I've noticed that wherever oil is talked about you'll find a good percentage of Amsoil freaks. BITOG is no exception. Pablo of course does an admirable job supporting the product he sells, and there are lots of posters who seem very dedicated to the stuff.
So my question is, quite simply, what is it about Amsoil that generates this level of loyalty? Or more to the point, what objective performance related superiority can be demonstrated for Amsoil above other good synthetics?
Seems Amsoil makes mostly Group IV oils but also has some Group III or GrpIII/GrpIV products? I see a clear advantage for Redline, if you want to find the "best" oil, as everybody seems to agree that the Group V base stocks are exceptional especially when it comes to cleanliness. Also whenever I read a Redline UOA I'm impressed by what looks like a very beefy mass of additives.
Not the case when I look at Amsoil UOAs, and it seems to me the UOAs themselves don't come out particularly great on average.
Also again there are lots of good synth oils with good add packs, much more available than Amsoil.
So what is it about Amsoil? Is there some secret advantage I haven't come across? Am I missing something? Or is it just a good all-around package that just seems to work well for those who use it?
- Glenn
What's so great about Amsoil?
- Thread starter glennc
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Glenn;
To be honest with you, I think the thing that people like about Amsoil is that you can buy into it as a package deal, a higher-quality automotive way of life...Oil, oil filters, air filters, coolant, tons of other stuff. Net result is (supposedly) a better-performing, longer lasting, more environmentally responsible automobile - at a net cost savings to boot. Something we can all agree is a good thing.
Obviously, people disagree on the extent to which Amsoil delivers on this marketing vision, but I think this is what people like about it. ANY reasonable maintenance routine will get you there, but Amsoil makes people feel like they are taking it to the next level (which they may very well be...who knows). Part of something bigger.
Why else would people get so fired up about it (both PRO and CON)?
My opinion of Amsoil is conflicted. Pablo, Slick, and Michael understand where this is coming from.
I sold Amsoil when I still had a active auto/diesel repair business. In the late 70's and early 80's I used Amsoil to solve engine problems/weakness's that poorly formulated off the shelf oils offered to the newly emissions controlled engines.
I was not comfortable with the Amsoil marketing system as a businessman.
The Amsoil lube chemistries are generally superior and must be to continue to be sold in the MLM system. Anyone who chooses to use Amsoil from a purely technical point of view is doing a good thing for their car.
The Amsoil dealers on this board are like all the site supporters , motivated to do the right thing because they care.
Support them with confidence.
Terry
I always thought Amsoil got base oils from other producers like Mobil? I thought I read it was predominately Mobil oil inside those Amsoil jugs.
How wrong am I?
Theoretically, Amsoil is less bound by the additive related constraints of price and API / ILSAC certification, which allows them to formulate the best oil (using the best avail stocks & additives), period...say compared to the API approved Mobil 1.
Given 3MP's peformance comparison, while not a scientifically valid experiment by any stretch, I'm not sure that there really is much of a gap between Amsoil's and Mobil's top products. The base oils are probably very similar if not the same.
So, in my mind again it goes back to the fact that Amsoil was the first to consistently pursue extended drains, and among the first to pursue creation of the best oil possible. That's what makes them special.
All of the above are my opinion, which I may or may not be qualified to give ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif)
Where to begin?
Pretty much anything I type will sound like a sales pitch, so I'll go light.
How about, Amsoil isn't that great, but I saved a bunch of money on my car insurance!?
Maybe not.
I want to talk about Amsoil and not degrade into the continual "stupidity of specsmanship" and "I am a warranty lawyer". If you want to read this crap, search around, it's gone stale.
