Maybe just use Valvoline Synpower oil?
Which oil additive now?
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Originally Posted By: Since1941
Maybe just use Valvoline Synpower oil?
Actually, I was using this additive with Valvoline Synpower oil as well as Pennzoil Platnum, and used oil analysis improved in both cases. I also mixed it with Valvoline VR1 racing oil in some of the other cars with good results. Had about a 4 year supply of it and didn't realize it wasn't out there to be had anymore.
I have another car (that has sat for 30 years) I recently got back up and running (has 60,000 on the clock). I ran some cleaner through it and 3 oil changes (for a flush of sorts), pulled the pan and checked things (very clean inside). I'm currently just running Rotella Diesel oil in it for it's stout cleaning additive package and higher ZDDP (supposably) because it's cheap and I never planned to keep it in the crankcase too long. I'm to the point I want to change the oil again and want to put something more permanent in there, and it still has a slight smoking issue that has slowly been clearing up the more I drive it. Without the additive anymore I'm not sure the VR1 racing oil would be the right choice. I have mixed feelings on it now since it appears it's not what it used to be. But this all starts getting into many more questions that I have pertaining to particular cars. I should start new threads for that or we'll get lost in this discussion.
My main interest here is seeing if anyone found a suitable replacement for something with alot of moly and zinc/phospherous.
Maybe just use Valvoline Synpower oil?
Actually, I was using this additive with Valvoline Synpower oil as well as Pennzoil Platnum, and used oil analysis improved in both cases. I also mixed it with Valvoline VR1 racing oil in some of the other cars with good results. Had about a 4 year supply of it and didn't realize it wasn't out there to be had anymore.
I have another car (that has sat for 30 years) I recently got back up and running (has 60,000 on the clock). I ran some cleaner through it and 3 oil changes (for a flush of sorts), pulled the pan and checked things (very clean inside). I'm currently just running Rotella Diesel oil in it for it's stout cleaning additive package and higher ZDDP (supposably) because it's cheap and I never planned to keep it in the crankcase too long. I'm to the point I want to change the oil again and want to put something more permanent in there, and it still has a slight smoking issue that has slowly been clearing up the more I drive it. Without the additive anymore I'm not sure the VR1 racing oil would be the right choice. I have mixed feelings on it now since it appears it's not what it used to be. But this all starts getting into many more questions that I have pertaining to particular cars. I should start new threads for that or we'll get lost in this discussion.
My main interest here is seeing if anyone found a suitable replacement for something with alot of moly and zinc/phospherous.
Originally Posted By: BrianWC
Originally Posted By: ahoier
I'm willing to bet the Valvoline product you speak of, is/was similar to that of the "STP Oil treatment" in the blue bottle
Was it think like honey? 
Yeah if he's speaking of VSOT, it was pretty well thought of around here for a while. It was super thick but the main reason people liked it was bc it had loads of moly in it. There's gotta be a VOA on here for it.
It also had a goodly amount of boron and calcium, as well as (hopefully high quality) polymeric VI improvers (what made it soooo viscous).
Originally Posted By: ahoier
I'm willing to bet the Valvoline product you speak of, is/was similar to that of the "STP Oil treatment" in the blue bottle
Yeah if he's speaking of VSOT, it was pretty well thought of around here for a while. It was super thick but the main reason people liked it was bc it had loads of moly in it. There's gotta be a VOA on here for it.
It also had a goodly amount of boron and calcium, as well as (hopefully high quality) polymeric VI improvers (what made it soooo viscous).
Originally Posted By: jonny-b
Why not try a bottle of Lubeguard Biotech Engine Oil Protectant?
It will improve almost any oil.
Now that's the info I was hoping to find. Any experience with it? used oil analysis? Or better yet, any oil annalis on the product itself? Where to buy?
Why not try a bottle of Lubeguard Biotech Engine Oil Protectant?
It will improve almost any oil.
Now that's the info I was hoping to find. Any experience with it? used oil analysis? Or better yet, any oil annalis on the product itself? Where to buy?
I like the LubroMoly MoS2. My old Camry had a lousy idle..Its much smoother..AC or fans kick in at idle..instead of dropping too low and chugging responds just as it should.
its amazing how many people use additives when not needed it also blows my mind when people start mixing things into their oil and the engine runs better than ever. When we rebuild an engine and we do lots of them in the warranty agreement we tell them to use what was recommended for their vehicle when new. We also tell people use of additives will Void the waranty, Period!
Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
its amazing how many people use additives when not needed it also blows my mind when people start mixing things into their oil and the engine runs better than ever. When we rebuild an engine and we do lots of them in the warranty agreement we tell them to use what was recommended for their vehicle when new. We also tell people use of additives will Void the waranty, Period!
I think you missed the part where it improved my used oil analysis, I'm not the only one. I believe there are alot of snake oils out there, but when you can back up improvements with factual used oil analysis and see it has reduced engine wear while using it in "what is supposed to be" top shelf oils, then I believe it's an oil additive worth mentioning. So unless you have used oil analysis backing any testing you have done then who is to know?
I'm guessing since the valvoline oil treatment has been discontinued there hasn't been anything much on the market judging by some of the comments, or we have people here commenting that have done no testing of their own. I thought there were supposed to be some real oil guru's on this site.....
its amazing how many people use additives when not needed it also blows my mind when people start mixing things into their oil and the engine runs better than ever. When we rebuild an engine and we do lots of them in the warranty agreement we tell them to use what was recommended for their vehicle when new. We also tell people use of additives will Void the waranty, Period!
I think you missed the part where it improved my used oil analysis, I'm not the only one. I believe there are alot of snake oils out there, but when you can back up improvements with factual used oil analysis and see it has reduced engine wear while using it in "what is supposed to be" top shelf oils, then I believe it's an oil additive worth mentioning. So unless you have used oil analysis backing any testing you have done then who is to know?
I'm guessing since the valvoline oil treatment has been discontinued there hasn't been anything much on the market judging by some of the comments, or we have people here commenting that have done no testing of their own. I thought there were supposed to be some real oil guru's on this site.....
Originally Posted By: TurboJim
Originally Posted By: stickshift
I thought there were supposed to be some real oil guru's on this site.....
There are many members here with many opinions.
Yeah I figured, I can find opinions all over the internet,,,I was looking for concrete evidence with UOA or VOA results, that's why I came here. Guess the rest of my questions wouldn't be worth asking. Worth a shot anyway. Thanks.
Originally Posted By: stickshift
I thought there were supposed to be some real oil guru's on this site.....
There are many members here with many opinions.
Yeah I figured, I can find opinions all over the internet,,,I was looking for concrete evidence with UOA or VOA results, that's why I came here. Guess the rest of my questions wouldn't be worth asking. Worth a shot anyway. Thanks.
used oil analysis are not concrete evidence of reduced engine wear. While your additives are busily causing corrosion, combustion chamber deposits, sticking rings, etc your used oil analysis numbers might be great.
Many examples abound of engines failing very prematurely, while giving great used oil analysis metal numbers.
The API requirements are based on teardowns, measurements and inspections of various engines and components after long and demanding test sequences.
Not on the quality of the oil going to the recyclers!!
One of our boutique oil blenders noted that one of the very best anti wear additives results in higher iron in the used oil analysis
due to chemical alloy's formed as they work.
If you are searching for antifreeze, water or gasoline dilution, then a used oil analysis can be very useful.
Many examples abound of engines failing very prematurely, while giving great used oil analysis metal numbers.
The API requirements are based on teardowns, measurements and inspections of various engines and components after long and demanding test sequences.
Not on the quality of the oil going to the recyclers!!
One of our boutique oil blenders noted that one of the very best anti wear additives results in higher iron in the used oil analysis
due to chemical alloy's formed as they work.
If you are searching for antifreeze, water or gasoline dilution, then a used oil analysis can be very useful.
jonny-b +1..i see it this way, no oil is perfect!! so to discount a really good additive, imho, not the way to go..i say use a great oil additive. such as lubegard, red line,lat. your engine oil will be more close to perfect then without..all my opinion....these big oil companies cut corners to save them money and charge you alot of money..their in the bussiness to make money and not to produce a perfect oil...one would have to go to red line,motul,amsoil,and the rest of the boutiques to get close to the perfect oil...and you pay for it!!
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Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
jonny-b +1..i see it this way, no oil is perfect!! so to discount a really good additive, imho, not the way to go..i say use a great oil additive. such as lubegard, red line,lat. your engine oil will be more close to perfect then without..all my opinion....these big oil companies cut corners to save them money and charge you alot of money..their in the bussiness to make money and not to produce a perfect oil...one would have to go to red line,motul,amsoil,and the rest of the boutiques to get close to the perfect oil...and you pay for it!!
