when there is no vw 508…

[UG_Passat]

It really did not. VW updated certain parts, for example, PCV, add certain things to bump power, or increase economy. But the basic architecture of an engine stayed the same.
Plus, we come back to that, thick oil is not an issue generally.

The reason why VW did not introduce a new engine is a cost-benefit analysis that is driven by "diesel gate. VW switched many suppliers to save money. For example, they switched many applications from Brembo calipers to Akebono (Porsche stayed with Brembo). Their calculation is that EA888 can carry them over to the point when EV's will rule the world. They shelled out 42 billion dollars for "dieselgate" and the lack of new engines is a consequence of that. But they still have to meet CAFE, hence, 0W20, etc, etc.

Going from a gen2 to gen3 ea888 is a big change though. Block is different for better thermal management, including integrating the exhaust manifold into the block, something the gen2 ea888 doesn't do, which means the turbos are different.

Don't even think about getting a turbo from the Atlas and installing it on your Tiguan.

 

[edyvw]

Going from a gen2 to gen3 ea888 is a big change though. Block is different for better thermal management, including integrating the exhaust manifold into the block, something the gen2 ea888 doesn't do, which means the turbos are different.

Don't even think about getting a turbo from the Atlas and installing it on your Tiguan.

View attachment 173337

As I said, there are changes, but the architecture of an engine is still the same. Turbo is different also on the new Atlas, etc.
And I am not sure why you would think I would use turbo from Atlas on Tiguan. I do not drive Tundra to have those issues after 500mls.

 

[UG_Passat]

As I said, there are changes, but the architecture of an engine is still the same. Turbo is different also on the new Atlas, etc.
And I am not sure why you would think I would use turbo from Atlas on Tiguan. I do not drive Tundra to have those issues after 500mls.

yes, they are all 16V 4-bangers with turbochargers, with balanced shafts with FSI injection technology. That's pretty much all the ea888's have in common across the board. That's pretty much what's in common between the 1st gen ea888 in the Tiguan and the 3rd gen ea888 in the Atlas. But the devil is in the details.

Just wait for the IHI turbo to wear the wastegate actuator loose on the Tiguan, it's a very common problem on the gen 1 ea888 engine.

And BMW isn't immune to electronic wastegate actuator problems either

 

[wemay]

I would’ve done nothing. Added nothing. That’s in the acceptable range.

I certainly wouldn’t have criticized my son on that basis. He was operating the car in accordance with the owner‘s manual.

You’re the one with unique requirements. The one who feels your son has failed to meet your expectations for oil level.

This really isn’t about oil, is it?

This

 

[wemay]

 

[MParr]

View attachment 173341

Be prepared for incoming flack.

 

[bigjl]

No new car warranty is predicated on a particular oil grade. Grades are recommendations, not requirements. The warranty is predicated on an oil that causes damage, and no oil with a somewhat higher HT/HS will damage an engine. One with a lower HT/HS can cause damage but not the other way around.

VAG does require the correct oil to be used

That’s why the oil contains the green dye.

So they can invalidate claims relating to engine issues that could be caused by using the wrong oil.

And is why they only allow a one off top up of 1 litre per OCI of an older VAG spec.

 

[bigjl]

Ya but comparing say a stressed, high revving, V10 to that of a farm tractorish 2.0, clearly different oil specifications are going to be needed.

The design of the 2.0 has also changed over the years.

Saying a 504 would do better in the same application a 508 is called for is just conjecture.

The 1.5 TFSi engine has 150bhp in standard tune.

Hardly lacking in performance or power when you consider the size of the engine.

You did realise that VAG spec 508/509 in more than one engine?

 

[kschachn]

VAG does require the correct oil to be used

That’s why the oil contains the green dye.

So they can invalidate claims relating to engine issues that could be caused by using the wrong oil.

And is why they only allow a one off top up of 1 litre per OCI of an older VAG spec.

You keep posting this nonsense, but that doesn’t make it any more correct. The only thing VAG actually requires to preserve the new-car warranty here in the US is an oil that does not cause damage. And the green dye is there to detect the use of this lower HT/HS oil in an engine where it is not specified as an approved grade. Not the other way around, that makes zero sense and VAG has made it clear that 508 00 approval is not back specified to any of their vehicles. It is all about damage. There is nothing in 508 00 approved oil that protects the engine better nor is it better than 504 00 except lower viscosity which contributes to a marginal fuel economy increase. 508 00 is not needed, nor is it required, nor is it superior. The engine does not "need" a lower viscosity oil to operate properly in any way.

