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We'll have our jeeps as long as there's fuel to put in the tank. I'll never run out of parts and can, if need be, adapt just about any other drive train component to them.
Who actually keeps their vehicle forever?
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Originally Posted By: eljefino
Several years back when gas was shooting up I figured it got better MPG than newer stuff hobbled by NOx emissions, so I re-ringed the motor and did new struts. I don't see too many 2000-2010 vehicles that excite me technologically. In a way I feel like a previous generation must have felt in the 1970s when compression was dropping, cats strangling exhausts, net HP just came out, etc.
That's exactly how I feel when I was forced to shop for a new car 3 years ago when my wife complains that the car smells old and bouncy. I was looking at first in the typical economy cars and found nothing better than what I'm replacing it with, and wife also agree. I don't need 4 more airbags and 600lb more when getting the same fuel economy as I already get, what's the point in that?
Several years back when gas was shooting up I figured it got better MPG than newer stuff hobbled by NOx emissions, so I re-ringed the motor and did new struts. I don't see too many 2000-2010 vehicles that excite me technologically. In a way I feel like a previous generation must have felt in the 1970s when compression was dropping, cats strangling exhausts, net HP just came out, etc.
That's exactly how I feel when I was forced to shop for a new car 3 years ago when my wife complains that the car smells old and bouncy. I was looking at first in the typical economy cars and found nothing better than what I'm replacing it with, and wife also agree. I don't need 4 more airbags and 600lb more when getting the same fuel economy as I already get, what's the point in that?
Generally, I try and keep my vehicles for as long as I possibly can. But I, too, have the 'drive it till the wheels fall off' mentality because, not only is it a learning experience where you get to replace parts over the years, but keeping up with the maintenance like a true BITOGer also ensures the car stays on the road for a very long time. Suppose it can also be considered a hobby, working on the car on weekends.
My Montero carries sentimental value, and that I am keeping 'forever' regardless. I've had to sell off two of my cars for financial reasons to help fund my sister's education, but this truck is staying. The same goes for my current Grand Marquis, considering its age.
My Montero carries sentimental value, and that I am keeping 'forever' regardless. I've had to sell off two of my cars for financial reasons to help fund my sister's education, but this truck is staying. The same goes for my current Grand Marquis, considering its age.
We are forced to eventually update fleet vehicles, but we routinely put 2 or 3 hundred thousand miles on them first.
With any new vehicle we carefully track its repair history. We then decide whether it's a "keeper".
If it's not, we sell it.
With any new vehicle we carefully track its repair history. We then decide whether it's a "keeper".
If it's not, we sell it.
My Olds Cutlass has been in the "family" for 22 years. New brakes, struts, all kinds of door dings, and rock chips, but it has a look that I like and drives like a dream yet. Plus it has that "cool" digi-dash
I cant imagine getting rid of it. Same with my '08 Mercury GMQ, I plan to keep Her for a long time.
I cant imagine getting rid of it. Same with my '08 Mercury GMQ, I plan to keep Her for a long time.Originally Posted By: Paulson
My parents and my philosophy has always been to drive a used car until it no longer works and is no longer feasible to repair (IE bad frame)
Replacing an engine or transmission is cheaper than monthly car payments.
I'm not nitpicking on Paulson specifically, but I see this lamented over and over and have a couple of points.
1/ there will come a time when repairs and maintenance EQUAL a monthly car payment. This will likely happen long before "frame replacement".
2/ while you're keeping an older car on the road, instead of using the extra money to buy discretionary things (to take from other posts - toy cars, vacations, TVs) save it to buy your next car so that YOU DON'T NEED CAR PAYMENTS even when you replace your current vehicle.
2a/ Your "new car" can easily be a used car. That really modifies the depreciation curve. I've never had a new car, and I may never get one.
