Why did Ford go from 5W20 to 5W30?

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Good post - some of us stray off the plantation by lost trust - (HDEO & this subject = Ford alone) - but in reality there is an abundance of oils in the USA that normally will meet widely used specs. (GM Dexos oil/ATF makes sense to me).
Perhaps this competition is bred by the decades of 3k/3month changers ... IMO - it took the OEM's to start the movement away from that ...
 
Originally Posted By: Scdevon
It's hard to believe that Direct Injection dilutes engine oil more than port injection in the real world. Wouldn't a more efficient injection method result in less unburned fuel in the oil as well as fewer emissions, better drivability, etc, etc,? Is Ford using DI as an excuse to quietly step off of the 5W-20 Bandwagon?


DI typically means higher compression ratios = leveraging rich fuel mixture to prevent detonation = dilution of oil. It would be interesting to compare same DI engine, under the same conditions/service, with 94 octane vs 87 octane gas and compare viscosity and dilution numbers.
 
We have two Ecoboost 2.7 F-150's. I ran 91 octane (at 6400 ft. altitude) for the first couple of tanks, and still run about 88-89 octane. There was a strong gas smell on the dipstick, for both trucks, from the start, even after oil changes. Interestingly as I just posted, I took a 2800 mile road trip, with a fresh batch of M1 EP, and I am smelling no gas at all on the dipstick.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Ammofirst
How about running gear oil for my next oci : 75w-90 or 75w-140 ?


A 75w-90 is roughly the same viscosity as a 5w-40.

A 75w-140 is close to a 20w-50.


Would the 75W-140 be that much thicker when cold? They are both a 75W.

Edit: Just looked at the Redline site at their gear oils, the -140 is much thicker at 40C, interesting.
 
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PC's 80w140 plays at the thicker end of the 140 scale than 75w140 Mobil, that, if any thinner it would be a 75W115.
Many of the synthetic 80W140s are only a few degrees C away from passing 75W, or good to about -35C.
 
I don't think this is the death knell of thin oils. Rather, they are the future.

I think this is an example of the penny pinchers and number crunchers at Ford over-riding the decision made by engineers and designers. As was suspected, they needed CAFE points and this was an easy way to both get those mpg points, and , ultimately, sell more cars. I think it is more evidence that we need to be our own advocates, our own researchers, and that blindly following the rec of a manufacturer comes with its own set of perils and caveats.

I have a buddy who runs a local repo operation and he runs F450s with Triton V10s. Has had 4 trucks cease up from piston scoring over a relatively short period...all of which were replaced under warranty by the dealer. They still force him to use 5w-20 (Penz Plat in this case) to keep the warranty on the new engines...even though the head mechanic at one of the largest/busiest Ford dealers in the state reported after tear-down of the last engine (he did all 4 engines) that it was likely a lack of MOFT combined with elevated oil temps during short bursts of full throttle activity after long periods of idling in hot weather.

Everything with a grain of salt, mind you. For engines which were designed to use 5w-20 from the outset, it's likely just fine. However, even then we see Coyote and Voodoo V8s that call for 5w-50 for track use....which is not that much harder than aggressive stop-and-go driving.

But, the lesson here is that these ford modular engines were designed with 5w-30 in mind (with the manual even permitting 5w-40 and 10w-40 for severe use in hot environs)....and then they were back spec'd to the thinner oil. Virtually nothing mechanical about the engines was changed; the bearing geometries were the same, as were the piston skirts/oil jets, as was the oil pump and the oil coolers (if optioned).
 
Originally Posted By: Peter_480
So bottom line - I could switch to 5W30 in my 4.6L Econline with no issues. It's not like it gets good fuel economy to begin with.

Yes. You could run 20w50 in it if you wanted to.

5 or 10w30 and it will be happy
 
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010

Yes. You could run 20w50 in it if you wanted to.

5 or 10w30 and it will be happy


What's the reasoning behind 20W50? Forgive my ignorance.
 
Not that you should, but that you could. In summer anyway

The point being that a thick oil is not going to make an engine explode. A thin one in the wrong application will increase wear. 5w30 is good in just about any car or truck that's not being used for extreme service.
 
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Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
Not that you should, but that you could. In summer anyway

The point being that a thick oil is not going to make an engine explode. A thin one in the wrong application will increase wear. 5w30 is good in just about any car or truck that's not being used for extreme service.


Thanks, I will be switching to 5W30 in my truck from now on. The 20W50 probably wouldn't work since I don't put a lot of miles on it, and I have it on a 6 month schedule anyway that does overlap some cold months here in the hot/cold northeast.
 
Originally Posted By: Triton_330
Originally Posted By: dblshock
Ford knows.

Originally Posted By: dblshock
Ford knew.

Why are you saying the same thing?

How about, "Ford is going to know?"
 
Originally Posted By: Ammofirst
How about running gear oil for my next oci : 75w-90 or 75w-140 ?


Perfect example of the "straw man" argument. This happens when the debate has been clearly decided.
 
Originally Posted By: igs
Originally Posted By: CT8
What would make the 5W-20 oil better?


Nothing. 5W-20 sux.


My last three Fords(combined mileage of around 425K at 10K OCIs) have had M1 0-20AFE in the sump with great results. Very clean upper end, no sign of wear, zero oil consumption in 10K OCI, great cold starts and smooth engine operation even at temps of 95 to 110F, and slight MPG increase.
 
not a ford but new at the time 13 2.5 LS malibu with DI, dropped orig oil at a thou, put in dexos spec 5-20 + by 4 thou on the clock it was lookin for its 3rd qt!!! dump a go to 10-30 + at 40 some thou its using about a qt yearly on mobil I extended perf, so much for watery 5-20's!!!!
 
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Ford isn't the only one calling for 5w-30 in turbo GDI engines and 5w-20 in others. I suspect fuel dilution concerns are one of the reasons and wouldn't be surprised to see them go back to 5w-20 once all the LSPI issues are fixed, as these issues are why turbo GDI engines tend to run a rich tune in the first place.

Many owners have sen good high mileage service with no above average consumption issues in cars that run 5w-20 or 0w-20 oil. While fuel economy is a reason manufactures spec this oil, I'm still of the opinion that for 5w-20 is perfectly fine as long as it is recommended in the owner's manual for the type of driving conditions that the vehicle will be operated in. Usually some other major failure sends a vehicle to the crusher long before the engine fails, assuming proper maintenance and no major design flaws.
 
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