But of course we have gone over this multiple times already and yet here we are, again. Next up will likely be snippets from the owner's manual which also do not say that it is required to preserve warranty. The language in the manual is solely in there to meet the requirements of their CAFE award letter.

 

[wemay]

Be prepared for incoming flack.

Both VW Approvals, so can be compared. But thanks for the heads-up.

 

[bigjl]

You keep posting this nonsense, but that doesn’t make it any more correct. The only thing VAG actually requires to preserve the new-car warranty here in the US is an oil that does not cause damage. And the green dye is there to detect the use of this lower HT/HS oil in an engine where it is not specified as an approved grade. Not the other way around, that makes zero sense and VAG has made it clear that 508 00 approval is not back specified to any of their vehicles. It is all about damage. There is nothing in 508 00 approved oil that protects the engine better nor is it better than 504 00 except lower viscosity which contributes to a marginal fuel economy increase. 508 00 is not needed, nor is it required, nor is it superior. The engine does not "need" a lower viscosity oil to operate properly in any way.

But of course we have gone over this multiple times already and yet here we are, again. Next up will likely be snippets from the owner's manual which also do not say that it is required to preserve warranty. The language in the manual is solely in there to meet the requirements of their CAFE award letter.

You realise there are more places than the US?

And if you have an engine failure on an engine that requires 508/509 oil in the UK, I assume also the EU, and you haven’t been using 508/509 your warranty is invalid.

Because obviously you know more than VAG….

Ooopppssss, no, no you don’t.

Are you going to make anybody that follows your advise and has an engine failure whole again?

Of course you aren’t

 

[kschachn]

You realise there are more places than the US?

And if you have an engine failure on an engine that requires 508/509 oil in the UK, I assume also the EU, and you haven’t been using 508/509 your warranty is invalid.

Because obviously you know more than VAG….

Ooopppssss, no, no you don’t.

Are you going to make anybody that follows your advise and has an engine failure whole again?

Of course you aren’t

Unfortunate to be in those areas I guess. Fortunately the OP is not.

 

[DuckRyder]

You realise there are more places than the US?

And if you have an engine failure on an engine that requires 508/509 oil in the UK, I assume also the EU, and you haven’t been using 508/509 your warranty is invalid.

Because obviously you know more than VAG….

Ooopppssss, no, no you don’t.

Are you going to make anybody that follows your advise and has an engine failure whole again?

Of course you aren’t

The same is likely true in the US if they decide to make an issue of it.

He's been spouting this stuff forever and he thinks Magnusson Moss is going to protect him/folks, but reality is that if they decide to make an issue of it, their "Proof" is going to be a letter from a powertrain engineer saying something to the effect of the "incorrect oil caused X to operate outside of design parameters". Then the onus is on the owner to get his/her engineer to prove otherwise (you don't have one of those do you Jack?).

You might prevail, but why open yourself up the the hassle.

He's very caviler when it isn't his money/warranty.

 

[kschachn]

The same is likely true in the US if they decide to make an issue of it.

He's been spouting this stuff forever and he thinks Magnusson Moss is going to protect him/folks, but reality is that if they decide to make an issue of it, their "Proof" is going to be a letter from a powertrain engineer saying something to the effect of the "incorrect oil caused X to operate outside of design parameters". Then the onus is on the owner to get his/her engineer to prove otherwise (you don't have one of those do you Jack?).

You might prevail, but why open yourself up the the hassle.

He's very caviler when it isn't his money/warranty.

When my Tiguan was under warranty and was still receiving free oil changes at the dealership I asked for 504 00 oil to be used instead of 508 00. They did so without question.

No “design parameters” were violated and that’s just downright silly to suggest. Nothing but fear mongering in such a statement.

 

[DuckRyder]

When my Tiguan was under warranty and was still receiving free oil changes at the dealership I asked for 504 00 oil to be used instead of 508 00. They did so without question.

No “design parameters” were violated and that’s just downright silly to suggest. Nothing but fear mongering in such a statement.

So your case is that a dealer did it, ok cool story.

The fact remains if they decide to make an issue of you're hosed... and i'm sure your RO in that instance indicates "Customer Requested".

I don't disagree that it is somewhat unlikely for them to to make an issue of it, but then again they don't put markers in the oil because they don't care.

