Whiteface Ford- neighbor Ford dealer declined to cover transmission under warranty

[John105]

My read is that this is a dealer issue. The dealer doesn't want to do less profitable warranty work.

I've always heard it gets brushed aside. When my BMW had free maintenance for 4 years, on multiple occasions, the car was not ready same day, for an oil change. I didn't care I had a loaner, and as my car aged, a loaner newer than mine. I figured my work is free--they have some high dollar jobs waiting to be done that they do first.

 

[Nessism1]

My read is that this is a dealer issue. The dealer doesn't want to do less profitable warranty work.

My take as well. As previously mentioned in a different thread, my Honda Civic AC system failed, with the problem traced to parts under extended warranty. Dealer claimed that other parts also failed, and refused to fix the warranty parts unless I pay big money for non warranty repairs. I said no, and drove away. A second dealer looked at the car and said they will gladly fix the warranty stuff. If the problem goes deeper, we can deal with that later, they said. And so it went. It pays to get a second opinion.

 

[Kruse]

On a similar note, I got a large screw in one of my nearly-new tires bought at Walmart. I went to get a replacement tire under my road-hazard warranty.

I've purchased tires a few times at WM and it seems that I get hosed each time. (My opinion, I guess)
In the past, I've purchased some tires from them where I want them installed a few days later. Guess what? A few days later my tires were sold to somebody else and the replacements hadn't come in for installation.
So this time, I purchase my four tires and I take them home with me to be installed about a week later. I get a 7:00 AM appointment and I show up 15 minutes early. Two of their "tire techs" are outside smoking some sticks. I actually think that's a good thing because they are "on time and ready to work". I unload my tires and shoot the breeze with them. So far, so good. 7:00 AM comes and they disappear. Nobody is at the tire department until 8:00 AM and I happen to get the crabbiest TLE foreman (er...excuse me. ForeWOMAN) on planet earth. I manage to get out of there at about 10:00 and I go to pay my bill. They charged me $25 per tire for a "TIRE CARRY IN" fee. I protest this fee saying that I just paid for them a couple of days previous and reminded them that the last time I purchased from WM they sold my tires to somebody else. I managed to get my "carry in fee" returned, but she couldn't do it by refunding my credit card. They gave me cash right out of the register. She also told me that they will be putting up a sign that will say "No exceptions!" to the carry in fee.
That was probably my last tire purchase from them, unless I do an actually carry out sale and I never have see touch the tire again.

 

[MCompact]

A few observations…
I come from a “Ford family” but I haven’t owned a Ford product since 1998 (a 1984 Thunderbird Turbo I used as my work beater for five years). The reason is that none of the Ford dealers closest to me have competent employees in sales, service, or parts. Even my uncle (a Ford retiree) refuses to patronize them.
When I worked at BMW my dealership looked for ways to help customers. Apparently that business model is often disregarded.
As it stands now I have good dealers and indie shops to service the three brands I own and consequently I don’t plan to shop any other brands.

 

[Mtnbiker]

Below is some of my readings, videos and experiences with 10 speed transmissions.
My impression is most 10 speed transmissions and any manufacturers vehicle whether it be Toyota Ford Chevy, etc. all are terrible.
I don’t know how much of it is the EPA‘s fault and how much of it is the manufacturers fault but it seems that putting too many gears in too small case and using soft of materials such as steel up against soft aluminum is of course, a bad idea for the customer.

I SUED FORD AND WON. $12,000 I only got to keep, I think it was $7200 of it in the Lawyer kept the rest.

How many miles before your 10R80/10L80 self destructed?

Who rebuilt it?
What parts?
Did you mod your engine?
What type of driving?

Thorough description and details of my 202x has 9,000 miles and is stock! 10R80 Mach 1 transmission problems :

The car and transmission started having problems around 2k miles or so.

My car is at the dealership now for the fourth time and I’ve also had it at an independent shop, they said I should take it to a dealer because it is still under warranty and they have to fix it.

The dealer it is at now is the only one that would replace any parts of the transmission. They tried replacing the valve body, but they’re saying that there is internal transmission damage. They’re saying it’s due to excessive driving.

The car is all stock except for a few chassis/suspension parts.

