Why are minivans going to lower profile tires?

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Quote:


When I bought my 2016 Tiguan.... I didn't want the 19" wheels on the mid-trim R-line and top-trim SEL.

So, I bought a SE, which was upper mid-trim, in between the R-line and SEL, and got me 18" wheels.... yeah, I had to sacrifice dual-zone automatic climate control, leather trim interior, upgraded stereo and power folding mirrors....

I had a choice.... and I made my choice.

There are plenty of vw fanboys just waiting to gobble up these large oem wheels. So buy the car with the options that you want, and if it happens to come with huge rims, sell them and buy yourself smaller ones. You will probably still come out ahead.


that means I have to buy 2 wheelsets. One 18" for 3-seasons. Then also 16" for winter.

And... the 19" alloys don't sell too well afterwards

so... I just had to buy 16" steelies.

 

[dan_erickson]

It blows my mind that 18 and 19 inch wheels are just huge you guys. I guess you all like the floating with no contact to the road feeling of a 70 series tire lol.

 

[VeeDubb]

Originally Posted By: dan_erickson
It blows my mind that 18 and 19 inch wheels are just huge you guys. I guess you all like the floating with no contact to the road feeling of a 70 series tire lol.


I don't think most people mind bigger wheels on cars that emphasize handling. But this is about minivans where people typically think ride comfort and practicality.

However, there are a lot of compelling arguments for going from 16 to 17s on newer minivans. Still don't know why we need 19s on a Sienna.

 

[CapriRacer]

A couple of thoughts:

When asbestos was banned a number of years ago, this forced the vehicle manufacturers to think of ways to compensate for the loss in performance of the brakes. One of the easiest ways was to increase the diameter of the rotors - which, in turn, resulted in a larger wheel diameter. Since the wheel wells are only so big, that meant lower aspect ratios.

That coupled with the way low profile tires look have continued the trend.

I don't understand this, but it is obvious there is a large segment of society that will by a car with all the fancy dodads - and pay extra for the privilege! That further drives the vehicle designers towards low profile tires.

As proof: I had a guy tell me he hated the ride on his Audi Sport and wanted me (the company, actually) to fix it - which meant taking off his 40 series tires! He had no clue that the word "SPORT" meant anything about handling.

 

[Garak]

Maybe he could have bought a Town Car.

 

[Klutch9]

I think one of the biggest reasons for overall rim/wheel diameter increasing, aside from vehicles getting bigger, is that the vehicles' "beltline" keeps getting higher to meet crash standards. Look at cars of 10, 20 years ago. The entire vehicle was much lower to the ground, as it pertains to the bottoms of the windows, tops of the quarter panels, etc. On the basis of scale, smaller rims/wheels worked fine, and looked proportional. Accordingly, wheel arches were also smaller, but everything still looked right. Think back to the late 90's/early 2000's when people were putting DUBS on their cars, both old and new... those 20" rims looked insanely ill-fitting and way too large, often times not even properly fitting into the wheel arch on larger vehicles.

Nowadays, the Boxster and Cayman (which are smaller cars in my opinion) have a 20" wheel option, and it doesn't look ill-fitting or out of place, because the wheel arches are sized to match, and the beltline of the car is higher, so it all works. Ride quality and every other factor aside, I think this is why rims are getting so huge.

As it pertains to minivans, I can tell you as a minivan driver that I would gladly welcome a smaller-profile tire than I have on the van now. I have the base size 16" steelies with 225/70r16 tires... it's like driving a couch! I'd gladly step down to the 17" 60-series tires if I could find an OEM wheel set for cheap.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: dan_erickson
If you do not like big wheels with low pro tires then don't buy it and stop complaining. Pretty darn simple.


Easier said than done. It is reasonably easy to avoid 18-19" wheels, but in some trims to get a vehicle outfit with other items that are desired, you have to take the obnoxious and expensive wheel and tire options too...

No choice.


When I bought my 2016 Tiguan.... I didn't want the 19" wheels on the mid-trim R-line and top-trim SEL.

So, I bought a SE, which was upper mid-trim, in between the R-line and SEL, and got me 18" wheels.... yeah, I had to sacrifice dual-zone automatic climate control, leather trim interior, upgraded stereo and power folding mirrors....

