What Would You Use?

[Silverback]

Car- 80's Trans Am, sort of race car which gets used on the street a lot (most racing is drag racing with some autox/road course). A lot of >20 minute trips a couple times a week on the street, longest normal drive is 30-40min to the track. It does not see enough street miles to make any regular interval oil change, sort of gets changed whenever i do something that could contaminate the oil or once a season when I'm paying attention.

Engine- bottom end, 80's small block chevy, stock, top end modified later LT1 heads, victor jr intake modified for fuel injection, cam... all wanting to breath to 7000rpm (I know that bottom end won't want to hold together at that rpm for long). Manufacturer recommended 3w30

Currently running some well used 5w30 (some mix of whatever was in the garage, some mobile 1 and random conventional, it sees just over 35psi oil pressure on startup at idle, just under 25 warm idle (160-170* coolant temp, about 800rpm). I've never seen it climb over the 40's (though I don't watch the oil pressure on a dragstrip pass)

Wondering from the perspective of running as fast as possible (worried about pumping losses) but would like to keep things happy as long as possible. Not likely to spend $$$ on something harder to find.

I'm wondering what you would suggest, both weight (stick with the 5w-30? Old school racers tend to lean go heavier, you want more pressure, not sure I will gain any real protection from it) and brand/line?

 

[Silverback]

Oh, I'm in the DC Metro Area, so temps get down to about 0*F once or twice a year, and typically as high as about 100*F in the summer. It does get driven across that range (we really don't get much snow that will totally leave the car parked)

 

[bullwinkle]

Oil pressure & temperature gauges would be a good idea, think I would run a 10W30 HDEO in it, like Rotella T5 or Mystik JT-8, & see how the oil behaves at the track. You might be surprised at what the bottom end can handle, I've seen unmodified SBs go higher RPM than that (not recently, though).

 

[Jetronic]

An A3/B4 oil

 

[yvon_la]

Not a flat plane crank I assume?it says potato when idling?just Learn a bit about electrostatic paint and basically do the reverse (polarity wise)and you should befine

 

[FCD]

Rotella 5w40

 

[Nitronoise]

Welcome To BITOG

I would like to Suggest rotella T-6 5W 40

1st I am assuming the unit is parked during the winter ?

Rotella has Lots of zinc, very good for older flat tappet motors , and very durable oil for your use.

I use it in an older jeep 318 and my kid cant kill it when out 4 wheeling with his buddies

 

[GumbyJarvis]

Awaiting the "Napa Synthetic for 2.99$ its like Valvoline but different but the same!"
or the "DELO!!!!!11!!1! 15w30!!" crowd.

Id run Defy 10w30 or 10w40 in it.
5w30/5w40 in the wintertime.

Cant go wrong with T5 or T6 in it either!

 

[Taildragger]

Originally Posted By: yvon_la
Not a flat plane crank I assume?it says potato when idling?just Learn a bit about electrostatic paint and basically do the reverse (polarity wise)and you should befine


That make lots of sense!

 

[Gene K]

Valvoline VR1 10W30

 

[BrocLuno]

+1, or even a tad heavier... VR-1 is the go-to oil engines that get beat on a lot, but don't need Redline...

Does it have OEM valve springs, like even Z-28 springs? Does it have any model OEM cam? If so on these, you are likely good to go w/o getting to exotic on oil

If it has aftermarket cam and high rate valve springs, you do need to get more aggressive with oil choice.

Nowadays, ZDDP is not the absolute answer for anti-wear. It's still there, but the oil companies have developed other chemistries that compliment it so they can run less and keep things alive.

Just so you know how they build oils; they start with a base stock that equals the winter temp requirements. So for 0*F it might be a 20W for a little margin for one or two sub-zero days. Then they use long chain polymer additive(s) to get the operating temp "Grade" they want - say 40. Those long chain polymers are not oil. They mix with the oil, but they actually displace a fair percentage of the oil, the actual lubricant, maybe 18% ...

And they shear down as the engine beats on them. So all said and done, when you look at an oil, under worst case (w/o fuel dilution) if the oil is all sheared down (beat up) and heated and what not, it will come down to the winter grade base oil. If it was a 10W-30, it would drop (worst case) to a 10 grade oil. Is that what you want in a run-hard SBC? I wouldn't...