In my opinion this is false advertising and or a lie. Since the car comes with: Michelin Cup 2 track tires on it from Ford!, Recaro racing seats, track and drag driving modes, 2 front splitters, rear spoiler with Gurney flap, heat exchanger for all the fluids, etc. and Ford marketed it as as a track car.

Ford has steadily built the Mustang into an all-around performer, as capable on a road course as it is on a drag strip, and the company’s marketing and PR efforts steadily push the car’s track capabilities.

So, what happens if you follow that message and take a Mustang to the track? As it turns out, Ford walks the walk.


“Taking your Mustang onto a track does not void the warranty,” confirms Matt Leaver of Ford Performance communications.
from: https://www.hagerty.com/media/news/will-your-new-car-warranty-cover-track-driving/#:~:text=Ford%20Mustang&text=“Taking%20your%20Mustang%20onto%20a,will%20not%20cover%20that%20damage.?vurlk=1732737750008-R87BJ43HA19Y

I’ve been doing a lot of research on this transmission and I am seeing that there is a class action lawsuit about this transmission, but I am not clear on what is going on with it. My opinion is did possibly Ford and Chevy buy off the judge? The judge dismissed a lot of the claims but there’s still at least three that are ongoing.

It seems very odd to me that Ford and Chevy together making this transmission would think it’s a good idea to have steel gears running on aluminum along with one of the gears having bearings on one side, but not the other(the P# gear, Or planetary 3 gear). It has other problems also that Ford has TSB‘s and upgraded parts on along with the aftermarket coming up with some upgrades/fixes.

One could ask- How much difference does the black anodized trashcan/clutch container/outer shell make in longevity vs non anodized and steel gears. I am thinking not enough to really mater in longevity? Does it take the life span of the transmission from 2k miles to 2.5k miles or to 200k or 300k?
I i’ve done a little research on this to try and figure out how much of an improvement it is.

I have not found any answer yet.
List of the latest 6 failures known for now:
If you learn better by visual and audio I have provided below links to such videos.
If you learn better by reading I Also below have provided my somewhat condensed version of the videos and information I found.
LIST OF LINKS:


https://youtu.be/PKIkUgli_gA?si=4NzdHhDYSwVx-q0R
https://youtu.be/1ovbquxKPgA?si=UIsyEUtMlIgWmmGp
https://youtu.be/XpbTQb_dHDs?si=3CmWMLjaV7ajBirJ

When it comes to Ford 10R80 failure points, Dunsford a Instructor at SIU, and a couple others I found, describes weak points for your Ford 10R80 and GM 10L80 10-speed to behave erratically and eventually fail.

1. CDF Drum. In earlier versions of the 10R80, a poorly designed bushing inside the CDF Drum slides out of position, allowing a Teflon seal to fail, resulting in pressure loss.
2. Outer Shell Problems. The 10R80’s outer shells are made of aluminum, which is softer than the steel used to make the transmission’s various clutches. Sometimes these clutches stick into the divots in the outer shell, causing weird shifts.
3. Valve Body. Valve bodies are what control the physical shifting in an automatic transmission. But if too much fine metallic contamination collects in the valve body, they behave out of spec. Which is why Dunsford always recommends replacing valve bodies anytime a 10R transmission is rebuilt.
4. (In the 10R80, planetary gear sets and the one-way clutch are vital for maintaining smooth gear shifts and appropriate gear ratios. Deficiencies in these components can lead to improper shifting or transmission failures. A faulty one-way clutch might cause skipping of gears or failure to hold power in specific gears.

Friction clutches also play a role in this system, and their wear can exacerbate these issues. Keeping an eye on gear shifting behavior can alert you to early signs of these problems. Repairing or replacing these components early can prevent costly overhauls. From: https://cartipsdaily.com/10r80-transmission-problems )

Another gentleman and his background:
https://www.f150forum.com/f118/unique-10r80-problem-solutions-experiences-options-566008/