I had a choice.... and I made my choice.


You made your "choice", which was to sacrifice a large list of items that, given the use of the term "sacrifice" (your word choice), means it was not a positive end state.

Therein lies the problem. too many "packages", too many obnoxious big wheels (with small brakes, which makes their utility dubious), and not enough customization.

Slammed down ones throats and the choice is to take it and smile, or to sacrifice.

So no choice really.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: dan_erickson
It blows my mind that 18 and 19 inch wheels are just huge you guys. I guess you all like the floating with no contact to the road feeling of a 70 series tire lol.


Theres a difference between balloon tires and trying to again compensate for other parts by driving a "swagger wagon" (their term, not mine), that makes one feel (incorrectly) sporty or masculine, because you have "performance" tires on a minivan...

Id love for you to indicate how there isn't diminishing or negative returns going to these aesthetic "improvements", where the brake rotors aren't upsized to fit and at least give some stopping performance on a heavy vehicle...

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/effects-of-upsized-wheels-and-tires-tested

 

[rslifkin]

Upsized wheels and tires aren't always heavier. My summer setup for my Jeep, which is 255/60R17s on 17x8 wheels are almost exactly the same weight as the stock 16x7s with 225/70R16s. The wheels weigh the same (22 lbs each), and I could easily find lighter ones if I desired. Depending on what tire you buy, they're right around 30 lbs each in either size (the 255/60R17 is usually about a pound heavier due to the increased width).

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
Soon, those of us who are cheapskates and bought minivans for practicality reasons will have no more options

I'm sure when 14" or 15" wheels stopped being available on minivans, people were complaining, too. Time marches on. Eventually, those newer larger tire sizes become more common and more reasonably priced. I remember years ago when 205/55/16 tires used to be thought of as very exclusive, high performance, expensive option. Today, they are one of the most common and reasonably priced sizes.

Remember one of the best sport car, if not the best, of 1991 ? Acura NSX had 15" front tire and 16" on rear.

And 2000 Honda S2000 had 16" tires all around.

Most family sedan now has at least 16" tire and larger up to 19" as option.

Sure, 18-19" may look good but it doesn't look good at all when time for a new set.



The NSX also had smaller overall diameters than a lot of the newer vehicles with big wheels, so it didn't necessarily have any more sidewall height.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: dan_erickson
It blows my mind that 18 and 19 inch wheels are just huge you guys. I guess you all like the floating with no contact to the road feeling of a 70 series tire lol.

I do like more of a slip angle when driving. Even for autocross I liked how my sumitomo HTR 200 195/60R13 balloon tires worked on my Neon. They were a great street tire too, lots of grip and rode smooth and quiet. I also ran some 205/50R15's toyo R-comp tires for autocross and they were more precise and much grippier but, if the grip level was equal, I'd rather have the higher profile tire.
I also think the higher profile tire helps the car feel more lively too in slaloms or S-curves. The tire is side loaded and then rebounds a bit when you change direction, makes a fwd car feel more neutral I guess.
I'm getting some decent summer tires for the Focus and most aren't made in 15" anymore and some not even in 16"!

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
OEM of 2014 Accord LX is 205/65-16, you hybrid is heavier because of extra weight of electric motor, battery and other components so that Honda engineer thinks that 225 is appropriate for hybrid.

Are you saying that there is no 205 size tire that meets a load spec of 94 or better?

I find that dubious.

It is possible to find 205 with load rating of 94 or better. But the 225 with 94 load is better suite the car that weight 400-500 lbs heavier, especially the handling portion of the drive. I can say that the Accord hybrid with 225 tire takes the curve at higher lateral G than 205 tire of the same load rate and same PSI. Tire width is dependent on vehicle weight and also dependent on the performance the engineer likes to design for that particular vehicle.

You have BMW 135 right ? If you have a chance to try 1 size narrower tire with similar diameter(with higher aspect ratio), you will see that the handling of the BMW would suffer compares with OEM size.