3/ It may not be an issue with many here, but a lot of people don't take as much care as they think they do. I see it every day. They will say "no problems except a starter in 300k - runs great! Best car I've ever had!" Meanwhile their suspension is shot, bushings are rattling loose, springs are cracked, only 1.5 brakes actually work, they couldn't perform an emergency avoidance if needed, there's a cloud of blue smoke behind them, their headlight adjusters are broken and one is shining on the road in front of them and the other is flickering into the mirrors of the person in front of them on every bump, the seats are torn and the interior smells like a gym sock. Over time soft things get hard, hard things get soft, and everything wears out. I'm very dubious that anyone claiming hundreds of thousands of miles with little service and "no problems" simply isn't paying attention. ***If you keep them on the road, keep them SAFE.***
Honestly, in terms of an 'oil' forum, one of the LAST things standing in our way of keeping a car forever is the engine.
My parents and my philosophy has always been to drive a used car until it no longer works and is no longer feasible to repair (IE bad frame)
Replacing an engine or transmission is cheaper than monthly car payments.
I'm not nitpicking on Paulson specifically, but I see this lamented over and over and have a couple of points.
1/ there will come a time when repairs and maintenance EQUAL a monthly car payment. This will likely happen long before "frame replacement".
2/ while you're keeping an older car on the road, instead of using the extra money to buy discretionary things (to take from other posts - toy cars, vacations, TVs) save it to buy your next car so that YOU DON'T NEED CAR PAYMENTS even when you replace your current vehicle.
2a/ Your "new car" can easily be a used car. That really modifies the depreciation curve. I've never had a new car, and I may never get one.
3/ It may not be an issue with many here, but a lot of people don't take as much care as they think they do. I see it every day. They will say "no problems except a starter in 300k - runs great! Best car I've ever had!" Meanwhile their suspension is shot, bushings are rattling loose, springs are cracked, only 1.5 brakes actually work, they couldn't perform an emergency avoidance if needed, there's a cloud of blue smoke behind them, their headlight adjusters are broken and one is shining on the road in front of them and the other is flickering into the mirrors of the person in front of them on every bump, the seats are torn and the interior smells like a gym sock. Over time soft things get hard, hard things get soft, and everything wears out. I'm very dubious that anyone claiming hundreds of thousands of miles with little service and "no problems" simply isn't paying attention. ***If you keep them on the road, keep them SAFE.***
Honestly, in terms of an 'oil' forum, one of the LAST things standing in our way of keeping a car forever is the engine.
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I bought my Jeep in May of 96...still own it. Bought my VW in Sep of 03....still own it. I plan on keeping these two for a very long time.
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
I hope I can keep my vehicle forever. I cringe to think I'll eventually have to rebuild the engine or transmission, though. I think I would have no problem buying a new vehicle, but it's nice to NOT have a monthly payment.
Maintain your car or truck religiously and don't abuse them and you will turn the longevity odds in your favor.
I hope I can keep my vehicle forever. I cringe to think I'll eventually have to rebuild the engine or transmission, though. I think I would have no problem buying a new vehicle, but it's nice to NOT have a monthly payment.
Maintain your car or truck religiously and don't abuse them and you will turn the longevity odds in your favor.
I never kept any of my previous cars for more than 2-3 years, but they were all 10 years old or more when I got them. The only car that I would've kept longer was my 95 5spd Accord, that I bought in 2004, and had only one previous owner, I truly liked that car and it was in perfect condition, but it was totalled in 2006
.
Funny how it works, my previous used cars were all working fine, but I sold them as I got tired of them, but when I found a car I truly liked and enjoyed driving, it gets totalled.
Anyway, my Mazda was bought brand new and I plan to keep this one as long as I can, minimum 10 years, but 15+ years is my goal.
Funny how it works, my previous used cars were all working fine, but I sold them as I got tired of them, but when I found a car I truly liked and enjoyed driving, it gets totalled.
Anyway, my Mazda was bought brand new and I plan to keep this one as long as I can, minimum 10 years, but 15+ years is my goal.
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
Originally Posted By: Paulson
My parents and my philosophy has always been to drive a used car until it no longer works and is no longer feasible to repair (IE bad frame)
Replacing an engine or transmission is cheaper than monthly car payments.