I do use Amsoil in a few different things. Been wanting to become a dealer mainly to buy at wholesale prices. They do have a great product. I think I'll start another thread about engine oil with some different questions.
jonny-b +1..i see it this way, no oil is perfect!! so to discount a really good additive, imho, not the way to go..i say use a great oil additive. such as lubegard, red line,lat. your engine oil will be more close to perfect then without..all my opinion....these big oil companies cut corners to save them money and charge you alot of money..their in the bussiness to make money and not to produce a perfect oil...one would have to go to red line,motul,amsoil,and the rest of the boutiques to get close to the perfect oil...and you pay for it!!
I do use Amsoil in a few different things. Been wanting to become a dealer mainly to buy at wholesale prices. They do have a great product. I think I'll start another thread about engine oil with some different questions.
I don't have a used oil analysis or a VOA, but I've got a set of starter current draw tests. This was with about 1,500 to 2,000 miles on the oil and the engine 'warm' from 20 minutes of idling in springtime. The starter draw test was done in this warm state three times on each of three days before and after adding the additives. Current draw (but not cranking speed) was noted after 10 seconds of continuous cranking. The oil used is Citgo Supergard 10w30. After adding 1/2 ounce of Crane Cams Super Lube and a quarter of a bottle of Lubro Moly Mos2 treatment. Both were added at the same time (this was foolish but I lack patience). This was a year ago, so I don't have the actual numbers anymore but I found that within each set of 9 cranking tests I'd have a difference between maximum and minimum current draw of 6 or 7 amps. Ambient air temperature variations did not correlate with differences in cranking draw. I don't remember which had the 6 amp difference and which had the 7 amp difference. On average I needed 3.6 amps less to crank the engine after adding those additives. Being as I don't know squat about statitists I can't tell you if that number means anything.
It was enough raw data to give me the impression that at least one of those products reduced friction. It isn't enough that I'd claim I'm sure the additives are responsible for the lower current draw. Maybe one day I'll try again and keep proper records. I'm using G-Oil in that engine now which is giving me much better fuel economy so it could be interesting to see if there's no longer any benefit.
Addition:
After adding the additives I noticed a sharp increase (8 MPG) in fuel economy which trailed off over the next two months. I strongly suspect that I changed my driving style without realizing it.
After switching to G-Oil 5w30 I got another big MPG boost of 4 MPG which has remained and has not disappeared. I believe this is likely due to the different oil.
It was enough raw data to give me the impression that at least one of those products reduced friction. It isn't enough that I'd claim I'm sure the additives are responsible for the lower current draw. Maybe one day I'll try again and keep proper records. I'm using G-Oil in that engine now which is giving me much better fuel economy so it could be interesting to see if there's no longer any benefit.
Addition:
After adding the additives I noticed a sharp increase (8 MPG) in fuel economy which trailed off over the next two months. I strongly suspect that I changed my driving style without realizing it.
After switching to G-Oil 5w30 I got another big MPG boost of 4 MPG which has remained and has not disappeared. I believe this is likely due to the different oil.
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Originally Posted By: yonyon
I don't have a used oil analysis or a VOA, but I've got a set of starter current draw tests. This was with about 1,500 to 2,000 miles on the oil and the engine 'warm' from 20 minutes of idling in springtime. The starter draw test was done in this warm state three times on each of three days before and after adding the additives. Current draw (but not cranking speed) was noted after 10 seconds of continuous cranking. The oil used is Citgo Supergard 10w30. After adding 1/2 ounce of Crane Cams Super Lube and a quarter of a bottle of Lubro Moly Mos2 treatment. Both were added at the same time (this was foolish but I lack patience). This was a year ago, so I don't have the actual numbers anymore but I found that within each set of 9 cranking tests I'd have a difference between maximum and minimum current draw of 6 or 7 amps. Ambient air temperature variations did not correlate with differences in cranking draw. I don't remember which had the 6 amp difference and which had the 7 amp difference. On average I needed 3.6 amps less to crank the engine after adding those additives. Being as I don't know squat about statitists I can't tell you if that number means anything.
It was enough raw data to give me the impression that at least one of those products reduced friction. It isn't enough that I'd claim I'm sure the additives are responsible for the lower current draw. Maybe one day I'll try again and keep proper records. I'm using G-Oil in that engine now which is giving me much better fuel economy so it could be interesting to see if there's no longer any benefit.
