Who makes the best cars?Subaru replaces Honda

[Spazdog]

Subaru has improved.

You used to sit down in a (then) new Impreza and wonder if it really was a new Impreza or a 10 year old Prizm from the interior styling.

Then they grafted the B9 Tribeca ox collar grill onto the Impreza

I'm just now getting to the point where I can see one and not shudder.

The Evo might have steering that is 1/2 of 1% more precise...whatever. The chassis dynamics are pretty darn good.

Now, if they would just address the manual shifter. Subarus have the ropiest shifters. They've gotten WAY better with thier synchros (anybody whose ever driven a manual trans Justy can attest to that) but the shifter is still sloppy. I honestly expect to crawl under the car and find the shifter connected to the transmission by sections of sisal rope.

Everytime I drive a Subaru with a manual I find myself thinking, "This shifter does not befit a car like this! Did they get this [darn] thing out of a '96 Kia Sephia?!"

I used to feel that way about Volkswagen shifters. "That's not first, that's third. Third again. Nope pushed down a little and now I'm in reverse. [deleted] it! I'll start in second." MkIV and beyond have been better though.

As far as Consumer Reports? Take what they print with a grain of salt. Hatchet jobs are not beneath them. Doing it to their "golden child" Honda is less likely though.

 

[morris]

there is NO such thing as BEST

 

[ls1mike]

Consumer reports is what it is.

The only thing wierd about them to me is that you can look at the ratings of a car one model year apart with everything the same and one year was good and one year was bad. Not sure how that happens. They don't recommend the 00-01 Malibu but don't mention the other years that had the same problem. Seems pretty unscientific to me. It is like that for a lot of cars on the 2012 buyers guide.

Bottom line to me is this "Everyone has opinion just like an a.hole and they all stink."

 

[91344George]

I'm surprised that you folks aren't taking into consideration what CR is using as a yardstick.

The typical reader of CR tends to be very well educated, does quite a bit of research before buying ANYTHING at all, and while these buyes don't look for products that are exceptional in any one area instead tend to like products that do very well in ALL areas, so a well rounded product. Suraru certainly seems to fit that bill on that.

I never realized just how well Subaru products handled until I drove a few of them, they are comfortable, but very decent handling cars, more so than Hondas of the past few years or so. Take a look at the Legacy and Outback interiors, very tastefully done, and not overkill with technology (which contrary to what the marketing people like to say the majority of buyers don't care that much) Build quality is very very good, although I would definitely say that Subaru has been a sleeper brand for decades now, and they are just being recognized for what they are, I hope it doesn't destroy what they have done up till now.

BTW Subaru is a division of Fuji Heavy Industries. Think of a similar relationship between Mitsubishi cars and Mitsubishi industries both produce a lot of diverse products.

 

[Marco Esquandoles]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Subaru has improved.

You used to sit down in a (then) new Impreza and wonder if it really was a new Impreza or a 10 year old Prizm from the interior styling.

Then they grafted the B9 Tribeca ox collar grill onto the Impreza

I'm just now getting to the point where I can see one and not shudder.

The Evo might have steering that is 1/2 of 1% more precise...whatever. The chassis dynamics are pretty darn good.

Now, if they would just address the manual shifter. Subarus have the ropiest shifters. They've gotten WAY better with thier synchros (anybody whose ever driven a manual trans Justy can attest to that) but the shifter is still sloppy. I honestly expect to crawl under the car and find the shifter connected to the transmission by sections of sisal rope.

Everytime I drive a Subaru with a manual I find myself thinking, "This shifter does not befit a car like this! Did they get this [darn] thing out of a '96 Kia Sephia?!"

I used to feel that way about Volkswagen shifters. "That's not first, that's third. Third again. Nope pushed down a little and now I'm in reverse. [deleted] it! I'll start in second." MkIV and beyond have been better though.

As far as Consumer Reports? Take what they print with a grain of salt. Hatchet jobs are not beneath them. Doing it to their "golden child" Honda is less likely though.


