Why 10K Miles Oil change may not be good!

[doublebase]

I don’t think you realize what kind of life heavy duty equipment lives. My FIL is an owner operator and these semi truck certainly don’t “hum along” when they are pulling 50-60,000lb loads up/down mountains and across America. They are stuck in traffic all the time and often make deliveries in the middle of big cities like New York or Chicago.

Have you ever been in one? Have you seen it make full boost at those 1200rpm up a steep grade or use the Jake brake down a hill that essentially makes every stroke a compression stroke and it pounds everything violently?

Like I said earlier, not even in the same galaxy.

Well, I was agreeing with you...that you can't compare the two. But I thought we were more specifically talking about oil change length...and why a semi truck can go longer on an interval than a passenger car. That's why I mentioned the low highway rpm's - which is talked about frequently in terms of engine stress - but you have a good point...the hills, the traffic, the payload they are hauling. So, what are you saying? That the oil change interval in a semi should be much shorter?

 

[KrisZ]

Well, I was agreeing with you...that you can't compare the two. But I thought we were more specifically talking about oil change length...and why a semi truck can go longer on an interval than a passenger car. That's why I mentioned the low highway rpm's - which is talked about frequently in terms of engine stress - but you have a good point...the hills, the traffic, the payload they are hauling. So, what are you saying? That the oil change interval in a semi should be much shorter?

I guess your statement that they “hum along” threw me off as I thought it implied easy life. Sorry for misunderstanding. These semi engines are way overbuilt to take the abuse.

No, I’m not saying semi OCI should be shorter, just trying to point out that using semis as an example for bigger oil capacity and longer OCIs doesn’t directly compare to light duty vehicles. Because as Astro14 pointed out, there are too many variables and use cases out there to make such blanket statements.

Heavy duty vehicles have a much less variance as far as duty cycle goes, because they are purchased for a specific purpose, not personal use.

 

[jonlandrum]

MMO, Lucas, Slick50...etc.

I used to be an OTR truck driver, and you would be amazed at the number of professional drivers who dump that **** by the gallon into their rigs.

 

[jonlandrum]

I guess your statement that they “hum along” threw me off as I thought it implied easy life. Sorry for misunderstanding. These semi engines are way overbuilt to take the abuse.

No, I’m not saying semi OCI should be shorter, just trying to point out that using semis as an example for bigger oil capacity and longer OCIs doesn’t directly compare to light duty vehicles. Because as Astro14 pointed out, there are too many variables and use cases out there to make such blanket statements.

Heavy duty vehicles have a much less variance as far as duty cycle goes, because they are purchased for a specific purpose, not personal use.

The OCI on my rig when I was a driver was one month. At 100-150k miles a year, that worked out to roughly 10k miles or so on the oil change. But then again, I had an antique Peterbilt that I was trying to pamper and let live for a bit longer.

 

[KrisZ]

I used to be an OTR truck driver, and you would be amazed at the number of professional drivers who dump that **** by the gallon into their rigs.

Count my FIL into this category. He swears by it.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

I used to be an OTR truck driver, and you would be amazed at the number of professional drivers who dump that **** by the gallon into their rigs.

Maybe they need some ring cleaning…

 

[xspeedy]

These videos are comical. For some lemon engines, an OCI every 1K won’t stop th‘em failing. Oil isn’t going to fix bad engineering.

 

[Nesterenko]

My view of why a 10k mile oil change interval is not a good plan is actually not even related to the oil. My main reason to avoid 10k and higher OCI's is simply because #1 most modern engines burn oil so by the time you get to 10k you could be 1qt or more low. I say this because most of the population never checks their oil and I see regular customers coming in 2-3qts low especially on GM ecotecs and 3.6L motors. If you check your oil and keep it up then yes 10k is doable. #2 I feel that extending OCI too far out doesn't allow you to catch other problems before they happen. I go over my cars at every oil change and have caught more than a few issues that had they not been caught earlier would really have been bad news later. So, summary - yes oils can go 10K miles easy but the person driving the car might never check the oil and end up damaging the car anyhow as well as something going on that won't be detected until it's too late. My personal OCI's are between 5-7k miles using full syn.

