when will the grand marquis production stop?

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n May 2004, at 43,498 miles, the upper ball joints, pittman arm and both tie rod ends were replaced.


In Sept 2003, at 29,281 miles, the right front upper ball joint was replaced.



Hmmm...the same ball joint on the same car in such a short amount of time. Either the parts are defective ..the driver(s) demolition derby wannabe's ..or the installer has to rethink the repair procedure
LOL.gif
 
I've got two decades worth of experience running these cars as fleet vehicles. Those two maintenance logs are unrealistic in terms of everybody else's experience with this platform. I have to go more with driver neglect than Ford mis-craftsmanship.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

Have to be. The statistics for the platform would show these two examples to be anomalies.


That actually looks pretty typical for a fleet used CVPI. Our fleet of CVPIs all have maintenance histories similar too that. They are usually not too bad up until 60,000 miles which is when they start to slide downwards. We typically keep our cars between 100,000 - 110,000 miles, which is put on in 2 - 2.5 years. Most of our cars run 24/7. We see a lot of transmission failures, suspension repairs, and brake work. Most have had one transmission replacement by the time they've been retired. I personally had one fail on me recently at about 30,000 miles, lost 3rd and 4th, but was still able to limp with 1st and second gear.

However, I doubt ANY car could go through the abuse these cars do and keep on going. Yes, they do require a lot of maintenance under extreme fleet use, but they are tough cars, and the 4.6L is virtually indestructable. When we ran Impala's, we had much higher repair frequencies, and the cars were not nearly as durable. The fuel economy savings were greatly outweighted by the higher maintenance costs.

That said, I have more miles behind the wheel of CVPI's than any other car. They are one of my all time favorite cars to drive, and if I had to buy a brand new vehicle, I would pick this car over more modern designs with hesitation. I prefer the traditional american car ride/handling over something like a Ford 500/Taurus - but that is subjective and it is MY preferance. The CVPI is actually not as crude as most people think, and it rides and handles A LOT better than a typical "grandpa special" soft sprung Grand Marquis (which I don't like).

Back ot the original topic, Ford will probably stop the production of the Crown Vic and Grand Marquis simply to shut down the St. Thomas, Ontario plant that produces them. I don't think the car is the problem, they want the plant gone, and it's the only one that produces the Panther body. The only reason the car has survived this long is because the demand has been strong and Ford makes good money off these cars with all tooling and devlopment costs long paid for. This was the same situation with the GM B-body cars. They still had decent demand, the were making money off them as well, but the plant could make more money producing Tahoes and Suburbans. Ford will make more money by shutting down St. Thomas.
 
Originally Posted By: kingrob
We get it. You're a troll who doesn't like Domestic vehicles. Go find another forum.


What, is this a domestic only forum? I thought it was a forum for general automotive topics. That's what the title says anyway. I guess it must be a forum only for those who agree to get together and talk about how they completely agree on things? It's funny how my alternate view point threatens you so much. I guess I haven't drank the Ford cool-aid yet.

Those posted service histories are more like my experience with these vehicles.

My point was production is stopping because it's a product that is not a viable business. I'm sure they would open another assembly line if they were making big profits from these vehicles. Sorry I hurt feelings.
 
Every post I've read of yours comes down to America= junk and Japan= me likey. We get it. You like Imports and hate domestics. That's why I called you a troll.

The title of this thread was "When will Grand Marquis production stop?" Not "Why does Gannet167 think that the Grand Marquis is a horrible car?"

I suggested you go to another forum because obviously you need to join a forum that is heavily anti domestic. Here, you're going to have people call you out on your bias and unsubstantiated claims. If I hurt your feelings, get used to it because it's all downhill from here.
 
