Whiteface Ford owner validates that Ford is monitoring the oil change electronic data and denying warranties

[4WD]

You mean actually make sure leases do not come back abused? Yep.

I know it’s done- not just Ford either. GM, Honda and Toyota all do it in my area.

Most folks beat their cars/rentals like a red headed stepchild - so I expect them to look out for that…..

Well, might be overdue - people even brag about that kind of behavior …

 

[rstcso]

Ford, and most companies, pay third parties to analyze warranty claims. They look for common failures, but also fraud detection from their dealer networks. These companies definitely don't look at warranty, especially fraud, as a rounding error.

 

[ATex7239]

According to Ford's 2024 annual report, in Management's Discussion and Analysis (MD&A), page 60, payments for warranty costs are listed as one of the material cash requirements for the firm. Page 83 of the MD&A lists warranty costs as one of the firm's "critical accounting estimates" for reporting purposes. Page 107 of the annual report indicates that Ford has accrued a little over $14bn for warranty costs.

Now to really dig into this number more, we'd have to look at the notes to the financials to see how the firm prepares that accrual, how often it is updated, and whether it has proven historically accurate.

But it is fair to say that warranty costs are not a rounding error. This is one of many reasons why when people on the internet post stuff to the effect that companies don't argue about warranty coverage, they are mistaken. Ford, to take one example, has about $14bn reasons to argue about warranty coverage.

Finally, before anyone bashes Ford for what appears to be a large number, any meaningful analysis would need to look at its peer automotive firms in size (GM, Toyota, VW Group, etc.), unit sales, revenue, and what is built into those firms' warranty estimates. My point here is not to embarrass anyone on the forum, or to call out Ford as a crappy automaker, but to put some numbers on this idea that automakers don't care about warranty requirements because the figures involved are not material to them. That is not the case - the costs involved are material to the automakers, and so this gives them incentives to make sure that the issue the customer wants fixed is actually one of defective workmanship or parts.

I used to do field work for a large manufacturer (different industry than automotive) and when there was a recall up to 50% of our field labor was handling recalls/warranties. That is a big strain on the business and it is also a strain on the labor pool. If anyone thinks that didn’t have an effect on labor/material rates or employee retention they are sadly mistaken.

 

[rstcso]

What Honda vehicle is that where they noted owner refused oil change?

My 2025 Pilot Elite purchased in May.

 

[4WD]

How many times has the dealer not reset the service minder?

I have one vehicle on a dealer plan bcs of extended warranty - whilst I’m only on change 6 - they have always reset OLM and I do use a trick to verify the Conti’s got rotated etc … So far so good - but this is a very large dealership that is clearly willing to hire allot of staff - so they are making money somehow … We had a little chat about air filters last time - I had changed them so gotta wonder how that plays out … (I do take pictures of PM parts) …

 

[4WD]

While I had my OBDELEVEN hook up to my Audi to monitor DSG fluid temperature while changing the fluid i dug around in some of the information in the engine information and saw how many WOT I had done (6), the current octane of the gasoline in the tank, the lifetime average octane since new and so much more. I bet if it had ventilated seats it would’ve tracks how many time I farted in the seat lol

Would WOT runs be used against you - seems the ECM limited the RPM?

 

[RDY4WAR]

So be sure to reset the OLM when it gets to 20% or so mid-way through the OCI. Got it.

 

[4WD]

Can you not reset the maintenance minder manually at any time? For instance, the Tundra and Rx 350 are still set to 10k OCIs but I just reset them when I do the oil change at 5k. I do the same with the Kia which is set to 7500 mi OCIs.

I don’t know of any you can’t reset whenever …

 

[Thermo1223]

I get e-mails starting at 15% of oil life remaining from Onstar with the nearest dealer and then another from the dealer as well asking to schedule on the truck. They know...

 

[Wireman1987]

Whiteface Ford, a honorable Ford dealer out of West Texas, confirms what we all know. FOMOCO is using electronics to track oil changes and is denying engine warranties if the electronics don't show an oil change. One can perform a oil change according to factory maintenance manual, but if the electronics are not reset- FOMOCO won't count the oil change.

Keep records and write on the filter date and mileage.

 

[SC Maintenance]

According to Ford's 2024 annual report, in Management's Discussion and Analysis (MD&A), page 60, payments for warranty costs are listed as one of the material cash requirements for the firm. Page 83 of the MD&A lists warranty costs as one of the firm's "critical accounting estimates" for reporting purposes. Page 107 of the annual report indicates that Ford has accrued a little over $14bn for warranty costs.

Now to really dig into this number more, we'd have to look at the notes to the financials to see how the firm prepares that accrual, how often it is updated, and whether it has proven historically accurate.

But it is fair to say that warranty costs are not a rounding error. This is one of many reasons why when people on the internet post stuff to the effect that companies don't argue about warranty coverage, they are mistaken. Ford, to take one example, has about $14bn reasons to argue about warranty coverage.

Finally, before anyone bashes Ford for what appears to be a large number, any meaningful analysis would need to look at its peer automotive firms in size (GM, Toyota, VW Group, etc.), unit sales, revenue, and what is built into those firms' warranty estimates. My point here is not to embarrass anyone on the forum, or to call out Ford as a crappy automaker, but to put some numbers on this idea that automakers don't care about warranty requirements because the figures involved are not material to them. That is not the case - the costs involved are material to the automakers, and so this gives them incentives to make sure that the issue the customer wants fixed is actually one of defective workmanship or parts.

The Accrual for warranty is done at time of sale, for all future claims. If they over accrue they simple reclassify it later (fun games by accountants). Its also for "warranty and "and field service action costs" - aka campaigns and recalls that would have nothing to do with customer requested warranty usually.