Addition:
After adding the additives I noticed a sharp increase (8 MPG) in fuel economy which trailed off over the next two months. I strongly suspect that I changed my driving style without realizing it.
After switching to G-Oil 5w30 I got another big MPG boost of 4 MPG which has remained and has not disappeared. I believe this is likely due to the different oil.
Interesting way of testing whether it's conclusive or not. That's some enginuity right there.
I don't have a used oil analysis or a VOA, but I've got a set of starter current draw tests. This was with about 1,500 to 2,000 miles on the oil and the engine 'warm' from 20 minutes of idling in springtime. The starter draw test was done in this warm state three times on each of three days before and after adding the additives. Current draw (but not cranking speed) was noted after 10 seconds of continuous cranking. The oil used is Citgo Supergard 10w30. After adding 1/2 ounce of Crane Cams Super Lube and a quarter of a bottle of Lubro Moly Mos2 treatment. Both were added at the same time (this was foolish but I lack patience). This was a year ago, so I don't have the actual numbers anymore but I found that within each set of 9 cranking tests I'd have a difference between maximum and minimum current draw of 6 or 7 amps. Ambient air temperature variations did not correlate with differences in cranking draw. I don't remember which had the 6 amp difference and which had the 7 amp difference. On average I needed 3.6 amps less to crank the engine after adding those additives. Being as I don't know squat about statitists I can't tell you if that number means anything.
It was enough raw data to give me the impression that at least one of those products reduced friction. It isn't enough that I'd claim I'm sure the additives are responsible for the lower current draw. Maybe one day I'll try again and keep proper records. I'm using G-Oil in that engine now which is giving me much better fuel economy so it could be interesting to see if there's no longer any benefit.
Addition:
After adding the additives I noticed a sharp increase (8 MPG) in fuel economy which trailed off over the next two months. I strongly suspect that I changed my driving style without realizing it.
After switching to G-Oil 5w30 I got another big MPG boost of 4 MPG which has remained and has not disappeared. I believe this is likely due to the different oil.
Interesting way of testing whether it's conclusive or not. That's some enginuity right there.
Okay, found something interesting with the Lube Guard that a few recommended. Just to add first, the local transmission shop here believes in this stuff and puts it in every transmission they build. Doesn't mean much but I find that interesting.
Anyway some backround. I built the engine in my 70 formula about 15+ years ago. Machine shop (good friend of mine)recommended using only 20w-50 in this engine because he knew I had planned to race this car in pure stock so it would see some abuse,,,,and he also doesn't like the large diameter main bearings common in pontiacs (alot of bearing speed).
I've adheared to his recommendation religously and after all these years it still runs the same ET's when it was new, runs like a swiss watch. I have always used Valvoline VR1 racing 20w-50 (conventional stuff)
Now, this engine has always sounded like a sewing machine (lifters). Nothing bad and it never effected performance. I've lived with it and raced it for years. When built we converted this engine to adjustable valvetrain (stock Crane blueprint ram air III camshaft) and I currently run 1/2 turn preload past zero lash. No valvetrain issues. Experimented with different lash with no change in noise or performance. You can really hear it driving next to a wall with the window down, but you can't hear it in the car,,,it's very faint. Over the years I've become accustomed to it.
I had just changed the oil again about a month ago (about 50 miles on it) Still the same old sewing machine. Yesterday I bought a bottle of lubeguard to try in another car that has been sitting for 30 years. At the last minute I decided to dump it in the bird and take it for a drive. NO MORE SEWING MACHINE after more than 15 years. This thing is nice and quiet now. I simply couldn't believe it. Even now I'm still not sure but I'll drive it again tomorrow to confirm.
I have no clue why, or what this stuff did. I just don't have a clue at all. Did it thin the oil or change the viscosity? It's really thin stuff but there isn't all that much in a bottle so I can't see a drastic change in viscosity. I don't know if it's good or bad or what to think. Not even sure I want to keep trying it, and it will be a long while before I can do a used oil analysis on the car (seldom driven).
Any thoughts as to why? Maybe as I age I just can't hear anymore? (That's what my wife tells me)
Anyway some backround. I built the engine in my 70 formula about 15+ years ago. Machine shop (good friend of mine)recommended using only 20w-50 in this engine because he knew I had planned to race this car in pure stock so it would see some abuse,,,,and he also doesn't like the large diameter main bearings common in pontiacs (alot of bearing speed).