I think the Subaru "Oxe Collar" grill (Similar to Alfa Romeo if you ask me) looked fine on the WRXs, but not the B9 Tribeca, but that was due to the headlights more than anything.

 

[CharBaby]

I strongly believe that all vehicles are quite good today as compared to years ago and getting better all the time.

For ~20+ yrs, I was staying strictly with Honda/Toyota as they did treat me well compared to the domestic vehicles in terms of reliability. And, it wasn't so much about what I really liked in the HonYota's but, it was about what I didn't like in the other offerings.

Today, I'd buy a domestic vehicle in a minute, or any other MFG compared to just Honda & Toyota(yes, I think they both build nice vehicles). But, I want to experience the goodness of the other MFG's offerings in terms of driving enjoyment, comfort/quietness, style as well as reliability!

For years, we as a family wouldn't buy a Subaru(not for lack of being a reliable car) but, due to their having cramped interiors and slow engines with so-so MPG. We did better IMHO, with other makes! I read good things from CR on Subaru's but, different things/issues from customer reviews.

Use CR MAG as a guideline information source but, not your only source of information. They're[CR] good but, not the only game in town.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: spock1
Who makes the best cars?Subaru replaces Honda as the top automaker according to Consumer Reports.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/consumer-reports-magazine/April-2012/who-makes-the-best-cars.html


Salmon or trout?
Riesling or Gewurztraminer?
Subaru or Honda?
Since we have a couple of each, albeit all but one are now fairly old, I'll comment.
These are entirely different cars with entirely different characters.
The Hondas are biased more toward sportiness and fuel economy, while the Subarus offer AWD and a unique engine configuration, along with higher fuel consumption.
Either car will be durable and reliable, and either car will hold up well with typical maintenance.
I like both brands, and both have their strengths as well as their weaknesses.
If you like the look of the current Accord (I don't), it would no doubt be a very good machine over the years and miles.
If the current Forester appeals to you, and you can live with higher fuel consumption, you'd no doubt find it an agreeable companion over many years and miles.
You'd also be able to laugh at stuck Accord drivers on those rare winter days when AWD and higher ground clearance really do pay off.
I doubt that one make is better than the other in any objective way.
They're different machines for different audiences, and be grateful that Subaru at least offers a flat four in an ocean of inline ones.

 

[ARB1977]

Its hard to say. There's always that one rotten apple. So far our current rides have been trouble free. The CRV was bought used last year. The taco has been awesome, that was bought new.

 

[BrianWC]

CR has always had a thing for Subaru.

 

[zzyzzx]

Don't both Honda and Subaru both still make cars that use timing belts AND are an interference engine? I'd say that's pretty bad if they do.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Don't both Honda and Subaru both still make cars that use timing belts AND are an interference engine? I'd say that's pretty bad if they do.


I don't know about Subaru. All of Honda's 4-cylinders are timing chain engines, including the L-series, R-series, and K-series engines. Their lone V-6, the J-series, still has a timing belt.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Don't both Honda and Subaru both still make cars that use timing belts AND are an interference engine? I'd say that's pretty bad if they do.


It is not a big deal on a Subaru to change a timing belt as access is much easier from the front of engine instead of side.

That being all said the recent Forester and Impreza have timing chains due to updated motor. The Legacy and Outback slated for 2013 model. All H6 engines have had it.

The awesome Subaru BRZ(RWD coupe with precise handling) uses a timing chain also. I wish it were out when I bought my 04 WRX as I would have jumped on that in a heartbeat.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Legacy is a Domestic Isuzubaru.


Not sure what you mean by that.

There's nothing Isuzu about my 2012 Legacy other than being built at the Subaru of Indiana plant that built Isuzu Rodeos by contract years ago.

Joel

 

[Quest]

Best as in what?!

"Best" is such a subjective term that no 2 persons can agree on the same subject.

So, I'd say this is inclusive.

Q.

