Who makes the best cars?Subaru replaces Honda
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You can use CR as a tool for selecting a car, but you need to do other research along with it. I usually ask friends with the cars or independant mechanics.
Originally Posted By: citationxeleven
You can use CR as a tool for selecting a car, but you need to do other research along with it. I usually ask friends with the cars or independant mechanics.
Words of wisdom!
You can use CR as a tool for selecting a car, but you need to do other research along with it. I usually ask friends with the cars or independant mechanics.
Words of wisdom!
My 2005 Subaru Legacy GT Experience was poor reliability, CV joints x 2, injector, headlights x6, clutch&TOB at 75k, door locks and AC.
Poor MPG, high frequency OCI required (3750miles on synthetic to prevent blown turbos, I was a lucky one and never had an issue), poor stock brakes and tires.
Suspension, was okay but not great. Shifter feel was absolutely terrible. Engine was nice and powerful.
Fit and finish was okay, except the parts that fell off the car...
Depreciated like a rock. Cost more than a WRX and was worth less than a WRX 2 years later.
I regretted buying that car after about 2 years, but due to depreciation curve and little equity I was stuck in it for a long time.
Maybe they are better now? I don't know, but I wouldn't buy one again.
Poor MPG, high frequency OCI required (3750miles on synthetic to prevent blown turbos, I was a lucky one and never had an issue), poor stock brakes and tires.
Suspension, was okay but not great. Shifter feel was absolutely terrible. Engine was nice and powerful.
Fit and finish was okay, except the parts that fell off the car...
Depreciated like a rock. Cost more than a WRX and was worth less than a WRX 2 years later.
I regretted buying that car after about 2 years, but due to depreciation curve and little equity I was stuck in it for a long time.
Maybe they are better now? I don't know, but I wouldn't buy one again.
Legacy is a Domestic Isuzubaru. Our Japanese Forester has the most capacity for its superb 28-31mpg average real world MPG with a stick. I had my wife look at a the intersesting Mitsu Outlander sport, but they didnt have a stick on the lot. Rogue, is non competitiv due to poor packaging efficiency, the Honda too pricy and fuel inefficient for a Edsel-ugly jacked up civic with a Yardman lawnmower rear drivetrain. Previous gen Toyota rav4 was competitive, but no stick now and it got too big. Agree that Subuaru seats are for midgets though - too narrow and recessed across the back with poor lumbar. If you are a 10 YO boy you might be comfy in one.
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I am of the opinion that CR is not as objective as they like people to believe. If you go through their ratings you can get the hint that certain political and or policy items affect their ratings. I recently purchased an item in which CR rated near the bottom of their rankings. On their own site said item has over 40 5 star ratings and no ratings below 4 star. Almost all the reviews comment on how CR got it wrong. Most speculate that the poor rating was due to said products energy star rating and not its actual performance.
have owned 2 subarus myself, my brother as well.
we have also gone through 2 hondas (mine),3 hondas (wife), and 4 hondas (extended family).
of the 4 subarus, 400,000 miles total: 1 HG (2000 outback). 1 hazard flasher switch. no other failures. the dealer bought back the one that blew the HG.
acura MDX 01. early WP failure. 2 A/C blower failures. all before 90k. AT recall (hasn't failed)
honda ody 01: AT recall (no failure). multiple power door repairs at $700 each (can't use as a manual door, it won't latch if the motor fails). new A/c module $1200.
honda accord 02. could never get and keep it aligned by multiple shops, pulled to left always. reliable DD. poor mpg for a 2.4L (24mpg mixed, w/o AC). AT had weird 1-2 flare that made me nervous. sunroof and doors creaked on roadway.
honda civic 96. crooked seat! hurt back! showed dealer with measuring tape. refusal to correct. traded for a subaru.
honda accord 89. bulletproof accept for failed distributor.
honda crx '89. bulletproof vehicle; required yearly alignment.
honda crv. '97. AT failure ~65,000. chronic stretched valves.
02 civic. 2 electrical harness failures. and multiple electric gremlins. base model. reliable drivetrain.
later model civics have been reputed with engine block cracking by 40,000, per this forum.
in my experience, a subaru either runs forever or blows a HG. the hondas have been hit and miss but not what they were 15 years ago.