If they're not going to check their oil level over an OCI then maybe a long drain oil may be helpful. Usually long drain oil is better quality and therefore able to resist consumption a little better. If I'm going to neglect my engine, I'd rather have something like HPL, Amsoil etc. in there. And yes, 10k is very doable. Engine oils have come a long way baby. Cheap insurance, say what? I know, short tripping, GDI will obviously affect the interval, but in general I would say 12-15k is quite alright IMO.

 

[ron17571]

I think if you do all freeway driving you can stretch the miles out on many vehicles. Otherwise, oil changes are cheap to me.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

I think if you do all freeway driving you can stretch the miles out on many vehicles. Otherwise, oil changes are cheap to me.

There even cheaper if you do them yourself!

 

[53' Stude]

10K miles for OCI, who does that!??

early OCI is a lowest cost of insurance for durability and longevity of your engine

the same goes for your food, everyones likes fresh ingredients or food at the dining table so the same goes for car fluids

again, change your oil early

Nah, screw wasting fluids. Some engines like the Duratech in my Focus could do 10k oci. Just ask Tog1


I’m using M1 5w20 and MC FL-910S for 10k

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Nah, screw wasting fluids. Some engines like the Duratech in my Focus could do 10k oci. Just ask Tog1


I’m using M1 5w20 and MC FL-910S for 10k

So Adam is that Focus your daily driver now. My grandson has a 2010 Focus and it seems to be serving him well. He's running 5W-20 also. But he isn't into those warm weather OIC's just quite yet. Give him a few years the youngster will figure it out.

 

[javacontour]

There’s DIY Dave on YouTube with a 1ZZ-FE I think it is a 2000 or 2001 Corolla…

… just yesterday, I offered to get him a quart of HPL EC.

I don’t think DIY Dave knows about here…

He has been piston soaking his engine for months……………

I revisited his channel a few days ago. Something to watch while prepping for an install.
Anyway, I was thinking he's probably still seeing oil consumption, but it holds off a bit until the oil breaks down due to fuel dilution. I.E. he's getting an initial good result for say the first tank of fuel. I don't think he sees any movement on the dipstick for the first 300-400 miles (IIRC) and then he'll see it drop 1/2 the distance between full and add the next 300 or so, and by 900-1000 it's at the add mark. Now that could be fuel dilution is at the same rate as initial consumption for a short period until the oil is more broken down by even more fuel dilution as time goes on.

Just theories, so no way to know without an oil analysis at each dipstick check.

I don't think anything is really going to fix it other than removing the pistons and and hands on cleaning and/or replacement oil control rings.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

I revisited his channel a few days ago. Something to watch while prepping for an install.
Anyway, I was thinking he's probably still seeing oil consumption, but it holds off a bit until the oil breaks down due to fuel dilution. I.E. he's getting an initial good result for say the first tank of fuel. I don't think he sees any movement on the dipstick for the first 300-400 miles (IIRC) and then he'll see it drop 1/2 the distance between full and add the next 300 or so, and by 900-1000 it's at the add mark. Now that could be fuel dilution is at the same rate as initial consumption for a short period until the oil is more broken down by even more fuel dilution as time goes on.

Just theories, so no way to know without an oil analysis at each dipstick check.

I don't think anything is really going to fix it other than removing the pistons and and hands on cleaning and/or replacement oil control rings.

Hehehe. I tried to tell him that too, aside from taking the pistons out and having to use a drill on the oil return holes (EricTheCarGuy has a GREAT video showing the oil return holes in the pistons of a Honda Civic. Those) and just really making them brand new and better and putting them back in.. DIY Dave obviously works a job and he is probably as hit-and-run with YouTube as I am.. I did offer to buy him a quart of the HPL EC product. He is trying desperately to clean his rings (Berrymans piston soaks for months if I've seen) and then like you said.. the pattern is it gets better a little bit, then gets worse.

I am curious to see if HPL EC would do anything on his 1ZZ-FE and like you said, he hasn't thought of fuel. The other thing could be PCV.

If its rings or compression related, HPL EC should really help it. If PCV or fuel then not so sure.. still though.. we had a thread somewhere where OP got flamed pretty darn bad, he basically made the assertion that he used a high eater oil (I believe he said he used Redline) and that fuel dilution "stopped." Now.... at first, that doesnt seem logical.. though I do remember positing (speculating, let's be grown ups here mmm-kay) that perhaps the (Redline?) "High ester content oil" maybe made things so that it was either 1. "Absorbing" the fuel so that it was somehow burned off in normal combustion... (??? Cleaned rings, higher compression???) - 2. Doing just that, cleaning stuff so that it operated to where it could keep it in check. I dont remember specifics, but OP was basically laughed out of the room. I talked to some premium oil formulators on here about it and we reached the conclusion of "I guess that's possible" - although far more likely the fuel dilution would be a separate issue...

