Why add an oil additive? A thought about...

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Hi Massimo.
So, you know what i think about.
Only additives that i use are diesel additives (really effective) and only additives that i use in the motor oil are additive for flush every 2 oil changes.

Regarding oil additives (antiwear), beh I wanted to try Ceratec or Mos2 by Liqui Moly but reading the VERY interesting and competent replies in this topic, I have decided not to use additives in my motor oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Ken2
-- A specific additive to solve a specific problem. Kreen to clean out sludge, for example. If the engine was designed right, or if the owner had used the right oil for the engine, the sludge wouldn't have been there, of course.


Yes i know that there are many additives for specific problem but in this topic I refer solely to antiwear additives that declares to improve engine life and protect it.

Thanks to all for the explanation. I conclude that is unnecessary using antiwear additives if i use an excellent oil like Mobil 1, Castrol, etc...
 
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Originally Posted By: Massimo_A
Why add an oil additive?

My doubt is following:
Now take an oil at random, for example, Mobil 1 0w40.
I expect that this oil is carefully formulated an balanced to run into ours engine. Ok...

Now, adding an oil additive like Ceratec, Zddp, etc... could it change the chemistry of the oil ?!
If the top oils like Castrol, Mobil, etc..., are perfectly balanced, there any reason to adding extra Boron or Mos2 (or another antiwear sobtance) into the oil?

An oil has determinate quantity of antiwear molecule, a quantity originating from years of study and works in lab....the alteration of this quantity (caused adding an oil additive) is a good thing?!

And if the response is : "yes is a good thing", why the main oil companies do not add extra quantity of these additives into their formulations?
If for example Mobil 1 contains X number of Mos2 molecules (it's an example) and i add an additives based on Mos2, i will increase the primary and original X number to Y (with Y>>X), so, at this point, if is a really a GREAT advantage, why Mobil 1 for example do not contains originally the Y number of Mos2 molecules?


Here we go again, we buy a car and do OCI's of maybe 3000 or 5000 miles, most people after about 100,000 miles might sell the car,what about the guy who keeps a car longer than 100K, deposits build up, he does not realize what is happening in his engine, he gets a noise, what should he do, what many members do not realize is if your engine gets dirty even with routine maintenance then you have to realize that the oil was the problem, if oil was so perfect then we would all have clean engines, and if oil really cleaned then we would not have an Oil Additive Section, from what I have read on this board I can honestly say that there are a few oil additives that clean engines to a certain consent and get members results if there are engines are not to far gone. JMO
 
I used to be interested in every new oil supplement that came along. I guess I did not trust the big oil companies all that much and I always wanted to believe there was some magic left in this world. I tried a few oil supplements over the years.

I still have some faith in Lubegard products. I was able to get some really good results from some Lubegard products. And without a doubt some older cars will probably benefit from a ZDDP additive because the ZDDP amounts have been reduced in newer oils. Auto-RX did stop a seal leak in a car I owned and I think Auto-RX would be the first product I would recommend to somebody who had a seal leak. And a lot of guys here have had good results with MMO.

But over the years I have developed less and less faith in oil supplements. Without a doubt many have been proven to be scams. And some of the people who develop some of these additives have much less ability than the people who work for oil companies.

A quality motor oil should be able to get the job done. Eventually, regardless of the quality of the maintenance, any engine will wear out and have to be rebuilt, remanufactured, or the car scrapped. That is just life. But I think the motor oils are developed to a price point also.

Before any oil supplement is considered I think a person should be sure to use a good quality motor oil. It would be silly to pour some expensive oil supplement into cheap, low quality motor oil.

And exactly what are you trying to accomplish with the oil supplement? Are you trying to clean an engine? Are you trying to reduce friction, improve fuel mileage, and reduce wear?

The list of supplements I am willing to use is a short list today, and could even get to zero.
 
Originally Posted By: Mystic
I used to be interested in every new oil supplement that came along.


You are not the 1st.

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I still have some faith in Lubegard products. I was able to get some really good results from some Lubegard products.


They are a great company.

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Auto-RX did stop a seal leak in a car I owned and I think Auto-RX would be the first product I would recommend to somebody who had a seal leak.


Glad arx worked for you, but if your seal is ripped, torn, or hard as a boulder then arx will not help you out.

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. And a lot of guys here have had good results with MMO.