Seriously - I like Amsoil as a company more than ever the 6 months or so. In fact it looks like I will like Amsoil even more when hard headed Al either gives over the reins to Al Jr. or, well, er, dies. I mean he did call Mobil 1 "panther pi$$". But worse his stubbornness comes off as ignorance more often than not. The moly statements, the refusal to do things about real weaknesses. I must credit Al with making a GREAT company with excellent growth and sales. The problem as a small company - right when they can and should put the huge flexibility advantage to work - the roots go down and Al says; "Nope - no need to change" I am, of course, referring to the demand for better oils and the competition coming up very fast. I mean they don't need an oil designed just for sludge engines, but many engines are much more demanding, API has driven the previously borderline oils up to nearly competitive status.
Bottom line - Amsoil set the pace for extended OCI's - better or worse.
On paper, is Amsoil better? Yes vs some oils. No vs some oils. But as we know the real world is not paper. Is this the way to compare two oils? Lots of people hold Mo and POE over all else - nothing wrong with those things - but often they have not really shown they live up to the high dollar paid expectation. We've all turned into oil formulation chemists - shopping ingredients to try to brew the best oil on paper. Tricky at best to pick an oil on paper only.
Redline UOA's have not been stellar, nor have Amsoil's. Can you use this to compare oils? I say carefully at best. The average BiTOG desk jockey oil analyst does a urine poor job at reading between the lines, let alone what is presented front and center. I also think their are way too many changeable attributes when someone drives 10K-20K miles, to compare two oils in two totally different climates, let alone two different car manufacturers and two different engines. I really don't think you can look at 10, 20 or 30 UOA's - sorta squint fuzzily and say that you know a lot about an oil. It's an easy trap to fall into and I do it with the best of them. Carefully use UOA's to compare oil - most of what is taken as fact is really very fuzzy.
Let's talk some positives:
I really like the fact that the basestocks for the top 3 have been altered to not only lower the initial viscosity - but to cut back on the thinning with a more "solvent" base. (no there is no solvent added to ASL, ATM, S2K) I am excited and want to see how this oil does in the viscosity department.
New products this last year - wow Al Jr - keep them coming.
I love the new 5W-40. Not pushed as a super long OCI oil - it seems to do better than it's 3 sisters in cars that like a 40.
The stinking amazing XL series. Yes, group III. Yes expensive. But wow so far, so good. I would not hesitate to put this in my new car.
The new gear oils are doing great.
I also can't wait until the filter hype thing dies down - glad it's over for now. It seems like it takes too much focus away from the core oils. But when it does die down - then back to motor oil.
Amsoil is not just repackaged M1. Sure some of the raw base PAO's come from EM. But Amsoil buys base oils elsewhere as well and has their own formulated additive packages. M1 makes some competitive products, some are more expensive than Amsoil, too.
Oh yeah, one more thing - there are no miracle oils or additives. Just guys that post a lot.
All the premium oil companies seem to look at oils a bit differently. With some oils it is easy to see what they are doing. Redline dumps in tons of moly, zinc and calcium. Mola talks about different "types" of additives of Moly, and different types of boron additives. We cant tell what types of moly is put into any oil. All we can see is the concentration on the VOA. It is hard to know what is great about any oil. People seem to trust that Amsoil is trying to make a really good product.
Great post Pablo. Should be said that even though Amsoil does
get some base stock PAO from Mobil the finished products are
not at all the same. Kind of like baking contest. most get the flour at the same store but the finished pastries are quite different.
Go AJ Jr.!!!
Craig Lewis
Amsoil dealer since 1992
Michigan
I believe there is a bit of psycology too. some folks like paying a bit (or alot) extra for premium anything therefore get warm fuzzys from getting the "best". amsoil is at a pricepoint where it is a premium price but not out of sight. it's also harder to get, you need a "hookup" (dealer) to get some so it makes it slightly elusive. many folks strive for the "best" no matter what the level is, there are many here that are searching for the holy grail of $0.98 a quart oils only found at wal-mart. it's just what they are into, same oily mindset, different economy.
I like the fact that amsoil sells only premium products but hammers the idea that you need to buy less of their products (i.e. 20k oil changes).