I've adheared to his recommendation religously and after all these years it still runs the same ET's when it was new, runs like a swiss watch. I have always used Valvoline VR1 racing 20w-50 (conventional stuff)
Now, this engine has always sounded like a sewing machine (lifters). Nothing bad and it never effected performance. I've lived with it and raced it for years. When built we converted this engine to adjustable valvetrain (stock Crane blueprint ram air III camshaft) and I currently run 1/2 turn preload past zero lash. No valvetrain issues. Experimented with different lash with no change in noise or performance. You can really hear it driving next to a wall with the window down, but you can't hear it in the car,,,it's very faint. Over the years I've become accustomed to it.
I had just changed the oil again about a month ago (about 50 miles on it) Still the same old sewing machine. Yesterday I bought a bottle of lubeguard to try in another car that has been sitting for 30 years. At the last minute I decided to dump it in the bird and take it for a drive. NO MORE SEWING MACHINE after more than 15 years. This thing is nice and quiet now. I simply couldn't believe it. Even now I'm still not sure but I'll drive it again tomorrow to confirm.
I have no clue why, or what this stuff did. I just don't have a clue at all. Did it thin the oil or change the viscosity? It's really thin stuff but there isn't all that much in a bottle so I can't see a drastic change in viscosity. I don't know if it's good or bad or what to think. Not even sure I want to keep trying it, and it will be a long while before I can do a used oil analysis on the car (seldom driven).
Any thoughts as to why? Maybe as I age I just can't hear anymore? (That's what my wife tells me)
Originally Posted By: Vikas
3.6 Amps was what percentage? What was the variation in the readings? I am sure you know where I am going with this.
As I said, I didn't record enough information to make any kind of reliable conclusion and I didn't keep my notes for long so I'm going by the numbers that I do remember. It's enough that I am considering trying it again. I don't have a suitable inductive ammeter at home though, so I'll have to wait until I'm ready to drive one car to work almost exclusively for three weeks. I'm thinking towards the end of summer, maybe. If I do, then I'll plan ahead to record the ambient temperature and the final draw from each cranking event. I don't have suitable means to measure oil temperature.
3.6 Amps was what percentage? What was the variation in the readings? I am sure you know where I am going with this.
As I said, I didn't record enough information to make any kind of reliable conclusion and I didn't keep my notes for long so I'm going by the numbers that I do remember. It's enough that I am considering trying it again. I don't have a suitable inductive ammeter at home though, so I'll have to wait until I'm ready to drive one car to work almost exclusively for three weeks. I'm thinking towards the end of summer, maybe. If I do, then I'll plan ahead to record the ambient temperature and the final draw from each cranking event. I don't have suitable means to measure oil temperature.
If my understanding is correct, starter current usually is in few hundreds of amps. If so, your 3.6A change would be at most one or two percentage point difference. Unless you consistently get that delta, it would be just a noise.
However, you are certainly on the right track to quantaize the gains. You would also have to keep the battery voltage constant for the test to be valid. That might in itself may turn out to be tricky.
I would still like to see you do the test and present the data.
However, you are certainly on the right track to quantaize the gains. You would also have to keep the battery voltage constant for the test to be valid. That might in itself may turn out to be tricky.
I would still like to see you do the test and present the data.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
If my understanding is correct, starter current usually is in few hundreds of amps. If so, your 3.6A change would be at most one or two percentage point difference. Unless you consistently get that delta, it would be just a noise.
However, you are certainly on the right track to quantaize the gains. You would also have to keep the battery voltage constant for the test to be valid. That might in itself may turn out to be tricky.
I would still like to see you do the test and present the data.
I don't think I'll be able to do much in the way of keeping battery voltage constant but can certainly record the voltage during cranking. I expect to see some difference in voltage from one cranking event to the next, but not from one day to the next.
If my understanding is correct, starter current usually is in few hundreds of amps. If so, your 3.6A change would be at most one or two percentage point difference. Unless you consistently get that delta, it would be just a noise.
However, you are certainly on the right track to quantaize the gains. You would also have to keep the battery voltage constant for the test to be valid. That might in itself may turn out to be tricky.
I would still like to see you do the test and present the data.
I don't think I'll be able to do much in the way of keeping battery voltage constant but can certainly record the voltage during cranking. I expect to see some difference in voltage from one cranking event to the next, but not from one day to the next.
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