I found this:
Alright so just for some background, I worked as a tech at Ford for 3 years (during gen1 coyote years). Later became a pipe welder, traveled around for 8 years. Now I’m a welding instructor and have been teaching for the past 2 years. I have plenty of experience with mechanical work automotive and motorcycle wise, with fords work and issues, and have plenty of equipment/ tools to do anything. Currently have several track only vehicles 2 c6 vettas and a TT Gen1 coyote F150. I do a lot of engine builds, mainly LS and its variants, and all gen coyotes, various transmissions, and I also do custom tuning using HP Tuners. The current issue is with my daily F150. Itshould be noted that I am a very spirited driver and rpm shifter lol. What’s not talked about, not replaced even on mild build 10R80’s like Suncoast or Monster, and unbelievably not a TSB, is a very poorly engineered P3 planetary and sun gear. P1 and P2 both have thrust bearing separating the sun gear and planetary. P3 has NOTHING, literally metal on metal, only relying on fluid quality and pressure. So if we have valve body issues and pressure issues like sticking valves in a valve body it’s going to grind down.

Only one company at this time makes a solution and that’s WIT, here’s the link for that:

Cheap for what it is, also has a core charge.
https://www.wittrans.com/New_part-new.php?part=A164580AK

1. Torque Converter Shudder. A problem that was much more common in Ford’s earlier six-speed (6R80) transmissions. Dunsford says it’s much less common in the 10R80 but can be an occasional issue.
2. Gear Driven Pump Noise. Sometimes the pump in charge of moving the automatic transmission’s hydraulic fluid makes noise. Again, this is a less common issue.

B

https://youtu.be/XpbTQb_dHDs?si=BHaylgLhNWw_5Dcp























https://youtu.be/XpbTQb_dHDs?si=BHaylgLhNWw_5Dcp























This guy does a number of videos on the Ford/Chevy 10 speed trans:

















https://youtu.be/M3EOzymusMc?si=8w9S2QgPud0Fq5at



Possible fixes or choices I have spitballed:

A) The TransmissionTR-9070 in the GT500? What would have to be done to transplant it into the MACH 1 and other vehicles?



B) Would this fit, work and be a great fix: The 10R140 is the largest 10R family member and was originally rated to 1,050 ft.-lbs. of peak torque in the 2020+ Super Duty. This has presumably been revised for 2023, as Ford debuted the 6.7L High Output PowerStroke, which makes 1,200 ft.-lbs. of peak torque. The 10R140 is currently exclusive to Ford Super Duty trucks.



I really do love this car!

The way it sounds inside and out, the tweeks I have made to the: interior sound, handling, looks, etc.

I put: full Window tenting, full Weathertech trunk and interior, a really expensive nice stereo in it, full paint protective film and some places two layers of PPF, ceramic coating.

I only use high-quality full synthetic motor oil in it. I started using mobile one supercar 5W 50.

I’ve spent a lot of money to protect it and upgrade it!



Spending another $5.5k to $11,000 just for the transmission alone at 9k miles, does not make me happy!



And on top of it again, are these upgrades/updates truly make the transmission last for 200,000+ miles or is it just make it last 1000 miles more?

 

[CKN]

Ford is a great American company. I am truly sorry their business model has descended into this level. This hardly bodes well for the future. If I were to replace my trusty 01 Tundra, it would be an F-150. If I could afford it, that is...

Hopefully there are reputable dealers to at least balance out the others. Again, this is hugely disturbing to me. I can tell you my dealings with a local Lexus dealership, Putnam Lexus in Redwood City, have been on the level.

Ford is a company is with what seems a systemic culture of poor quality control-that they have been "trying to address for many, many years.
AI Overview

In 2025, Ford has experienced a significant increase in vehicle recalls, reaching a record high for the company and exceeding the total recalls of any other automaker in a single year. By the end of June, Ford had issued 88 safety recalls, a number that has continued to rise. This surge in recalls is attributed to a proactive approach by Ford to address potential safety issues and quality concerns before they escalate, with a focus on improving quality across the company.

___________________
The costs have to be staggering.

 

[JeffKeryk]

We should be careful that we don't blame Ford (the corporate entity) for things that dealerships do, and vice versa.

My read is that this is a dealer issue. The dealer doesn't want to do less profitable warranty work.

Disagree.
Ford uses the dealership distribution model. If I as a customer pay for that vehicle in good faith, Ford should have standards for their dealers.

Sure, it would be great if everyone were an informed customer to deal with unscrupulous dealerships, but that's just not reality. If you buy the product in good faith, you should get what you paid for.