I'm not nitpicking on Paulson specifically, but I see this lamented over and over and have a couple of points.
1/ there will come a time when repairs and maintenance EQUAL a monthly car payment. This will likely happen long before "frame replacement".
On some complex cars this is probably true if you want to keep all the frivolous stuff in perfect working order. But on a simple fwd manual trans car with manual everything except brakes and steering, it would be hard to match even a $300/month payment with repairs for a very long time before almost everything of importance would be replaced... Also if you are a bit handy it gets cheaper again for some simple parts swapping.
My Neon does require the odd repair but its still pretty cheap to keep it in good shape for my commute and autocrossing on the weekend.
Originally Posted By: Paulson
My parents and my philosophy has always been to drive a used car until it no longer works and is no longer feasible to repair (IE bad frame)
Replacing an engine or transmission is cheaper than monthly car payments.
I'm not nitpicking on Paulson specifically, but I see this lamented over and over and have a couple of points.
1/ there will come a time when repairs and maintenance EQUAL a monthly car payment. This will likely happen long before "frame replacement".
On some complex cars this is probably true if you want to keep all the frivolous stuff in perfect working order. But on a simple fwd manual trans car with manual everything except brakes and steering, it would be hard to match even a $300/month payment with repairs for a very long time before almost everything of importance would be replaced... Also if you are a bit handy it gets cheaper again for some simple parts swapping.
My Neon does require the odd repair but its still pretty cheap to keep it in good shape for my commute and autocrossing on the weekend.
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
1/ there will come a time when repairs and maintenance EQUAL a monthly car payment. This will likely happen long before "frame replacement".
If you pay a mechanic for everything the bell curve bumps your keester at around 12 years/ 175-200k. You can of course then trade in on a $3000 car that's 6 years old with 90k and get $700 for the old clunker.
If you DIY parts cars are $300 or so and the fun really begins.
If you don't, you can duck out at this point with little shame.
1/ there will come a time when repairs and maintenance EQUAL a monthly car payment. This will likely happen long before "frame replacement".
If you pay a mechanic for everything the bell curve bumps your keester at around 12 years/ 175-200k. You can of course then trade in on a $3000 car that's 6 years old with 90k and get $700 for the old clunker.
If you DIY parts cars are $300 or so and the fun really begins.
Keeping the truck forever. Regular maintenance and oil changes are cheaper than payments on a new vehicle and higher insurance. Plus I KNOW that I'm drivig a truck that has been maintained.
Kestas
Staff member
Factoid: Only 3% of the cars purchased are owned cradle-to-grave, where the owner buys the car new, then calls the salvage yard to junk it after it is consumed. I imagine this excludes crashed cars.
Why not? The true secret is to have enough vehicles in the stable to be able to work on them as is needed without screwing up your transportation options...
Having a rolling parts car (or bike) can really help.
Picking the right vehicles to begin with is vital.
Fixing things when they need fixin' is mandatory.
I realize that in a lot of places it is almost impossible to have the room to keep more than a couple vehicles. This can be due to one or all of the following factors:
1) State or local laws don't allow you to have as many as you would like because of licensing, taxation, storage or insurance OVER-Regulation.
2) There is no place to put them (as in "apartment living").
3) It just plain co$t$ too much (see #1).
Fortunately (for me) there still remain places where I can basically have as many vehicles as I feel I want. I realize I'm a bit of a dinosaur: face it, we may be the last of our breed to exist in this OH!, so politically correctum and environmentally perfect New World Order!
But I don't give a rip! All my vehicles are legally licensed and insured (when on the road), paid for, and in good running order (except the Nighthawk wich needs to have the new (and now fully charged) battery installed.
As I say to my insurance agent "I can only drive (or ride) one at a time..."
Cheers!
Having a rolling parts car (or bike) can really help.
Picking the right vehicles to begin with is vital.
Fixing things when they need fixin' is mandatory.
I realize that in a lot of places it is almost impossible to have the room to keep more than a couple vehicles. This can be due to one or all of the following factors:
1) State or local laws don't allow you to have as many as you would like because of licensing, taxation, storage or insurance OVER-Regulation.
