is all subjective..

That’s not really the point. The issue comes in when people say that an engine is “designed for” (as in requires) a grade, or that mechanical problems will arise by using a heavier grade. Modern engines that recommend thinner oils will likely be fine under most circumstances and will not incur excessive wear.

I use a higher grade to reduce wear since I keep my vehicles for a long time. I also want to mitigate the issues with fuel dilution, especially in the Tiguan. Using a VW 504 00 oil instead of 508 00 is beneficial to me and to the engine in that regard.

 

[Virtuoso]

The UOA I recently posted from my Hyundai with 0w20 was so good I can't imagine a 0w30 doing any better given my conditions and OCI.

 

[Glenda W.]

Not again…

 

[jetman]

Yes we understand that the differences in UOA analysis between 20 and 30 wt oil are slight. But we also know 30 wt protects better. The 3 factor Bearing Graph says that.

We also know that 20 wt. oil was first considered 20 years ago to improve gas mileage. It was shown that engines at that time would not last to 150 K miles as they would be required. So they lowered that requirement. And fast forward engines were redesigned with larger bearings and bearing surfaced to provide for less wear.

Still in light of this there is every reason to suspect that an engine will last longer over the longer haul and/or use less oil over that period by using 30 wt. oil. So do knowledgeable folks value the fact that engines will give 3% to 6% better mileage??

 

[Al]

UOA's can't be used for that purpose.

No, SAE 20 grade oils have been around since before WWII. I've seen Gray Marine engines with brass grade plaques on the final drive that listed SAE 20, SAE 30, SAE 40 and the intended temperature range for each grade in the engine.
Yes I realize that. But read my post. The switch was made around 2000. Wish I could find the SAE pub tghat discussed engine life..
No, the wider bearing changes were made to accommodate oil grades BELOW the SAE 20 threshold; below the 2.6cP HTHS limit, which is where design changes need to be made. It was Honda, Toyota, Nissan...etc that were experimenting with grades that weren't even ratified in J300 at the time, but had HTHS viscosities below 2.6cP, that discovered the need for wider bearings, along with surface coatings and other mechanisms to keep wear to an acceptable level.
Bearing surface area needs to change3 with lower viscosities. To accomodate load/rpm/viscosity graph. But we are talking in reducing from 10ish to 8ish cSts.
There isn't a 3-6% improvement in mileage going from an xW-30 to an xW-20, it would be much less than that, based on what Mobil shared with their AFE oils.

As long as oil temperature is properly controlled (and many applications that call for xW-20 have heat exchangers for the oil to keep it in a specific temperature range), xW-20 is generally safe (it is, after all, spec'd by the OEM). However, some applications, with fuel dilution and poor oil temperature control, I wouldn't feel safe running an xW-20.

So, for me personally, it comes down to application. Just like I prefer an additive package with non-neutered AW chemistry.

 

[Al]

Surely you have some technical data to back this up?

Yea I was going to question that.

 

[iCurious]

That’s not really the point. The issue comes in when people say that an engine is “designed for” (as in requires) a grade, or that mechanical problems will arise by using a heavier grade. Modern engines that recommend thinner oils will likely be fine under most circumstances and will not incur excessive wear.

I use a higher grade to reduce wear since I keep my vehicles for a long time. I also want to mitigate the issues with fuel dilution, especially in the Tiguan. Using a VW 504 00 oil instead of 508 00 is beneficial to me and to the engine in that regard.

Not doubting about that at all. However, I am just implying it's all subjective. Either way, the engine will still last 200k miles. Changing the oil at the appropriate time and don't let it go into oil starvation is what matters the most.

 

[Kalle.J]

I agree let's make two separate sites: BITOGthin.com and BITOGthick.com

Put 100w in yours if you want. I am using what the manufacture recommends

Which one the United States CAFE corporation specfied weight (singular) or rest of world recommended weights (plural) ??

 

[Shel_B]

20 grades were introduced in the 1950's and 60's. Engine design plays an important roll in terms of wear.

Don't overlook the additive package. Many anti-wear elements are built into the additive packages, some of which help "strengthen" the thinner viscosity oils that are frequently used today.

 

[kschachn]

20 grades were introduced in the 1950's and 60's. Engine design plays an important roll in terms of wear.

Yes but SAE grade requirements have changed numerous times since then. Today’s 20-grade oils are not the same as they were 50 years ago.