Gannet167 picks the grand marquis/crown vic to pick on

bad idea becuase people that know cars know better.
In the long run it maybe the best car sold in america if you look at the total number of repairs and the total cost of the repairs. weLL cost of ownership per mile in the long run is very low. it's a great value when bought used and good value if bought new if you drive it till it's done.

sure it's old school/outdated, but this helps them be durable.
I use mine to pull my bass boat around, not many cars made can do that anymore and hold up in the long run.
I used my 1994 Grand marquis to towed my 2000 pound boat for how many thousand's of miles? it never shorten it's life span one mile
 
Originally Posted By: kingrob
Every post I've read of yours comes down to America= junk and Japan= me likey. We get it. You like Imports and hate domestics. That's why I called you a troll.

The title of this thread was "When will Grand Marquis production stop?" Not "Why does Gannet167 think that the Grand Marquis is a horrible car?"

I suggested you go to another forum because obviously you need to join a forum that is heavily anti domestic. Here, you're going to have people call you out on your bias and unsubstantiated claims. If I hurt your feelings, get used to it because it's all downhill from here.


Dang
 
Originally Posted By: Gannet167
Originally Posted By: kingrob
We get it. You're a troll who doesn't like Domestic vehicles. Go find another forum.


What, is this a domestic only forum? I thought it was a forum for general automotive topics. That's what the title says anyway. I guess it must be a forum only for those who agree to get together and talk about how they completely agree on things? It's funny how my alternate view point threatens you so much. I guess I haven't drank the Ford cool-aid yet.

Those posted service histories are more like my experience with these vehicles.

My point was production is stopping because it's a product that is not a viable business. I'm sure they would open another assembly line if they were making big profits from these vehicles. Sorry I hurt feelings.


But you have no real experience with these vehicles. A buddy of yours owns one or something. We've owned two of them over the course of 500,000Km thus far.... My Townie, originally my dad's car, is coming up on 350,000Km....
 
You have to look between the lines of mrsilv04's fleet log posting of Police Crown Vic's. First of all, they are POLICE Crown Vic's. They get the dog p!ss beaten out of them on a daily basis for work they do. Curb jumping, stop and go, and high idle times. A 100K Police Crown Vic can have almost 9K-10K+ engine hours of idle time that is not really reflected on the odometer.

A lot of what mrsilv04 post is just normal wear or scheduled maintenance. Cab companies buy 100K Crown Vic's all the time and put another 100K-300K miles on them with very little maintenance.

I bought this year a PA State Police Detective's take home car with 115K on the odometer and it has been a very tight car and runs almost like new.

http://www.hendonpub.com/resources/articlearchive/details.aspx?ID=373


293404_7e76a73c-43f7-4448-868a-f5ec21ab88ca.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: Gannet167
when will the grand marquis production stop?

Not soon enough. Why aren't they being advertised? Why is it the last of the V8 Ford sedans? Simply because my grandfather isn't buying new cars anymore. It's a dying breed of outdated, antiquated technology that epitomizes a lot of what's wrong with the big 3's industry.

If there was a crazy market for this car It would be widely marketed and sold in large numbers. But it's a feet product - for police mainly. If you love the car and are apologizing for it while wondering why this 70's style vehicle is fading to black, you're in the minority of car consumers. Otherwise they'd be opening up a new factory to increase production.

There's no more Chevy Caprice, Pontiac Parisienne, Dodge Monaco, Buick Roadmaster or Studebakers being made either. The market has changed - for the better.

It's definitely a niche vehicle with a relatively small market. The same can be said for tons of other vehicles though, and the development costs on this one are paid for.

There is no other car currently available that compares. I'm not aware of any Japanese four doors that can be made very fast with bolt ons AND that are durable enough to take a serious beating. The Panther cars are very unique because they can.

Quote:

But down to the nitty gritty, I'd really love to know why a car like that is virtually ignored by Ford. No advertising, nothing, just let the car die out. Its almost as if they want to end production of a vehicle that is a money maker.