2) There is no place to put them (as in "apartment living").
3) It just plain co$t$ too much (see #1).
Fortunately (for me) there still remain places where I can basically have as many vehicles as I feel I want. I realize I'm a bit of a dinosaur: face it, we may be the last of our breed to exist in this OH!, so politically correctum and environmentally perfect New World Order!
But I don't give a rip! All my vehicles are legally licensed and insured (when on the road), paid for, and in good running order (except the Nighthawk wich needs to have the new (and now fully charged) battery installed.
As I say to my insurance agent "I can only drive (or ride) one at a time..."
Cheers!
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
On some complex cars this is probably true if you want to keep all the frivolous stuff in perfect working order. But on a simple fwd manual trans car with manual everything except brakes and steering, it would be hard to match even a $300/month payment with repairs for a very long time before almost everything of importance would be replaced... Also if you are a bit handy it gets cheaper again for some simple parts swapping.
My Neon does require the odd repair but its still pretty cheap to keep it in good shape for my commute and autocrossing on the weekend.
Well, we didn't bring up the point of owner expectations. I expect everything to work reliably. As the years roll by I lower my spending on "restoration" as it becomes "silly" at some point but my goal is that nothing is "frivilous". I still expect my car to perform, not be a rattling death trap, be safe for the kids, look good, handle being pushed in the twisties from time to time and still be fun.
If one doesn't find driving "fun", that's a different category of driver where the vehicle is merely an appliance of transport. I guess it boils down to "car guys" having different expectations of condition and what "no problems" means compared to "non car guys".
I also regularly apply frivilous things like polish and sealant to keep it looking like new.
eljefino is also bang on about DIY - do whatever you can DIY as long as you're able to do it properly (back to my SAFETY comment) and you'll save a bundle.
I also sympathize with the comments about "spare" cars. There are a number of jobs over the years I couldn't DIY because I couldn't have the car off the road long enough to do it right/figure it out DIY.
I have no plans to sell my 1998 BMW daily/only driver, but I would never say "forever". I don't think I could ever take it from a polished, tight, well-treated, emotionally invested hobby to just one day deciding to let it go as a "gravel road beater". I'd rather read the writing on the wall at some point and sell it to the next enthusiast owner.
On some complex cars this is probably true if you want to keep all the frivolous stuff in perfect working order. But on a simple fwd manual trans car with manual everything except brakes and steering, it would be hard to match even a $300/month payment with repairs for a very long time before almost everything of importance would be replaced... Also if you are a bit handy it gets cheaper again for some simple parts swapping.
My Neon does require the odd repair but its still pretty cheap to keep it in good shape for my commute and autocrossing on the weekend.
Well, we didn't bring up the point of owner expectations. I expect everything to work reliably. As the years roll by I lower my spending on "restoration" as it becomes "silly" at some point but my goal is that nothing is "frivilous". I still expect my car to perform, not be a rattling death trap, be safe for the kids, look good, handle being pushed in the twisties from time to time and still be fun.
If one doesn't find driving "fun", that's a different category of driver where the vehicle is merely an appliance of transport. I guess it boils down to "car guys" having different expectations of condition and what "no problems" means compared to "non car guys".
I also regularly apply frivilous things like polish and sealant to keep it looking like new.
eljefino is also bang on about DIY - do whatever you can DIY as long as you're able to do it properly (back to my SAFETY comment) and you'll save a bundle.
I also sympathize with the comments about "spare" cars. There are a number of jobs over the years I couldn't DIY because I couldn't have the car off the road long enough to do it right/figure it out DIY.
I have no plans to sell my 1998 BMW daily/only driver, but I would never say "forever". I don't think I could ever take it from a polished, tight, well-treated, emotionally invested hobby to just one day deciding to let it go as a "gravel road beater". I'd rather read the writing on the wall at some point and sell it to the next enthusiast owner.