Again, I am highly disappointed that this stuff happens at any great American company. I hope it is very rare.
In my warranty dealings with Lexus, I believe they went above and beyond.

 

[Astro14]

Ford is a great American company. I am truly sorry their business model has descended into this level. This hardly bodes well for the future. If I were to replace my trusty 01 Tundra, it would be an F-150. If I could afford it, that is...

Hopefully there are reputable dealers to at least balance out the others. Again, this is hugely disturbing to me. I can tell you my dealings with a local Lexus dealership, Putnam Lexus in Redwood City, have been on the level.

If you are going to replace your trusty Tundra (and it would have to be wrecked in a collision before I would ever consider that) I would get a new Tacoma. Same size as your Tundra, honestly.

 

[IveBeenRued]

I’ve owned several new Fords. You have to be good haggling down at purchase and good at DIY post-purchase because you essentially don’t have a warranty. Once you drive off the lot, you’re own your own. You can either waste time bickering with the dealer and escalating to Ford or just replace the parts yourself.

My best story was from a few years ago when I had a 1.5 year old C-Max with 17K miles or so. I had a single $1900 repair that I actually went to the dealer for and afterwards, I got a nice letter stating that the totality of repairs on my vehicle had “exceeded the underwriting limits of the bumper to bumper warranty” and that “the vehicle is now considered to be out of warranty”.

I sold my F stock and have been buying Subarus, Toyotas, and GM ever since.

 

[JeffKeryk]

If you are going to replace your trusty Tundra (and it would have to be wrecked in a collision before I would ever consider that) I would get a new Tacoma. Same size as your Tundra, honestly.

I flat out love my Tundra. Except it sucks the gas. But the good news is, when the neighbors borrow it, it comes back full. Dig the FJ wheels! Only about 220K on the clock...

 

[D60]

I don't like to argue with guys right before they work on my vehicles etc.
but I've left a simple sheet of what I wanted done because ...maybe it gets lost in translation by the service advisor.
50/50 chance it helps

Agreed. Sadly, at least half the average population struggles with basic reading/writing. Among most technicians I'd say it's more like 75%+ and many of them fell into the trades because they fell out of typical schooling with C- and D grades -- quite possibly simply with learning disabilities that could be mitigated.

Now, this doesn't mean you can't be a great tech even if you can't compose a sentence, but I do wonder how they read service data, TSBs etc. In today's world if you can't read and follow detailed instructions with 25 steps, you're going to struggle at auto repair and will just stay as the LOF/brake guy.

Eric O said this in a very recent video: he's not smart, he just knows how to find service data and read it

 

[John105]

Come to think of it, my brother used to have a Ford Raptor. When he wasn't satisfied with an answer his selling dealership gave him, he went to one closer to his house, and that dealer told him you already took this to H****** Ford, and they already looked at it. We're not going to look at it again, take it to them if you feel you need to follow up. Where are the Whiteface Fords of the world?

 

[02SE]

When I was looking for a Dually tow vehicle, I looked at the three choices Ford, GM, and RAM. At the time the GM didn't have sufficient capacity, so it was out. Between Ford and RAM I had misgivings about both, but the tiebreaker was the CP4.2 HPFP used by Ford, and the known issues it has.

I recall the biggest Ford fanboy I've ever seen on an RV website, and his trials trying to get his beloved Ford fixed under warranty when the HPFP failed catastrophically. First the claim was used by Ford that there was water in the fuel, when that was proven to be a false claim, Ford dug in their heels and stuck with the story. Round and around it went, until the Ford Fanboy had to make an insurance claim to replace the entire fuel system for 10k+. Now deeply disillusioned and disgusted with Ford, and his formerly beloved truck, he bought a GM.

I think Fords warranty denial had mainly to do with the fact that any problems with the engine, could no longer be blamed on Navistar, as the Scorpion Diesel is an in-house design. I've heard of many other denied warranty claims since. I guess if you just deny warranty claims, you can state your in-house designed Diesel has no reliability issues...

I will say that 8 years after buying the RAM Dually, it has been great. A MUCH better and more capable truck than the '95 Dodge Dually I had from new for five years.