Why 10w30?

[2EHA]

american 10w30s are usually VII ridden 5w30 rejects. they are still subject to all the problems of GF6 and can often be high noack. low ccs is a red flag

something like PP 10w30 using considerable amounts of GTL and a heavier group 2 base will give good performance

 

[DGXR]

In addition to all the previous comments, I was able to address a cold lifter tick by switching from 5w30 to 10w30. Ambient temps are never below 30F, so 10w is fine here.

 

[Accent Abuser]

Less VI needed so has better resistance to viscosity changes.

This and possibly better base oil viscosity.

 

[wemay]

No, not being a popular grade, it wasn't shown in the example formulations. They had two 5w-30's, a 10w-30 HDEO and 10w-40 HDEO.

However, they do provide this:
View attachment 68549

That shows you can blend a 10w-xx PCMO with just straight EHC 50.

EHC has shown good performance. I have no issues using a 10w30 pure EHC motor oil if the performance falls in line with the other grades as shown in the image on page one. I think it's great news that ExxonMobil, Chevron and possibly others have been working with GrpII and extracted performance on par with GrpIII.

 

[SR5]

EHC has shown good performance. ....

@wemay @OVERKILL

Sorry, what exactly is EHC ?

Thanks

 

[wemay]

@wemay @OVERKILL

Sorry, what exactly is EHC ?

Thanks

PdsDetailsPage

EHC base stocks by ExxonMobil are designed for performance capability in a broad range of finished lubricant applications. With base oil interchange and viscosity grade read-across capabilities, ExxonMobil's EHC base stock slate offers broad coverage, enabling supply chain flexibility and...

www.exxonmobil.com

Infineum Insight - The rise of Group II

Ted Walko, Global Basestocks and Specialties Marketing Manager at ExxonMobil, talks to Infineum Insight about global trends in the base stock market and the drivers behind the company’s investment in additional Group II capacity.

www.infineuminsight.com

 

[SR5]

PdsDetailsPage

EHC base stocks by ExxonMobil are designed for performance capability in a broad range of finished lubricant applications. With base oil interchange and viscosity grade read-across capabilities, ExxonMobil's EHC base stock slate offers broad coverage, enabling supply chain flexibility and...

www.exxonmobil.com

Infineum Insight - The rise of Group II

Ted Walko, Global Basestocks and Specialties Marketing Manager at ExxonMobil, talks to Infineum Insight about global trends in the base stock market and the drivers behind the company’s investment in additional Group II capacity.

www.infineuminsight.com

Thanks!


”Our high performing EHC Group II base stocks........”

 

[SR5]

Wemay and I were just discussing ol' Merk a little while go. Him and Garak.

I fondly recall both Merk and Garak, great guys.

 

[OVERKILL]

Thanks!


”Our high performing EHC Group II base stocks........”

Yeah, high VI Group II, dubbed "Group II+". XOM's provides them in several grades:
EHC 45: ~4.6cSt
EHC 50: ~5.5cSt
EHC 65: ~6.5cSt
EHC 110: ~11cSt
EHC 120: ~12cSt

Big advantage here is that they are available in much heavier grades than the Shell GTL bases, but then the same goes for Mobil's extensive PAO and POE portfolio.

 

[Dennywires]

It’s a go to oil for many.. where cold temps isn’t an issue 10w30 works just fine in place of 5w30. Lots of outdoor power equipment Still call for a 10w30 lawnmowers pressure washers tillers generators.

 

[SR5]

Yeah, high VI Group II, dubbed "Group II+". XOM's provides them in several grades:
EHC 45: ~4.6cSt
EHC 50: ~5.5cSt
EHC 65: ~6.5cSt
EHC 110: ~11cSt
EHC 120: ~12cSt

Big advantage here is that they are available in much heavier grades than the Shell GTL bases, but then the same goes for Mobil's extensive PAO and POE portfolio.

Yes I recall Joe saying Group III came mostly as 4 to 6 cSt, which limited their ability to make thicker grades. Those thicker Group II+ oils above would be great for making a 10W30, sure PAO & Group V would be better but very difficult to find and expensive when you do.