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
On some complex cars this is probably true if you want to keep all the frivolous stuff in perfect working order. But on a simple fwd manual trans car with manual everything except brakes and steering, it would be hard to match even a $300/month payment with repairs for a very long time before almost everything of importance would be replaced... Also if you are a bit handy it gets cheaper again for some simple parts swapping.
My Neon does require the odd repair but its still pretty cheap to keep it in good shape for my commute and autocrossing on the weekend.
Well, we didn't bring up the point of owner expectations. I expect everything to work reliably. As the years roll by I lower my spending on "restoration" as it becomes "silly" at some point but my goal is that nothing is "frivilous". I still expect my car to perform, not be a rattling death trap, be safe for the kids, look good, handle being pushed in the twisties from time to time and still be fun.
If one doesn't find driving "fun", that's a different category of driver where the vehicle is merely an appliance of transport. I guess it boils down to "car guys" having different expectations of condition and what "no problems" means compared to "non car guys".
I mean all the heated seats, auto climate control, remote starter, heated washer fluid, power locks, power sunroof, etc, stuff that has nothing to do with actual driving... Even AC is optional for my typical driving. Keeping all that stuff perfect isn't needed for me in my climate. A couple guys in my motorsports club have even pretty much stripped the interior of their DD/autocrosser. Their other car does family duty.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
On some complex cars this is probably true if you want to keep all the frivolous stuff in perfect working order. But on a simple fwd manual trans car with manual everything except brakes and steering, it would be hard to match even a $300/month payment with repairs for a very long time before almost everything of importance would be replaced... Also if you are a bit handy it gets cheaper again for some simple parts swapping.
My Neon does require the odd repair but its still pretty cheap to keep it in good shape for my commute and autocrossing on the weekend.
Well, we didn't bring up the point of owner expectations. I expect everything to work reliably. As the years roll by I lower my spending on "restoration" as it becomes "silly" at some point but my goal is that nothing is "frivilous". I still expect my car to perform, not be a rattling death trap, be safe for the kids, look good, handle being pushed in the twisties from time to time and still be fun.
If one doesn't find driving "fun", that's a different category of driver where the vehicle is merely an appliance of transport. I guess it boils down to "car guys" having different expectations of condition and what "no problems" means compared to "non car guys".
I mean all the heated seats, auto climate control, remote starter, heated washer fluid, power locks, power sunroof, etc, stuff that has nothing to do with actual driving... Even AC is optional for my typical driving. Keeping all that stuff perfect isn't needed for me in my climate. A couple guys in my motorsports club have even pretty much stripped the interior of their DD/autocrosser. Their other car does family duty.
My grandfather owns a 1977 Chevy pickup he purchased new with a Reading toolbox conversion, similar to this:
http://static.upillar.com/pictures/resources/277540/scaled/reading_bed_006.jpg
His has a camper top though.
It had over 250k miles on it when he did the head job. It was leaking oil quite a bit before the heads were done. He uses it as his work truck still. Not sure of the mileage now - well over 300k.
http://static.upillar.com/pictures/resources/277540/scaled/reading_bed_006.jpg
His has a camper top though.
It had over 250k miles on it when he did the head job. It was leaking oil quite a bit before the heads were done. He uses it as his work truck still. Not sure of the mileage now - well over 300k.
I am going to keep my Impreza until the repairs start costing more than the car is worth.
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada
Originally Posted By: Paulson
My parents and my philosophy has always been to drive a used car until it no longer works and is no longer feasible to repair (IE bad frame)
Replacing an engine or transmission is cheaper than monthly car payments.
I'm not nitpicking on Paulson specifically, but I see this lamented over and over and have a couple of points.
1/ there will come a time when repairs and maintenance EQUAL a monthly car payment. This will likely happen long before "frame replacement".
2/ while you're keeping an older car on the road, instead of using the extra money to buy discretionary things (to take from other posts - toy cars, vacations, TVs) save it to buy your next car so that YOU DON'T NEED CAR PAYMENTS even when you replace your current vehicle.
2a/ Your "new car" can easily be a used car. That really modifies the depreciation curve. I've never had a new car, and I may never get one.