I wish the subaru's didn't look so... hyundai tiburon - ish.
we have also gone through 2 hondas (mine),3 hondas (wife), and 4 hondas (extended family).
of the 4 subarus, 400,000 miles total: 1 HG (2000 outback). 1 hazard flasher switch. no other failures. the dealer bought back the one that blew the HG.
acura MDX 01. early WP failure. 2 A/C blower failures. all before 90k. AT recall (hasn't failed)
honda ody 01: AT recall (no failure). multiple power door repairs at $700 each (can't use as a manual door, it won't latch if the motor fails). new A/c module $1200.
honda accord 02. could never get and keep it aligned by multiple shops, pulled to left always. reliable DD. poor mpg for a 2.4L (24mpg mixed, w/o AC). AT had weird 1-2 flare that made me nervous. sunroof and doors creaked on roadway.
honda civic 96. crooked seat! hurt back! showed dealer with measuring tape. refusal to correct. traded for a subaru.
honda accord 89. bulletproof accept for failed distributor.
honda crx '89. bulletproof vehicle; required yearly alignment.
honda crv. '97. AT failure ~65,000. chronic stretched valves.
02 civic. 2 electrical harness failures. and multiple electric gremlins. base model. reliable drivetrain.
later model civics have been reputed with engine block cracking by 40,000, per this forum.
in my experience, a subaru either runs forever or blows a HG. the hondas have been hit and miss but not what they were 15 years ago.
I wish the subaru's didn't look so... hyundai tiburon - ish.
Originally Posted By: R2d2
Originally Posted By: deven
here is the AOL article on the same subject.
I'm most surprised by Ford's huge fall on the list.
\
I did not read the article yet, but if Ford fell it almost assuredly due to My Ford Touch and Sync. When these things work they are great but when they fail it is miserable and very noticeable.
Originally Posted By: deven
here is the AOL article on the same subject.
I'm most surprised by Ford's huge fall on the list.
\
I did not read the article yet, but if Ford fell it almost assuredly due to My Ford Touch and Sync. When these things work they are great but when they fail it is miserable and very noticeable.
Yep it appear its the my touch stuff. It would drive me crazy if my stereo/nav system didn't work write, Cnet did a recent review of the Ford Focus Titanium and they liked everything about the car, except the my touch system which was uber glitchy, go figure.
In my 2010 F150 I had a lot of Sync issues. It was really [censored] me off, the thing needed to be reset constantly. Finally I got an update that worked and it never had an major issue again. But those 6 or so months it did not work I cursed at my truck daily.
My 2011 has been error free so far.
My 2011 has been error free so far.
Originally Posted By: PZR2874
Originally Posted By: AITG
Happily traded my 2006 Forester for a 2011 F150.
The Subaru needed head gaskets at less than 85,000 miles. I maintained the car by the book - coolant changed every 30k. Added Subaru "coolant conditioner" every time.
For me, Ford replaces Subaru.
NA Fozzy I presume? They had issues, did you not keep up with the TSB's and issues on it?
Yes, it was NA. Supposedly the head gasket problem was "fixed" after the 03 models. The "coolant conditioner" was amazingly similar to a stop leak type product.
AFA TSBs- I never saw anything on HG issues beyond using the stop leak.
I was amazed at the amount of maintenance required every 30k. I would have been OK with it ... if it had worked.
Originally Posted By: AITG
Happily traded my 2006 Forester for a 2011 F150.
The Subaru needed head gaskets at less than 85,000 miles. I maintained the car by the book - coolant changed every 30k. Added Subaru "coolant conditioner" every time.
For me, Ford replaces Subaru.
NA Fozzy I presume? They had issues, did you not keep up with the TSB's and issues on it?
Yes, it was NA. Supposedly the head gasket problem was "fixed" after the 03 models. The "coolant conditioner" was amazingly similar to a stop leak type product.
AFA TSBs- I never saw anything on HG issues beyond using the stop leak.
I was amazed at the amount of maintenance required every 30k. I would have been OK with it ... if it had worked.
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Originally Posted By: spock1
Who makes the best cars?Subaru replaces Honda as the top automaker according to Consumer Reports.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/consumer-reports-magazine/April-2012/who-makes-the-best-cars.html
Watching the news last night, I saw this story on the ABC station here in Chicago:
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/consumer&id=8561742
Hmmm, not a single mention about Subaru in that story.
It just shows, you can twist the data to get any sort of result you want.
Who makes the best cars?Subaru replaces Honda as the top automaker according to Consumer Reports.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/consumer-reports-magazine/April-2012/who-makes-the-best-cars.html
Watching the news last night, I saw this story on the ABC station here in Chicago:
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/consumer&id=8561742
Hmmm, not a single mention about Subaru in that story.