 

[kschachn]

I don't disagree that it is somewhat unlikely for them to to make an issue of it, but then again they don't put markers in the oil because they don't care.

They do care. What they care about is damage. And yes an oil with an HT/HS that’s too low can definitely cause damage. As VW has made clear, 508 00 approval is not back-specified to any previous approval. It may, and can, cause damage to those engines.

Not because it’s “better” somehow.

 

[edyvw]

So your case is that a dealer did it, ok cool story.

The fact remains if they decide to make an issue of you're hosed... and i'm sure your RO in that instance indicates "Customer Requested".

I don't disagree that it is somewhat unlikely for them to to make an issue of it, but then again they don't put markers in the oil because they don't care.

The thing is that most likely VW dealership used VW502.00. Maybe recently they stopped that practice, just bcs. availability, but for a long time they simply used 5W40 VW502.00 in all gas engines.

 

[DuckRyder]

They do care. What they care about is damage. And yes an oil with an HT/HS that’s too low can definitely cause damage. As VW has made clear, 508 00 approval is not back-specified to any previous approval. It may, and can, cause damage to those engines.

Err not exactly. Depending on which specific they we are talking about:

The manufacturer cares about if there is a defect in material and workmanship that falls within the terms of the warranty. And it the product was maintained within the terms of the owners requirements

The dealer cares about if the manufacturer is going to pay the bill and not charge the ticket back, and will accordingly seek pre approval - which brings us back to what the manufacturer cares about.

They (the service director) also care about their warranty expense.

The tech cares if he's getting paid warranty time or customer pay time.

NOBODY cares about the HT/HS, I'd be surprised if you get anything but blank stares at that, and you're trying to apply a technical discussion to a contract dispute.

The old PDS for Edge Professional included verbiage about UV dye tracers for warranty verification.

Not because it’s “better” somehow.

Don't try to pivot this to "better". My only problem with the whole thing is your continuous assertion that basically you can do whatever you want (ostensibly as long as it is thicker) and be totally worry free with respect to warranty.

I don't understand how you're allowed to continue to assert this when the slightest thread about legal questions or medical questions is locked, yet your essentially giving legal advice and in my view erroneous legal advice at that.

The thing is that most likely VW dealership used VW502.00. Maybe recently they stopped that practice, just bcs. availability, but for a long time they simply used 5W40 VW502.00 in all gas engines.

That may be true, though in my experience way back to TDI days it isn't, they know the requirement and will use the proper oil. If they don't it is on them as long as you didn't tell them what to do.

 

[MParr]

As long as mine is under warranty, I will use the 508.00/509.00. When the warranty is up, I will be switching to a 504.00/507.00.
Again, if it’s in the middle of the safe zone, it doesn’t need any oil added.

 

[edyvw]

Err not exactly. Depending on which specific they we are talking about:

The manufacturer cares about if there is a defect in material and workmanship that falls within the terms of the warranty. And it the product was maintained within the terms of the owners requirements

The dealer cares about if the manufacturer is going to pay the bill and not charge the ticket back, and will accordingly seek pre approval - which brings us back to what the manufacturer cares about.

They (the service director) also care about their warranty expense.

The tech cares if he's getting paid warranty time or customer pay time.

NOBODY cares about the HT/HS, I'd be surprised if you get anything but blank stares at that, and you're trying to apply a technical discussion to a contract dispute.

The old PDS for Edge Professional included verbiage about UV dye tracers for warranty verification.



Don't try to pivot this to "better". My only problem with the whole thing is your continuous assertion that basically you can do whatever you want (ostensibly as long as it is thicker) and be totally worry free with respect to warranty.

I don't understand how you're allowed to continue to assert this when the slightest thread about legal questions or medical questions is locked, yet your essentially giving legal advice and in my view erroneous legal advice at that.



That may be true, though in my experience way back to TDI days it isn't, they know the requirement and will use the proper oil. If they don't it is on them as long as you didn't tell them what to do.

Your comment about HTHS. Literally all Euro approvals are based on HTHS requirements. In dealership they will stare blank at you, and not only about that, but HTHS is everything.

Also, you are giving too much credit to VW. Let’s not forget that besides “Castrol 5W40 goes into everything,” this is the company that in some vehicles recommended VW502.00 in manual, and VW504.00/507.00 under the hood with 0W30 grade choice (which per VW is irrelevant whether it is 0W30 or 5W30) and on cap had 5W40 notice.