Why are Prius cartridge filters pricey?

[OilAnalyzer]

Even if only 100,000 customers had to spend $7000 to replace broken engines is too many. The stories posted all across the net from customers say, "I had dealer records showing I changed the oil on time but still Toyota voided my warranty." In some cases the engine died as young as 20,000 miles but still the customer was blamed.

Originally Posted By: Garak
We know they can at least buck (especially at initial contact with dealer techs) the issue if there's an aftermarket filter there. Has anyone seen a tech at a dealer try to hedge on a
Wow I had no idea. So using a PureOne in my Toyota might make them void the warranty?

Maybe I better stick to the 55% efficient Toyota filter. Have you read the stories of such denials? Of course being hybrid its probably the battery that wear out long before the engine.

 

[Garak]

No, of course using a Pureone won't void your warranty. Let's stay focused here, and ignore rubbish like class action lawsuits or baloney like a Pureone voiding a warranty.

My point was very clear, and I didn't intend any extra, hidden meaning. I stated that no one ever got into trouble from the dealer for using an OEM oil filter. That's it. Sometimes the OEM filter is well priced. Sometimes it's more convenient to buy it at the dealer, particularly if the product is harder to obtain.

For heaven's sake, I've taken brand new vehicles, doubled the OCI on conventional from day one, and never used an OEM filter on them and never had an issue. I've also used OEM filters (notably AC and Motorcraft) without hesitation and often as a preferred option.

My biggest concern is that I don't want to have to be scouring the internet to buy oil filters, unless they have a deal that is simply too good to pass up. Outside of bulk purchases or a product that isn't available locally, that's pretty much a non-starter. I used to buy oil filters (German Bosch, Mann, Mahle, and Hengst) for my Audi online when I was ordering something else for the vehicle. However, the notion of me going online to order a handful of filters for something like my F-150 and its ubiquitous FL-1A or equivalent strikes me as utterly ridiculous. Rock Auto is just about the only option that even begins to make sense.

 

[OilAnalyzer]

Oh. I don't run conventional anything.

I use filters & other personal items to round-out my Amazon purchases and reach $35 for free shipping. Last night I bought two $15 books + a Fram filter to avoid paying $6 shipping.

Put another way instead of $36 for two books to be delivered home, I paid $36 for two books to be delivered + a bonus filter.

 

[Garak]

Well, that works, too. Amazon up here is strange and won't sell filters. If I could buy books to pad up to free shipping, I'd have done that ages ago.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: Garak
No, of course using a Pureone won't void your warranty. Let's stay focused here, and ignore rubbish like class action lawsuits or baloney like a Pureone voiding a warranty.


OK but it's hard to stay focused when someone pulls out numbers like 4 million dead sludged engines, and defends themselves by pulling more numbers out of the same orifice like $7K engine changes for 100,000 customers! (For $7K I could get TWO new or rebuilt engines...) And of course no links for support data.

If we want to talk about filters let's talk about filters and not endless dead horse beating about a non-filter issue with magic fairy numbers.

 

[RF Overlord]

OEM cartridge filter for my B-I-L's '09 Corolla is $5 at the local dealer. They don't know me from Adam, so that's not a special price, either. I can't fathom why the filter for a Prius should be so much more...

I know, some here will lament that it's "only 55% efficient"...but I still maintain that Toyota designed the engine and spec'd the filter for it and I've not heard of any huge failure rate of Toyota engines that have been run using the OEM filters. I don't think the filters had anything to do with the infamous sludging issues...

 

[OilAnalyzer]

No I was just making the point that Toyota has voided warranties even if the customer ran Toyota oil with Toyota filter at a Toyota dealer. I run the synthetic Toyota oil but 20 micron filtering (nominal) is not good when I have option of 10 micron (Fram, Mobil) or even 5 (pureOne).

LINK: I've read these stories for several years now (across multiple sites). Here's just one of them & it holds hundreds of customer complaints with sludges engines. In the 2nd post a customer says the dealer told her $6500 for a new engine installation (very close to the $7000 I stated).

Ironically Toyota is now involved in another class-action lawsuit with oil problems. Something about the engine "eating" all the oil in just 4000 miles (I'm not sure because I only just discovered it). I'm glad the Prius engine has been shown to be reliable.

LINK http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: OilAnalyzer
No I was just making the point that Toyota has voided warranties even if the customer ran Toyota oil with Toyota filter at a Toyota dealer.


Why? Because the maintenance schedule wasn't adhered to?

 

[OilAnalyzer]

dealer records show customers adhered to the oil change schedules (as presented in court). Even so their warranties were voided. I'm not sure where this belief that a corporation never makes mistakes? Ever carmaker has at least one case in history of screwing-up.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: OilAnalyzer
No I was just making the point that Toyota has voided warranties even if the customer ran Toyota oil with Toyota filter at a Toyota dealer.


Originally Posted By: OilAnalyzer
dealer records show customers adhered to the oil change schedules (as presented in court). Even so their warranties were voided. I'm not sure where this belief that a corporation never makes mistakes? Ever carmaker has at least one case in history of screwing-up.