It just shows, you can twist the data to get any sort of result you want.
I'm sorry, I don't see much difference in quality between manufacturers anymore. They all have their lemons and they all have their jems.
I think they are all about the same, so you might as well buy what you like.
I think they are all about the same, so you might as well buy what you like.
Originally Posted By: css9450
Originally Posted By: spock1
Who makes the best cars?Subaru replaces Honda as the top automaker according to Consumer Reports.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/consumer-reports-magazine/April-2012/who-makes-the-best-cars.html
Watching the news last night, I saw this story on the ABC station here in Chicago:
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/consumer&id=8561742
Hmmm, not a single mention about Subaru in that story.
It just shows, you can twist the data to get any sort of result you want.
No its a form of yellow journalism by your local station. Consumer reports clearly put Subaru at the top and Chrysler clearly at the bottom.
Originally Posted By: spock1
Who makes the best cars?Subaru replaces Honda as the top automaker according to Consumer Reports.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/consumer-reports-magazine/April-2012/who-makes-the-best-cars.html
Watching the news last night, I saw this story on the ABC station here in Chicago:
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/consumer&id=8561742
Hmmm, not a single mention about Subaru in that story.
It just shows, you can twist the data to get any sort of result you want.
No its a form of yellow journalism by your local station. Consumer reports clearly put Subaru at the top and Chrysler clearly at the bottom.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
I'm sorry, I don't see much difference in quality between manufacturers anymore. They all have their lemons and they all have their jems.
I think they are all about the same, so you might as well buy what you like.
+1
I'm sorry, I don't see much difference in quality between manufacturers anymore. They all have their lemons and they all have their jems.
I think they are all about the same, so you might as well buy what you like.
+1
Originally Posted By: R2d2
No its a form of yellow journalism by your local station. Consumer reports clearly put Subaru at the top and Chrysler clearly at the bottom.
Not really, its just two different CR surveys with entirely different results. The ABC station is quoting a legitimate CR survey that lists ten "top picks", of which 5 are Toyota, and one each from Ford, GM, Hyundai, Subaru and Infiniti. The article linked in the original post appears to be an equally-legitimate CR survey that puts Subaru in the top spot overall (apparently). Which is right? Who knows. I don't really care though; I drive neither.
No its a form of yellow journalism by your local station. Consumer reports clearly put Subaru at the top and Chrysler clearly at the bottom.
Not really, its just two different CR surveys with entirely different results. The ABC station is quoting a legitimate CR survey that lists ten "top picks", of which 5 are Toyota, and one each from Ford, GM, Hyundai, Subaru and Infiniti. The article linked in the original post appears to be an equally-legitimate CR survey that puts Subaru in the top spot overall (apparently). Which is right? Who knows. I don't really care though; I drive neither.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
I'm sorry, I don't see much difference in quality between manufacturers anymore. They all have their lemons and they all have their jems.
I think they are all about the same, so you might as well buy what you like.
This is where most modern cars are... pretty much all good.
You never hear about the good ones, only the bad ones. And everybody makes a few lemons, every single mfgr.
And while anecdotal evidence may not mean much across the entire line, my lowly Chrysler has been the best car I have ever owned in over 40 years. Especially if compared to other cars capable of 180 mph.
I'm sorry, I don't see much difference in quality between manufacturers anymore. They all have their lemons and they all have their jems.
I think they are all about the same, so you might as well buy what you like.
This is where most modern cars are... pretty much all good.
You never hear about the good ones, only the bad ones. And everybody makes a few lemons, every single mfgr.
And while anecdotal evidence may not mean much across the entire line, my lowly Chrysler has been the best car I have ever owned in over 40 years. Especially if compared to other cars capable of 180 mph.
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Originally Posted By: Shark
Love is blind and people love their Subarus.
Not sure if you're serious or making fun of their ad campaign...
Expectations are another thing. People have very high expectations for Honda based on their price and reputation for reliability... think of the old Civics that get several hundred thousand miles with little maintenance and few if any repairs. Therefore, they might complain about things they would let slide with other brands.
That's the problem with these reviews. Everything is subjective.
Love is blind and people love their Subarus.
Not sure if you're serious or making fun of their ad campaign...
Expectations are another thing. People have very high expectations for Honda based on their price and reputation for reliability... think of the old Civics that get several hundred thousand miles with little maintenance and few if any repairs. Therefore, they might complain about things they would let slide with other brands.
That's the problem with these reviews. Everything is subjective.
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