More than any other OIL ADDITIVE. JMO

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But over the years I have developed less and less faith in oil supplements


Is this from your personal experience or from what you have read on this board.

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Without a doubt many have been proven to be scams


Can you please give us the names of these so called oil additives that are SCAMS.

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And some of the people who develop some of these additives have much less ability than the people who work for oil companies.


Who are these people.

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A quality motor oil should be able to get the job done


That depends on your driving conditions and other variables, if a quality motor oil were sufficient then we would not need oil additives.

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. Eventually, regardless of the quality of the maintenance, any engine will wear out and have to be rebuilt, remanufactured, or the car scrapped.


You make a good point, but there are people who will want to extend the life of there motors, some people have LOVE AFFAIRS with there cars.

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Before any oil supplement is considered I think a person should be sure to use a good quality motor oil.


A good quality oil can be used and you might still need to use an oil supplement.

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But I think the motor oils are developed to a price point also.


Anyone who has been on BITOG already knows that, but thanks for bringing that point up.

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And exactly what are you trying to accomplish with the oil supplement? Are you trying to clean an engine? Are you trying to reduce friction, improve fuel mileage, and reduce wear?


No flame war, but you have used auto-rx, are you going to come out and tell us your true feelings about the oil additives that you have used, if you do not want to, then that is fine, because from what I have read I can see what your true feelings are on auto-rx as well as other oil additives. JMO


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The list of supplements I am willing to use is a short list today, and could even get to zero.


Can we please have the list, there is nothing wrong with your opinion on certain oil additives.
 
Well PontiacFan, I learned of AutoRX here and I tried it. It seemed to stop a seal leak. At least, the seal leak completely stopped after I used Auto-RX. I became a fan of AutoRX for a long time. Whether or not it cleaned the engine I don't know.

If you check with the FTC you can find out about some of the makers of oil supplements that were fined by the FTC for false advertising. There are names there like STP, Slick50, and some others. The Slick50 that is sold today is different than the Slick50 of the past.

My list of supplements I am willing to use includes Lubegard products, MMO, Stal-Bil, Bars Leaks, Techron, Regain, BG44K, LubroMoly, and that is pretty much it unless I can't think of something right now I use rarely. If I owned an old car that needed it I would use a ZDDP supplement and I have considered adding a little bit of ZDDP to lawnmower engine oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Mystic
And exactly what are you trying to accomplish with the oil supplement? Are you trying to clean an engine? Are you trying to reduce friction, improve fuel mileage, and reduce wear?


I repeat: in this topic i refer to additives that reduce wear and friction and claims to extends engine life.

Additives that stop leak and clean engine are useful and i haven't doubt about them.
smile.gif
 
I would bet that some additives can reduce wear and/or friction, but also reduce the useful lifetime of the oil. Chlorinated paraffins come to mind. They can reduce friction, but also can degrade to form hydrochloric acid. As long as the TBN stays up, you are fine. However, you may consume that buffing capacity in fewer miles.
 
And that is exactly what some of these 'miracle' supplements are-Chlorinated parafins. The oil companies experimented with this stuff a long time ago-and abandoned this stuff. There were problems with corrosion and there was cancer risk to humans.

For trying to reduce friction and wear and improve fuel mileage I would stick to something like Lubegard engine treatment.
 
^So, does Lubro Moly's MoS2 have any dreaded 'Chlorinated paraffin'? Which additives do that claim to reduce friction/wear?

I personally would like to try LubeGard Engine Protectant(BioTech), but can't justify it just yet on top of Amsoil. MoS2 is an experiment currently.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
This topic gets beaten a lot here.It's all about what makes you feel better. Makes for great discussion/argument it just depends on which side of the bed you climbed out of. JMO


I like this! DP you did it again. Took words from my head.

With the plethora of products out there I'm sure even the most skeptical would have to admit that someone somewhere MAY get some benefit from an additive. But there's too many variables to list!

So you can never get a definitive answer
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
This topic gets beaten a lot here.It's all about what makes you feel better. Makes for great discussion/argument it just depends on which side of the bed you climbed out of. JMO


I like this! DP you did it again. Took words from my head.

With the plethora of products out there I'm sure even the most skeptical would have to admit that someone somewhere MAY get some benefit from an additive. But there's too many variables to list!