 

[SR5]

The oil formulator SonofSonof (Joe) recently posted this:

Group I & II base oils come in light, heavy & very heavy varieties & are primarily good for 15W40s & 20W50s. You can make 5W30s, 10W30s & 10W40s with them but only if you're prepared to accept very high Noack.

Group IIIs (& I believe GTL) only come in light varieties (typically 4 to 6 cst). You can make narrow 0W-xx grades & wider 5W-xx grades with them which importantly have lower Noack. You definitely CAN'T make 15W40s & 20W50s from them. Given that the bulk of commercial synthetic oils are Group III based, going synthetic inevitably means a shift to thinner oils.

PAOs come in light, heavy & ultra heavy varieties. The most common varieties are 4 & 6 cst & these find most favour in 0W-xx top-tier oils where they have a small but significant advantage over Group IIIs. However you could conceptually make a full PAO 20W50 from PAO 10 & PAO 40. It would probably be a VII-free mono grade with a zero Noack!! It's commercially reality that rules out such oils rather than any technical reason.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I service friend's 200K + mile Toyotas and Hondas that go through a little oil.
And we don't have too many cold days around here. 10w30 or even 10w40 may have benefits in these conditions.

 

[SR5]

My two favourite 10W30’s are Castrol Magnatec semi-synthetic that is rated A3/B4 and Castrol Edge full synthetic that is rated A5/B5. I believe the Edge 10W30 synthetic has a HTHS of 3.2cP and a Noack of about 8%.

 

[OVERKILL]

The oil formulator SonofSonof (Joe) recently posted this:

Group I & II base oils come in light, heavy & very heavy varieties & are primarily good for 15W40s & 20W50s. You can make 5W30s, 10W30s & 10W40s with them but only if you're prepared to accept very high Noack.

Group IIIs (& I believe GTL) only come in light varieties (typically 4 to 6 cst). You can make narrow 0W-xx grades & wider 5W-xx grades with them which importantly have lower Noack. You definitely CAN'T make 15W40s & 20W50s from them. Given that the bulk of commercial synthetic oils are Group III based, going synthetic inevitably means a shift to thinner oils.

PAOs come in light, heavy & ultra heavy varieties. The most common varieties are 4 & 6 cst & these find most favour in 0W-xx top-tier oils where they have a small but significant advantage over Group IIIs. However you could conceptually make a full PAO 20W50 from PAO 10 & PAO 40. It would probably be a VII-free mono grade with a zero Noack!! It's commercially reality that rules out such oils rather than any technical reason.

Yep, aligns with my understanding as well. I believe there's also a 2cSt GTL base? Perhaps a 3 as well. These Group II+ bases are, as the tables presented show, an excellent compliment to the thinner bases to blend many of the grades you mentioned that may be difficult or impossible to blend with straight Group III.

 

[vwalburn]

I would say it has to do with keeping older vehicles on the road as well. 10W-30 was the recommended oil viscosity for my '64 GTO, though I run 10W-40 in it; which can be another discussion entirely.

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

It is pretty much for older vehicles. The last modern car I know that recommended 10W-30 was the Chrysler HO motor ones about ten years ago...

 

[kschachn]

It is pretty much for older vehicles. The last modern car I know that recommended 10W-30 was the Chrysler HO motor ones about ten years ago...

What does the winter rating have to do with the age of the vehicle?

 

[Jackson_Slugger]

What does the winter rating have to do with the age of the vehicle?

Um, what?

 

[JavierH19]

What does the winter rating have to do with the age of the vehicle?

its not that 10w-30 was designed for vehicles but that 10w-30 was a common recommendation back then since most people used an oil that was group 1 and 2 based.

A 10w-30 would provide better overall performance and they also had graphs that would say to use a 5w-30 once it hit like -10f or less but to use a 10w beyond that since oils were bad enough then that a 10w really did give better shear resistance,

Nowadays a 5w-30 gives better shear resistance and protection as it needs better base stocks while a 10w doesn't so x blender cheaps out the base stock but charges the same. i wouldn't mind paying less for a 10w though. if not id rather pay the same money and get a better base stock.

It's only with pennozil platinum that i cant be certain. if both their 5w and 10w oils are 100% gtl then that would mean the 10w is better but all others who mix group 2/3/gtl/ehc leave room for debate.