I wonder if he will either try or take me up on the HPL EC (that is @High Performance Lubricants Engine Cleaner, I got to tour factory twice picking it up. High Performance Lubricants is a spectacularly good company. Spectacular.)

 

[53' Stude]

So Adam is that Focus your daily driver now. My grandson has a 2010 Focus and it seems to be serving him well. He's running 5W-20 also. But he isn't into those warm weather OIC's just quite yet. Give him a few years the youngster will figure it out.

Yup, it’s my daily driver as Toyota is gone.

 

[Astro14]

Hehehe. I tried to tell him that too, aside from taking the pistons out and having to use a drill on the oil return holes (EricTheCarGuy has a GREAT video showing the oil return holes in the pistons of a Honda Civic. Those) and just really making them brand new and better and putting them back in.. DIY Dave obviously works a job and he is probably as hit-and-run with YouTube as I am.. I did offer to buy him a quart of the HPL EC product. He is trying desperately to clean his rings (Berrymans piston soaks for months if I've seen) and then like you said.. the pattern is it gets better a little bit, then gets worse.

I am curious to see if HPL EC would do anything on his 1ZZ-FE and like you said, he hasn't thought of fuel. The other thing could be PCV.

If its rings or compression related, HPL EC should really help it. If PCV or fuel then not so sure.. still though.. we had a thread somewhere where OP got flamed pretty darn bad, he basically made the assertion that he used a high eater oil (I believe he said he used Redline) and that fuel dilution "stopped." Now.... at first, that doesnt seem logical.. though I do remember positing (speculating, let's be grown ups here mmm-kay) that perhaps the (Redline?) "High ester content oil" maybe made things so that it was either 1. "Absorbing" the fuel so that it was somehow burned off in normal combustion... (??? Cleaned rings, higher compression???) - 2. Doing just that, cleaning stuff so that it operated to where it could keep it in check. I dont remember specifics, but OP was basically laughed out of the room. I talked to some premium oil formulators on here about it and we reached the conclusion of "I guess that's possible" - although far more likely the fuel dilution would be a separate issue...

I wonder if he will either try or take me up on the HPL EC (that is @High Performance Lubricants Engine Cleaner, I got to tour factory twice picking it up. High Performance Lubricants is a spectacularly good company. Spectacular.)

Let’s be clear - as much as I love HPL, there is nothing that can be done for an oil burner with worn parts.

If the engine is using oil because the rings are sticking, then HPL can help.

If the engine is using oil because of worn rings, worn valve guides, worn cylinders, etc. then cleaning will make no difference.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Check out my UOA's for my Focus and Scion XD. Port injected engines used mainly for commuting can EASILY go 15K miles between oil changes. My wife's 09 CX-9 just got tore down to replace the water pump. Tech was stunned when I told him 175K miles of 7500-10K mile intervals. Tech said the engine looked new. No varnish or sludge. My wife does more stop and go driving and the 3.7 seems to be "hard" on oil.

My Focus was fine going 10K miles. Never pulled a UOA but it didn't matter because it was a typical NY car. Ended up rusted out before it was worn out.

 

[jonlandrum]

Nah, screw wasting fluids. Some engines like the Duratech in my Focus could do 10k oci. Just ask Tog1


I’m using M1 5w20 and MC FL-910S for 10k

But changing oil doesn't waste fluids; it has to be recycled and reused. At least in the US, anyway.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

Let’s be clear - as much as I love HPL, there is nothing that can be done for an oil burner with worn parts.

If the engine is using oil because the rings are sticking, then HPL can help.

If the engine is using oil because of worn rings, worn valve guides, worn cylinders, etc. then cleaning will make no difference.

I am not disagreeing with you. I hope it is the rings for him!

He has a notorious oil burner, Toyota 1ZZ-FE….

 

[camrydriver111]

Toyota made improvements during the production run. Only the early 1ZZ-FE burn oil.