Tom Slick;
I agree with you, and I think that the 'best no matter what' kind of logic applies to me, for cars at least. I buy generic food etc. most of the time though, go figure.
Now if only there would be some 'elven' connection we'd be all set.
I really like Amsoil products. The only problem I had when I gave it, its first and only try was in my 1998 S-10 with a 2.2 engine. I used the 0w-30 Amsoil. When I started the truck up the oil pressure would max out at 60 psi and stay there for ever until the oil warmed up and flowed easier. Experienced this in the cold of winter and heat of summer. Went back to regular conventional oil and the problem went away. Truck really seemed to start harder with the Amsoil also. Why would this happen?
Other products much more available than Amsoil? I go to the website, I select my products, and they're delivered to my door in a couple of days. No waiting in line at W-Mart with the rest of the sheep.
With my preferred customer discount it's close to the price of M1 in auto or discount stores (even factoring in shipping). Much less expensive than some other synthetic oils, and I don't have to hassle with getting there and the store being out.
My UOA's have been excellent with Amsoil in both a brand new engine and one with 130K on it, and while the UOA's don't tell the entire story, they are a reasonable benchmark (in my opinion) of how an oil is doing.
I also don't have to worry if I decide it's too cold to work in the shop and wait to change the oil-I'll just leave it in a couple more weeks with no problems.
Amsoil does have a select slice of the market with a product that's no better or worse than many others, so it's proof that their marketing model works. And it puts dealers in business that would possibley never sell oil products, otherwise. And as far as produt knowledge, the salesman at the local parts store does not know much about oil, either. The Amsoil dealers on this web site, the sponsoring dealers are usually the exception and so Amsoil puts its best foot forward on this site. And, like others have said, probably every other poster is an Amsoil dealer. The only piece to the puzzle that I'd like to see are some lab tests that directly compare Amsoil with others, I mean, besides the 4-ball wear test. So, to answer the original question, "What's so great about Amsoil", I don't know. Unless Amsoil comes up with something more, they have found their market and are staying put.
I am a dealer as well.
I think that Amsoil is going in the right direction.
The thing is Amsoil shows testing on more than just the 4 ball wear test.
You just have to find it. I keep hearing the four ball wear test is the only test they do.
Yawn......... will that never go away!
Agreed Oilboy. I kind of wonder where the test data is from ELF, Castrol, Mobil, etc.....
The fact that Amsoil has great priced synthetic 15W-40 escapes a lot of people, the 5W-40 is such a great oil, the XL line is killer.....still we get comments like; "no better or worse than many others"
i dont like the relatively sneaky advertising that amsoil has. the "recomended for xxx app" or "meets the requirements of xxx".
they should put a big disclaimer right on the bottles, like bardahl does.
i was in walmart today looking at some honda power steering fluid made by bardahl. right on the bottle in fairly large letters it says "this product is not certified or tested by honda but has been formulated to meet the requirements of hondas power steering system" or somthing very close to that effect. the bottle basically stated that it isnt guarinteed by honda. it isnt certified by honda either, but it should work alright as a substitute.
is amsoil would do this with their oils, i wouldnt really have a problem with it, but amsoil almost seems like they are trying to pass off the fact that they hardly have any approved and certified oils. amsoil oils are recomended by amsoil for alot of different specs and amsoil claims they meet even more specs, but only a few of their oils are actually tested by the governing bodys responsible for their respective certifications.
amsoil seems like they make great oils, which is imo, the only reason they or any other oil company for that matter are still in buisness. lets face it amsoil isnt staying in buisness selling vitamins. its the great oil they make and sell to their gracious customers.
but alot of people, my self included, wont use an oil that is not tested and certified for the praticular application for which it is going to be used in. so i look at amsoils list of oils which are actually api certified, and a quart costs $5.20. i think to myself, its probably a really good oil, but i can get german castrol for 3.99 and not have to pay shipping fees.
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