If the customer used OEM oil & filters, and adhered to the maintenance schedule, then Toyota must have some pretty slippery lawyers. Doesn't make sense, must be more to the story than what appears on the surface.

 

[fdcg27]

I'm not a fan of Toys and there is probably no other automaker who advertises its products with as much mindless hype.
Still, there are too many 200K+ Toyotas running around that have had the indifferent service that vehicles not targeted at enthusiasts typically get for there to be any systematic problems with the engines or the OEM oil filters.
These are also not $6-7K engines, more like about half that complete with R&R from any decent shop.
There is also the story behind the story.
Yes, many of us have read of blameless owners who carefully had their cars maintained by Toyota dealers only to be denied warranty coverage when the inevitable engine failure occurred.
This portrayal strains the credulity of anyone who's spent much time maintaining and wrenching around on cars.
It just doesn't happen like that.
Without serious neglect or abuse, engines don't simply die unless there is a serious mechanical failure having nothing to do with the oil or filter used or the interval that oil was run.
Of course, running an engine out of oil is another matter and I've never seen an OM which didn't direct the owner to check the oil on some regular basis along with the caveat that consumption might be high during breakin.
You've revived a classic Toyota fable.
We haven't had a storyteller here spinning this yarn in at least a few years.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Doesn't make sense, must be more to the story than what appears on the surface.

There always is. After all, I'd guesstimate that a majority of the sludge complaints we see involved someone changing their oil with a top end synthetic every 3000 miles, of course. It seems that every sludged engine is negligence that doesn't cause a problem, so the owner doesn't care (I changed it once in 30,000 miles and it's still running so that's good enough), or negligence that does cause a problem and then is denied by a an extremely dubious claim of following the severe service interval to the letter.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: OilAnalyzer
No I was just making the point that Toyota has voided warranties even if the customer ran Toyota oil with Toyota filter at a Toyota dealer.


Originally Posted By: OilAnalyzer
dealer records show customers adhered to the oil change schedules (as presented in court). Even so their warranties were voided. I'm not sure where this belief that a corporation never makes mistakes? Ever carmaker has at least one case in history of screwing-up.

If the customer used OEM oil & filters, and adhered to the maintenance schedule, then Toyota must have some pretty slippery lawyers. Doesn't make sense, must be more to the story than what appears on the surface.


The way I understood, Toyota initially accused some owners of falsifying receipts from some third party oil change places.

I can see how some teenagers who forgot to change oil used his/her Photoshopping skills from time to time.

On the other hand, I can see how some sleazy fast lube places used non-detergent oil by "mistake" too.

But it was my understanding that Toyota accepted the problem as valid when some of their customers had documented service in the Toyota service computers.

 

[OilAnalyzer]

The issue isn't quality but lack of warranty integrity : Voiding the guarantee & blaming faultless customers (many of ehom did service at Toyota dealers).
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
If the customer used OEM oil & filters, and adhered to the maintenance schedule, then Toyota must have some pretty slippery lawyers.
Since Toyota was sued by over a dozen states + the Federal Trade Commission it appears the word "slippery" should be replaced with "stupid". Though I suspect the real blame goes to accountants who didn't want to buy new engines.

Who knows? Maybe the lawyers/accountants were fired & now they're advising GM with their ignition lawsuits.

Ford had exploding pintos.
- Hyundai got caught lying on MPG scores
- Honda hybrids have a 35% battery failure rate.
- Volkswagen TDIs have fuel pumps that implode
- Mazdas new diesel sedans are dumping diesel in the oil pans (Mazda told customers to change their oil every 1000 miles)
- on and on

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted By: OilAnalyzer
I'm not sure where this belief that a corporation never makes mistakes? Ever carmaker has at least one case in history of screwing-up.

I don't know where that belief comes from either, but it certainly wasn't from me. I too can quote a litany of ills of any manufacturer you've ever heard of... but when I do it is from personal experience, and I don't make up inflated numbers to bolster my point.

 

[Hootbro]

Nothing special about the Prius oil filter. Same one that is used in the Corolla. Not hard to find and you can OEM one's either at the dealership or off Ebay in quantity for cheaper than these aftermarket ones.

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

Any part for any hybrid is going to be pricey. Nothing but a marketing gimmick. If all vehicles used the cartridge type filter, they would be priced like the spin-on filter. I had a 1967 Toyota Corona that used a cartridge filter which was only available through the dealer. They weren't that costly though.

 

[PandaBear]

My Toyota dealer only charge $5 if you buy 10 cartridge filters for my Lexus, so I don't see the reason for paying $7 ea on aftermarket.

 

[FetchFar]

This 2013 Prius oil filter --- click here for picture --- has no end caps? First I've seen in a cartridge like that. I use cartridges in my GM and BMW, all have end caps.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: FetchFar
This 2013 Prius oil filter --- click here for picture --- has no end caps? First I've seen in a cartridge like that. I use cartridges in my GM and BMW, all have end caps.


That's a common Toyota filter design. The Toyota spin-ons made in Thailand have the same no end cap design. Each pleat is glued at the ends to seal them.