That's one of Ford's favorite things to do. Step 1: build a really excellent vehicle. Step 2: build up a very loyal following for said excellent vehicle. Step 3: kill off/ruin excellent vehicle.

Ford is currently doing this with the Panther cars and Ranger. Both have very high owner loyalty. Both have fairly good and stable sales for unadvertised, neglected models. Yet, Ford seems determined to get rid of them.

They attempted to do the same with the Taurus, until they realized nobody knew *** a Five Hundred was. Oops.

Ford has sparks of automotive genius. Examples: Panther platform, Fox platform, Mustang, Ranger, Explorer, 1997 F-150, 1986 Taurus, etc. They follow up these sparks of genius with years of complacency, stumbling around, and generally poor decision making.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: Gannet167
when will the grand marquis production stop?

Not soon enough. Why aren't they being advertised? Why is it the last of the V8 Ford sedans? Simply because my grandfather isn't buying new cars anymore. It's a dying breed of outdated, antiquated technology that epitomizes a lot of what's wrong with the big 3's industry.

If there was a crazy market for this car It would be widely marketed and sold in large numbers. But it's a feet product - for police mainly. If you love the car and are apologizing for it while wondering why this 70's style vehicle is fading to black, you're in the minority of car consumers. Otherwise they'd be opening up a new factory to increase production.

There's no more Chevy Caprice, Pontiac Parisienne, Dodge Monaco, Buick Roadmaster or Studebakers being made either. The market has changed - for the better.


I've got to disagree with you. I can't think of one package that can deliver all that the Crown Vic/Mercury Grand Marque can deliver in one package. Room, comfort, 110mph+ capability ..and, if driven sensibly, 24mph. No other package that I know of can do so ..and achieve high durability in the field ..proven over a long span of time. All cars are compromises ..but I think the CV platform sacrifices the least and delivers the most in that exchange.

While it will probably die due to lack of demand ..it won't be due to lacking ability to perform side by side with smaller and lower powered cars. 24mpg is a very respectable showing and the amount that you can achieve above it ..at the prevailing cost difference, really makes it a matter of mis-perception.



It is my opinion that stereotypes and mis-perception have hurt the panther platform sales considerably. I can certainly respect that different people have different preferences for vehicles and something like a Grand Marquis isn't for everyone; but if someone is going to badmouth a car I hope it is based on personal experience and not just a few paragraphs they read on an online forum.

Here is a summary of my experiences with the panther platform:

My first car was a 1988 Mercury Grand Marquis that I bought used for $600. It ended up being the most reliable car I ever owned, it has had three owners since I got done with it and the last I checked it was still running. Since then I have owned a few police intercepor CV's and currently a 2001 Grand Marquis. None of them owe me a dime, they were all great cars, very reliable and very affordable. It has been my experience that most people who badmouth these cars have never driven one, much less owned one. Everyone thinks they are gas guzzlers. Most don't believe me when I tell them I average 23-24 mpg commuting to work. They really give me a funny look when I tell them the "gas guzzling Merc" gets the same commuting mileage as our 2002 Accord with a 3.0 V6. One more thing...when 4 or 5 of us are going out to lunch no one complains when I offer to drive, especially when the alternative is a two door Civic.

As for the comment about no more Caprice/Roadmaster/Impalla, they weren't discontinued due to lack of sales. They were killed to provide production capacity for SUV's, which were becomming very popular and more profitable for GM.
 
I agree. The CV platform is a great car. You can fit 5 people and there luggage and drive 200+ miles very comfortably. And have the needed V8 umph to get in the passing lane!!!
 
I love my 91 Grand Marquis. It's been in the family and taken care of by me since it rolled off the dealer's lot. It still looks fairly new, and I plan on keeping it for a good while longer.

Before that we had a 80 Crown Vic.
Before that we had a 72 LTD.
Before that we had a 67 LTD.
Before that we had a 55 Ford.

Notice the trend?