So you can never get a definitive answer


01.gif
LOL

Over the years I've tried my fair share of additives, some I benefited by, others were a total waste of money. Rather than name what was a total waste of money, and risk pizing anyone off I'll give my short list of what worked and a few words on why.

MMO-cleaned engines, freed lifters, [more times than I can count] and freed up a sticking fuel float. I've beaten this one to death.

MoS2- Stopped a mower from using oil. Seems to aid in cold starts, and I like the plating idea.

Bio Tech Engine Protectant- Polar in nature makes oil cling, good for cars that aren't used everyday, loaded with moly.

Schaeffers #132- Great for worn tired engines, and beefing up an oil. We use it in my brother's boat.

Kreen- tested by a friend and well respected mechanic "Trav" with fantastic results. I'm currently using it the gas in my E-150, too early for me to comment.

For those looking for scientific proof, don't look here. What I can tell you is I can see, hear, and know my way around an engine bay. Once again JMO
 
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
We can not assume that oils are perfect concoctions of additives. They are engineered with constraints on costs, EPA, etc..



Well said. I like to believe oils are good, and if money and profit margins didn't play into it they could be a lot better.
 
Well demarpaint you brought up one I had nearly forgotten-Scaeffers #132 did seem to make my engine run smoother. I do like Schaeffer's products.

And like you I tend to believe in stuff that actually seems to make a difference in how my car performs. Lubegard Power Steering Supplement immediately stopped a power steering unit from making noise in cold weather. I know that for a fact. I was there. I witnessed it. Combined with the fact that three automakers at one time approved use of Lubegard transmission supplements in their cars made me a believer in Lubegard products. And I really like their Lubegard Biotech Engine Oil Supplement. In is possible to buy this product or order it from NAPA.

I think there are some supplements that have value. But I also think that probably 90% of supplements are useless.
 
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
We can not assume that oils are perfect concoctions of additives. They are engineered with constraints on costs, EPA, etc..



sometimes there is this thing called product placement imho...

for ex if MX4T is so good, no one will want to buy said company's racing oils...
 
Originally Posted By: Mystic
Well demarpaint you brought up one I had nearly forgotten-Scaeffers #132 did seem to make my engine run smoother. I do like Schaeffer's products.

And like you I tend to believe in stuff that actually seems to make a difference in how my car performs. Lubegard Power Steering Supplement immediately stopped a power steering unit from making noise in cold weather. I know that for a fact. I was there. I witnessed it. Combined with the fact that three automakers at one time approved use of Lubegard transmission supplements in their cars made me a believer in Lubegard products. And I really like their Lubegard Biotech Engine Oil Supplement. In is possible to buy this product or order it from NAPA.

I think there are some supplements that have value. But I also think that probably 90% of supplements are useless.


I agree, notice the size of my list? I've tested some expensive, hyped, available only online, or by phone order products that did nothing. Talk about making a wallet lighter. Sometimes the cost of a product doesn't automatically make it good or bad. JMO
 
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And if the response is : "yes is a good thing", why the main oil companies do not add extra quantity of these additives into their formulations?
If for example Mobil 1 contains X number of Mos2 molecules (it's an example) and i add an additives based on Mos2, i will increase the primary and original X number to Y (with Y>>X), so, at this point, if is a really a GREAT advantage, why Mobil 1 for example do not contains originally the Y number of Mos2 molecules?


A good question.

Again I ask, 1) what chemical component do you think we formulators leave out in order to cause you to buy after-market additives,

and 2) what perceived problem(s) are you trying to fix?

Not trying to flame anyone but ask yourself these questions when you see those overpriced additives on the shelf with the high-priced packaging.

In answer to the original question, a certain amount of base oil with the proper amount of dispersant will only hold a certain amount of additive mix in suspension, I.E., you reach a point of no return in which the additives may not be soluble or properly mixed anymore. A dispersant is also the component that provides additive solubility.

If you upset the chemistry, the chemistry may not be polar enough anymore to cause attraction to the load bearing surfaces.

The formulators have tried various mixes of additives to find the optimum mix that provides the best anti-wear and cleanliness at an affordable price.

Yes, we could make superduper formulated oils with exotic base oils and loads of additives, but the guy on the street could not afford nor would be willing to buy.

My recommendation is to buy a good name-brand oil for the daily driver and a specialty racing oil for his competition vehicle.
 
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