 

[Zako2]

If Subarus are now judged to be more reliable and more versatile cars than they used to be, then this is probably due to Toyota's takeover of a significant ownership share of Subaru. However, in this process of Toyotification of Subaru, some traditional attributes of Subaru are being lost. The Legacy wagon has been discontinued. The Outback is no longer a Legacy wagon that was raised a few inches. It really is a more bloated CUV/SUV. The Forester also went through this transformation from being a wagon into a SUV/CUV. I think this will scare away the transitional buyers of Subarus. A lot of Subaru buyers were urban dwellers who wanted a car or wagon that could go out to ski country and other outdoor adventures on weekends, but when the vehicle is in the city, they wanted it to handle like a car. Subaru no longer offers such a product.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27

The Hondas are biased more toward sportiness and fuel economy, while the Subarus offer AWD and a unique engine configuration, along with higher fuel consumption.


Sort of in MPG. Forester has an antique cruddy 4 speed automatic hampering MPG. However the current(2012) Impreza and Legacy are quite close to Civic/Accord while having AWD.

In terms of sportiness nothing Honda offers touches a candle to BRZ, although that honestly is in a class of its own.

 

[Norm Olt]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Don't both Honda and Subaru both still make cars that use timing belts AND are an interference engine? I'd say that's pretty bad if they do.


It is not a big deal on a Subaru to change a timing belt as access is much easier from the front of engine instead of side.

That being all said the recent Forester and Impreza have timing chains due to updated motor. The Legacy and Outback slated for 2013 model. All H6 engines have had it.

The awesome Subaru BRZ(RWD coupe with precise handling) uses a timing chain also. I wish it were out when I bought my 04 WRX as I would have jumped on that in a heartbeat.


Well, the 3.3L DOHC engine in my SVX has belts and I'm almost positive the H6 (I believe it was the ER Series 2.7L) in the previous generation was timing belt, also...

Cheers!

 

[JTK]

I think the Subaru/timing belt thing sounds scarier than it actually is. It's more of a marketing tool these days than anything IMO. Obviously Subaru know this, thus the new complicated chain equipped FB series.

You don't hear of T-belt related issues with Subarus. I've seen EJ series 2.2 and 2.5's with 250Kmi+ on them with one T-belt change at best. Head gaskets, oil leaks and rust.. now that's another issue.

Joel

 

[SLCraig]

Originally Posted By: Zako2
If Subarus are now judged to be more reliable and more versatile cars than they used to be, then this is probably due to Toyota's takeover of a significant ownership share of Subaru. However, in this process of Toyotification of Subaru, some traditional attributes of Subaru are being lost. The Legacy wagon has been discontinued. The Outback is no longer a Legacy wagon that was raised a few inches. It really is a more bloated CUV/SUV. The Forester also went through this transformation from being a wagon into a SUV/CUV. I think this will scare away the transitional buyers of Subarus. A lot of Subaru buyers were urban dwellers who wanted a car or wagon that could go out to ski country and other outdoor adventures on weekends, but when the vehicle is in the city, they wanted it to handle like a car. Subaru no longer offers such a product.


Frustrating if you ask me.
Subaru is completely off my radar for anything even remotely good looking/practical.
The 05-08 Legacy GT wagon was one of the nicest most practical cars money could buy at the time, and with it being gone. The brand is pretty much dead to me. The WRX/STi have never looked good. (In North America) but the old WRX from the late 90's was a great car, too bad it never came here.

Some pics of the only things I ever liked from Subaru:

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: SLCraig

The 05-08 Legacy GT wagon was one of the nicest most practical cars money could buy at the time, and with it being gone. .....


I feel very lucky my wife(8 months pregnant) purchased this very car brand new for $24k with 5 speed manual(critical for her) as her mommy mobile. The car has been pure bliss and Honda like reliability thus far with 132,000 miles.

You just can't buy a practical, simple and fun to drive car like the Legacy GT wagon anymore. Even the interior took a nosedive beyond sheet metal in the next generation.