I tried different sizes for my S2000 some years ago, OEM sizes: F 215/45-17 R 245/40-17, after market size: F 225/45-17 R 255/40-17. The overall diameter increased by 1/2" and width increased by only 10 mm, but the handling improved substantial. I could take 270 degree on ramp at 50 MPH while the OEM was only 45 MPH. OEM tire was Bridgestone RE050 which was 1 of the best summer tire 10-12 years ago. The after market tire was all season Falken FK452 and it wasn't at the top 5.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
Soon, those of us who are cheapskates and bought minivans for practicality reasons will have no more options

I'm sure when 14" or 15" wheels stopped being available on minivans, people were complaining, too. Time marches on. Eventually, those newer larger tire sizes become more common and more reasonably priced. I remember years ago when 205/55/16 tires used to be thought of as very exclusive, high performance, expensive option. Today, they are one of the most common and reasonably priced sizes.


...until you nail a curb and now get to cough up $300+ for the wheel you just gouged.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
Soon, those of us who are cheapskates and bought minivans for practicality reasons will have no more options

I'm sure when 14" or 15" wheels stopped being available on minivans, people were complaining, too. Time marches on. Eventually, those newer larger tire sizes become more common and more reasonably priced. I remember years ago when 205/55/16 tires used to be thought of as very exclusive, high performance, expensive option. Today, they are one of the most common and reasonably priced sizes.

Remember one of the best sport car, if not the best, of 1991 ? Acura NSX had 15" front tire and 16" on rear.

And 2000 Honda S2000 had 16" tires all around.

Most family sedan now has at least 16" tire and larger up to 19" as option.

Sure, 18-19" may look good but it doesn't look good at all when time for a new set.


I think my mother's pretty-basic Corolla uses 55-series 16's. I recall that all but the lowest-trim Focus uses 16's. I know some cars actually need 17"+ wheels to clear large brakes...but not a compact. 19" is just ridiculous.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
One surprising thing is that on some sedans like my VW Passat, the wheel sizes are actually reversing. For example, the B6 Passat (2006-2010) ran 215-55-16 or 235-45-17. The new B7 runs 215-60-16 or 215-55-17.

It is not reversing.
B6 model was same for Europe and US.
US Passat is downgraded now. It does not look nothing like European version (unfortunately).
VW decided to go after Camry, Accord etc. customers, so it put Passat on Skoda Superb platform, cheapened it, and decided to make ride less sporty, hence choice of tire size is according to those decisions.
In Europe new Passat is much sportier then B6.


Actually, the B7 Passat, NMS Passat and Skoda Superb are all on the B6 Passat PQ46 platform, which itself is derivative of the PQ35 platform

I know they are, except NA Pasat and Superb have 10cm longer wheel base. I had opportunity to drive a lot Superb in Europe, and it is much better composed then NA Passat, which means that NA Passat is deliberately softened for American market. Withe that go another things they kicked out and put in, and more comfortable tires among other things.
In EU new Passat comes with low profiles and 16 inch is not an option anymore as far as I know.

 

[Malo83]

Love the 19's that came on my wifes 2015 GMC Terrain DENALI, 235/55/19's ride smooth and quiet, much better ride than the 18's on my 08 Malibu LTZ.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Malo83
Love the 19's that came on my wifes 2015 GMC Terrain DENALI, 235/55/19's ride smooth and quiet

Yup. Same size we use on our q5 for summer. It's a good balance between comfort and handling. But this thread was about minivans.

 

[CT8]

MPGs.

 

[Malo83]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Malo83
Love the 19's that came on my wifes 2015 GMC Terrain DENALI, 235/55/19's ride smooth and quiet

Yup. Same size we use on our q5 for summer. It's a good balance between comfort and handling. But this thread was about minivans.

True! but an SUV is pretty close to a MV, don't you think

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Malo83
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Malo83
Love the 19's that came on my wifes 2015 GMC Terrain DENALI, 235/55/19's ride smooth and quiet

Yup. Same size we use on our q5 for summer. It's a good balance between comfort and handling. But this thread was about minivans.

True! but an SUV is pretty close to a MV, don't you think

Not really. I see a lot of people souping up / sportying up their SUVs, and that includes low profile tires. I don't really see that happening with the minivan crowd.

 

[surfstar]

Love that my 2016 sportwagen came with 15" alloys. Not steel and not 17".

Comfy ride, will out-handle any of these minivans or suvs and their 19" rims, and runs cheap sized 195 tires. This will easily save me hundreds in tire replacements costs over the lifetime of the vehicle. Less chance of wheel and tire damage also.