3/ It may not be an issue with many here, but a lot of people don't take as much care as they think they do. I see it every day. They will say "no problems except a starter in 300k - runs great! Best car I've ever had!" Meanwhile their suspension is shot, bushings are rattling loose, springs are cracked, only 1.5 brakes actually work, they couldn't perform an emergency avoidance if needed, there's a cloud of blue smoke behind them, their headlight adjusters are broken and one is shining on the road in front of them and the other is flickering into the mirrors of the person in front of them on every bump, the seats are torn and the interior smells like a gym sock. Over time soft things get hard, hard things get soft, and everything wears out. I'm very dubious that anyone claiming hundreds of thousands of miles with little service and "no problems" simply isn't paying attention. ***If you keep them on the road, keep them SAFE.***
Honestly, in terms of an 'oil' forum, one of the LAST things standing in our way of keeping a car forever is the engine.
WRT your second point, we already do this, not having financed any car in many years. It was I who suggested that vacations and toy cars could be purchased based upon the savings involved in amortizing one's present car over more years and miles.
Now, cars are far more reliable in general than they were back in the day.
For example, the AC works well in all of our cars, even the thirteen year olds, and has never required any service on either vehicle.
Things that used to give trouble, like switches, power windows, rear window defrosters and so on no longer seem to be any problem.
The expensive assemblies, like the tranny and the engine, will easily outlast everything else, provided that they are decent designs to begin with, and are properly maintained.
If you define "forever" as around 200K, we have two that will get there within the next couple of years, and will likely be fully functional at that point.
At 200K, neither the van nor the '97 Accord will owe us anything at all.
Originally Posted By: Paulson
My parents and my philosophy has always been to drive a used car until it no longer works and is no longer feasible to repair (IE bad frame)
Replacing an engine or transmission is cheaper than monthly car payments.
I'm not nitpicking on Paulson specifically, but I see this lamented over and over and have a couple of points.
1/ there will come a time when repairs and maintenance EQUAL a monthly car payment. This will likely happen long before "frame replacement".
2/ while you're keeping an older car on the road, instead of using the extra money to buy discretionary things (to take from other posts - toy cars, vacations, TVs) save it to buy your next car so that YOU DON'T NEED CAR PAYMENTS even when you replace your current vehicle.
2a/ Your "new car" can easily be a used car. That really modifies the depreciation curve. I've never had a new car, and I may never get one.
3/ It may not be an issue with many here, but a lot of people don't take as much care as they think they do. I see it every day. They will say "no problems except a starter in 300k - runs great! Best car I've ever had!" Meanwhile their suspension is shot, bushings are rattling loose, springs are cracked, only 1.5 brakes actually work, they couldn't perform an emergency avoidance if needed, there's a cloud of blue smoke behind them, their headlight adjusters are broken and one is shining on the road in front of them and the other is flickering into the mirrors of the person in front of them on every bump, the seats are torn and the interior smells like a gym sock. Over time soft things get hard, hard things get soft, and everything wears out. I'm very dubious that anyone claiming hundreds of thousands of miles with little service and "no problems" simply isn't paying attention. ***If you keep them on the road, keep them SAFE.***
Honestly, in terms of an 'oil' forum, one of the LAST things standing in our way of keeping a car forever is the engine.
WRT your second point, we already do this, not having financed any car in many years. It was I who suggested that vacations and toy cars could be purchased based upon the savings involved in amortizing one's present car over more years and miles.
Now, cars are far more reliable in general than they were back in the day.
For example, the AC works well in all of our cars, even the thirteen year olds, and has never required any service on either vehicle.
Things that used to give trouble, like switches, power windows, rear window defrosters and so on no longer seem to be any problem.
The expensive assemblies, like the tranny and the engine, will easily outlast everything else, provided that they are decent designs to begin with, and are properly maintained.
If you define "forever" as around 200K, we have two that will get there within the next couple of years, and will likely be fully functional at that point.
At 200K, neither the van nor the '97 Accord will owe us anything at all.
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