Even my friends like this "old man car". You can't beat the comfort and reliability of the Panther platform. The crushed velour interior is the envy of a lot of folk!!
 
Here's another example of a random dud in my local small city PD fleet.

And as noted in the top entry, the engine has an unknown, possibly knocking noise in it... I'd say it is time to stop spending any more money on this one.

In Dec 2008, at 91,994 miles, the alternator and wiring pigtail kit were replaced. The charging system light still remains on, due to an unknown reason. There’s also some type of slight repetitive, possible knocking, noise when driving the car.

In Mar 2008, at 91,249 miles, the cylinder an ignition coil was replaced due to a miss in the #8 cylinder.

In Feb 2008, at 89,430 miles, the rear brake pads & rotors were replaced, along with the rear calipers being flushed. The right rear upper trailing link for the rear axle was replaced.

In Jan 2008, at 89,029 miles, the intake manifold, spark plugs and boots were replaced.

In Dec 2007, at 88,761 miles, the lower steering shaft and the intermediate steering shaft assembly were replaced. Also in Dec 2007, the dash lights and right headlamp were replaced.

In early Dec 2007, at 87,845 miles, the front tires and engine thermostat were replaced.

In Oct 2007, at 85,586 miles, the driver’s side headlamp was replaced.

Also in Oct 2007, at 85,328 miles, the water pump, alternator belt, power steering pump, and alternator were replaced.

In Jun 2007, at 79,078 miles, the cooling fan assembly was replaced, along with the spark plugs & boots.

In Jun 2007, at 78,674 miles, the air conditioner compressor hose assembly was replaced.

In Apr 2007, at 75,919 miles, the air conditioner compressor accumulator, orifice tube and compressor relay were replaced.

In Feb 2007, at 73,555 miles, the power mirror switch was replaced.

In Jan 2007, at 72,766 miles, the power door lock switch was replaced.

In Sep 2006, at 69,827 miles, the driver’s power window switch was replaced.

In May 2006, at 63,375 miles, both rear emergency brake cables, shoes & hold down kits were replaced.

In Mar 2006, at 59,424 miles, the cooling fan assembly, idler pulley and alternator were replaced. Also, the air conditioner relay was replaced with a used one.

In Oct 2005, at 51,434 miles, the starter was replaced.

In Jun 2005, at 43,318 miles, the vehicle was repaired at the dealership due to a recall for ball joint repairs.

In Aug 2005, at 48,236 miles, the serpentine belt was replaced due.

In Jun 2005, at 43,178 miles, the back-up light assembly was replaced.

In May 2005, at 43,081 miles, the wiper switch assembly was replaced.

In Apr 2005, at 40,318 miles, the exhaust manifold flange nut was replaced.

In Dec 2003, at 18,556 miles, the horn assembly was replaced.

In Oct 2003, at 15,144 miles, the trunk lock cylinder was repaired.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Do you have hour numbers on the "not necessarily motion related failures"?


I'm not aware of any hour documentation.

I have noticed, however, that they are going to start pulling the 2005's from service in the high 70's on miles.

Two '05's are already marked to be removed from service, one at 76,xxx and one at 79,xxx.

It's not a surprise. Look at the number and frequency of repairs beginning at roughly the 80,000 mile mark.

When they can replace these units with a new one for around $16,500 (residual value of the '05 included)... why not?

I'm amused at the number of people who think these cars are as bulletproof as an Abrams tank. I know they put up with a lot of abuse, but the problem is, they're not.
 
Depends on how you look at bulletproof. =-)

When it comes to long term ownership, replacement parts costs for a bof rwd car is pretty darn low.

Alex.
 
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04

I'm amused at the number of people who think these cars are as bulletproof as an Abrams tank. I know they put up with a lot of abuse, but the problem is, they're not.


Can you name another car currently in production that can hold up better under the same kind of use as a Crown Vic patrol car? Do you have maintenance and repair records for any unibody FWD patrol cars to post up?
 
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