As a comparator (per your request) GM for 2024 accrued a little over $10B and that included the 6.2l campaign and was a 40% increase from the previous year. And GM sells a lot more cars than Ford. Doing the math - Ford 4.5M global cars sold, GM 6M, Ford accrues almost double per vehicle that GM does and again GM accruals last year were very high due to 6.2l issues.

So Ford should maybe build better cars because customer warranty claims should be rounding error. Or there parking money in that accrual for whatever reason.

 

[ATex7239]

Keep records and write on the filter date and mileage.

There are apps you can download for free on your phone where you can take and load pic of receipts or even pics of the oil and filter underneath your hood just like people post all the time on here.

It is so easy to keep track of maintenance nowadays. I don’t know why somebody couldn’t or wouldn’t.

 

[SC Maintenance]

please delete

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Where under warranty, along with paper records and receipts, I keep all my filter takeoffs on a carboard tray in the basement. Takes up less than 2 sq ft of shelf space.
Reminds me I have a tray of FL-910S I was promising to cut open. Now I have lost interest since I am driving a Dutch/Italian Jeep.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Then there is the "Post your latest oil change" thread with pics.
Evidence readily accepted by even the most biased arbitrators!

 

[RBT]

The Accrual for warranty is done at time of sale, for all future claims. If they over accrue they simple reclassify it later (fun games by accountants). Its also for "warranty and "and field service action costs" - aka campaigns and recalls that would have nothing to do with customer requested warranty usually.

As a comparator (per your request) GM for 2024 accrued a little over $10B and that included the 6.2l campaign and was a 40% increase from the previous year. And GM sells a lot more cars than Ford. Doing the math - Ford 4.5M global cars sold, GM 6M, Ford accrues almost double per vehicle that GM does and again GM accruals last year were very high due to 6.2l issues.

So Ford should maybe build better cars because customer warranty claims should be rounding error. Or there parking money in that accrual for whatever reason.

Ford is a public company, so the financials are management's presentation of the company, but there are independent accountants who have to sign off on the methodology with respect to the accruals. But the point stands that warranty costs are material. Respectfully, you're shoveling alot of stuff in the air doesn't obscure the underlying point.

From GM's annual report, page 29 (MD&A, Consolidated Results discussion): "Cost primarily includes: (1) material and freight; (2) manufacturing, engineering, advertising, administrative and selling and warranty expense; and (3) non-vehicle related activity. Other primarily includes foreign exchange and non-vehicle related automotive revenues as well as equity income or loss from our nonconsolidated affiliates. Refer to the regional sections of this MD&A for additional information."

Fwiw: I do not own a Ford and have not owned one. But clearly, for Ford and GM, warranty expense is not a rounding error but rather a material aspect of the firms' cost structure.

 

[JavierH19]

Soon they'll be able to see what viscosity we're using.

They already can. The hot idle oil pressure gives away what you're using especially if it's a variable displacement pump.

 

[wemay]

They already can. The hot idle oil pressure gives away what you're using especially if it's a variable displacement pump.

I really can't say I've noticed my oil pressure fluctuate between viscosities used [cold idle, warm idle, part or full throttle]. Not saying it isn't happening, just haven't noticed.

 

[JavierH19]

I really can't say I've noticed my oil pressure fluctuate between viscosities used [cold idle, warm idle, part or full throttle]. Not saying it isn't happening, just haven't noticed.

On fords the oil pressure gauge is fake, same with the volt needle and I think the water temp gauge is made to not bounce too much and is smoothed out in the middle. But the real numbers are in the ecu which a scanner can see. iirc on f150's if you have at least 7psi it stays in the middle. If it's 25 psi for example it still stays in the middle. If you have 6 psi it goes to the bottom and the light turns on.

Owners thought there was something wrong with their vehicles because the needles always moved around a bit although that's how they're supposed to work so ford made them stay in the middle so they wouldn't show up to waste the dealers time over a nonexistent issue.

Funny enough I've seen one guy on here call gm junk because the oil, volt, and temp needles always move a bit because on fords they stay in the middle all the time. When people have been conditioned to oversimplicity to a point of being false anything slightly complex that's correct looks wrong to them. In trying to oversimplify things some ford owners think alternators don't work based on charging and rest mode like they do but rather stay in perfect output since the needle doesn't move up and down a little. Some think that oil pressure is constant and that the pumps turn at a speed independent to engine rpm or that the relief valve is the best ever since it always stays in the middle. And it wouldn't be their fault for thinking that if the needle stays in the middle all the time. I've seen it on other site posts and video comments.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Respectfully, you're shoveling alot of stuff in the air doesn't obscure the underlying point.

No, I think you are actually. Also willing to bet your an accountant, because it seems you can see the numbers in the cells but have no clue what they mean.

The question is not what they accrued, but what did they pay, and what amount of that payment is assigned as warranty vs campaign.

Spoiler alert - Its rounding error.

The industry readily accrues 30% over what they spend. https://www.warrantyweek.com/archive/ww20241003.html

Then of what they do spend, much of it is campaign - for example per 2024 GM financial report below, GM spent an additional $4B mostly the 6.2l campaign / recall. We also know that the bolt in 2021, which was sold in very low numbers, was $1.3T. So in reality the campaigns are a huge portion.

So definitely an estimate - but if you take accruals minus not spent minus campaign, you get warranty, which again, is rounding error.

An even smaller rounding error is the amount of warranty they pay that was actually customer caused. And likely an even bigger number is warranty they should have paid and simply declined.