Why A3 doesn't always matter.

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http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000434 This car was driven hard on the Autobahn at speeds of 140mph. One of the best UOA's on this board. [Smile] I'm also not saying that this one test shows that it's ok not to have a A3 rated oil, but unless your pushing high speeds of 120mph + constantly, it's pointless to have an A3 oil. I think M1 10w-30 held up well bc...well...it always does!! Just a rock solid oil. [ October 14, 2003, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
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Yeah, Buster, but just imagine how spectacular the results would have been if he had been running GC!!! (Just had to say that...been taking alot of abuse over my sweet green nectar lately. [Big Grin] ) ...went down to my oil cellar and one of my GC bottles even had a little tear running down the side...very sad...very sad [ October 14, 2003, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: pscholte ]
 

buster

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quote:
Yeah, Buster, but just imagine how spectacular the results would have been if he had been running GC!!! (Just had to say that...been taking alot of abuse over my sweet green nectar lately.
[Big Grin] Nah, GC is good stuff. It's the company I get annoyed with. Sweet green nectar... [LOL!] [Cheers!]
 

GSV

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pscholte, I'm only 188 bottles behind you now in GC hoarding. I cleaned out an Autozone today. Hopefully it will be "the stuff" for this winter as my truck sits outside at 7865 ft. overnight. (ie - it gets REAL cold) buster, I like M1 quite a bit but can you ever have too much protection? [Cheers!] [Patriot]
 
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GSV, I am CERTAIN your truck will be very, very happy with its diet of GC. I do hope you have a CD player, though, because with GC in the sump, sometimes your radio will only play stations featuring Oktoberfest music! [Cheers!]
 

Leo

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I agree. Most people take the A3 rating too seriously. The difference between A2 and A3 is the minimum HTHS and thats about it. And one of the cheapest oils you can buy here in Aus is Castrol GTX3 which is A2 rated.... The higher VW/BMW/Merc manf ratings are far harder on the oils than just the ACEA ratings.
 
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Yeah, and where are the reply's to all the questions regarding this person's UOA. Did he really send his oil analysis to Indiana from Belgium....or are all the numbers simply made-up?
 

buster

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5K miles on a good synthetic is nothing
True, but what makes this test different are the 130mph speeds and Turbo engine that is hard on the oil. I'd be afraid to see results of a dino under these conditions.
 
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Buster; How about a group II+ SAE 30 or 40 with a flashpoint of 250-260C at a $1.50/qt? Do you think an oil like that would break down in a turbo application. [I dont know] What part of going 140 MPH is hard on the oil? [Confused] Oh, and Pscholte, you can take off that Octoberfest muzak and put on the Czehc line-dancing. [ October 15, 2003, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: userfriendly ]
 
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The hard part about sustained high speeds is the increase in oil tempuratures. At 60mph a sedan takes about 15-20 horsepower to maintain the speed. The same care at 140mph will take about 150-200 horsepower. This is a 10 fold increase in power, and correspondingly an increase in heat. As I understand it, sustained running (greater than a few minutes) at these speeds will show oil tempuratures of 260F-300F. This is in comparision to normal temps of 200-220F. At these higher temps the oil (especially a mineral oil) will be much thinner and mineral oil will degrade faster. I believe this is why the europeon manufactures for years required 20w-50 for tempuratures above freezing. Now with more stable synthetics, they seem to be saying 30 and 40 weights are okay. Don't forget this type of driving is what caused "black death" in the 70's and early 80's with the older multi weight synthetics. Cary
 

buster

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A 5w-30 Fully synthetic oil such as Mobil 1 will protect better then a Dino 5w-40. PAO makes the oil stronger under extreme heat, well over 400F.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by userfriendly: Oh, and Pscholte, you can take off that Octoberfest muzak and put on the Czehc line-dancing.
I have just GOT to help you with your geography...Hamburg is in GERMANY not the Czech Republic! [Big Grin] [Cheers!]
 
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What I have learnt'; from cary; high speeds cause oil temperatures to rise to 260-300F buster; 5W30 synthetic will handle 400F better than 5W40 mineral. From the net; German STP is made in Gadanski Poland
 

buster

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Look at M1 SS. The oils NEVER shear down out of grade and have been consistantly among the most shear stable. They don't have a HT/HS of 3.5> but it hasn't shown to matter. The M1 A3 rated 0w-40 shears down like a champ. Go figure....
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Cary: At 60mph a sedan takes about 15-20 horsepower to maintain the speed. The same care at 140mph will take about 150-200 horsepower. This is a 10 fold increase in power, and correspondingly an increase in heat.
BINGO! Doubling the speed always requires 8 times the power. It's great to visit a site where people actually get it right. [Cheers!]
 
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