Read through this spec sheet: https://jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/document/english/pmac/5565_fb_Plus5015W40_0W40.htm

Read through this oil intro: http://fleetowner.com/equipment/chevron-introduces-new-15w-30-engine-oil-blend

Both are rated for full mixed fleet use (gas & diesel) and both are seriously tough oils. They take different approaches to get there. Chevron has pulled some of the long chain polymers out (narrowed the viscosity range) and relied heavily on their Iso-Syn technology (almost synthetic

) which has been very effective. JD has had their oil made from full syn technology as far as I can find out. I'm still investigating the latter ...

So in the VR-1 price range, you have some choices. I'd lean heavily in the direction of a stout HDEO. And because it never gets that many total hours or miles between changes, just use premium dino oil like the Chevron product. I have been putting Delo400 in hott'd up motors for at least 20 years. Never lost one to an oil failure yet. Have pitched rods, but that was always bolt failure, never a spun bearing

You might want to read this thread too: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4096620/1 I would not hesitate to run a stout oil that has been mentioned in that thread - mono, dual rated (viscosity) synthetic, or narrow multi

 

[andyd]

You could run 20w 50 yr round, in DC

 

[yvon_la]

He race lol. You can't race alone
So someone around him will fill the blank.basicly you don't want your engine to become a powder coated part (via exhaust trash)so by making sure your engine transmission are properly prepared you car mechanical won't become grim oily magnet inside

 

[Silverback]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Oil pressure & temperature gauges would be a good idea, think I would run a 10W30 HDEO in it, like Rotella T5 or Mystik JT-8, & see how the oil behaves at the track. You might be surprised at what the bottom end can handle, I've seen unmodified SBs go higher RPM than that (not recently, though).


I have pressure and temp gauges, I gave that info in the original post.

I've been shifting it between 6 and 7000rpm since I got the new top end together and it hasn't gone boom yet

 

[Silverback]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
An A3/B4 oil


Huh, what's a a3/b4 oil?

Originally Posted By: yvon_la
Not a flat plane crank I assume?it says potato when idling?just Learn a bit about electrostatic paint and basically do the reverse (polarity wise)and you should befine


What HUH???

not flat plane, I've seen it tried on a v8...

Originally Posted By: Nitronoise
Welcome To BITOG

Thanks!

But I'm not new here, I've been a member for literally years and years, just lurking... I pay way too much attention to way to many "places" on the net...

Quote:
I would like to Suggest rotella T-6 5W 40


Looks like I'm getting a lot of that here ;-)

Quote:

1st I am assuming the unit is parked during the winter ?


No, it gets driven, just not with snow/salt on the road, and with the 9" and detroit locker in the rear not often in the rain. There are some startup videos at 0*F out there testing the ECM tune.

Quote:
Rotella has Lots of zinc, very good for older flat tappet motors , and very durable oil for your use.

I use it in an older jeep 318 and my kid cant kill it when out 4 wheeling with his buddies


The original engine has a roller, so is the aftermarket cam

Originally Posted By: GumbyJarvis
Awaiting the "Napa Synthetic for 2.99$ its like Valvoline but different but the same!"


I saw that thread and was there earlier... it wasn't $2.99, their stuff wasn't on sale at all, and valvoline was on sale for $4.xx/quart

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
+1, or even a tad heavier... VR-1 is the go-to oil engines that get beat on a lot, but don't need Redline...

Does it have OEM valve springs, like even Z-28 springs? Does it have any model OEM cam? If so on these, you are likely good to go w/o getting to exotic on oil

If it has aftermarket cam and high rate valve springs, you do need to get more aggressive with oil choice.


Custom aftermarket cam that I came up with with a Comp Cams engineer, using solid roller lobes and short travel hydraulic lifters on a billet LS style cam blank with lunati timing bits pressed onto it. The valve springs are some PAC beehive style springs. I have VERY short duration (218* @ .050") and am right at .600" lift.

Probably the scariest part of the build

Quote:

Just so you know how they build oils; they start with a base stock that equals the winter temp requirements. So for 0*F it might be a 20W for a little margin for one or two sub-zero days. Then they use long chain polymer additive(s) to get the operating temp "Grade" they want - say 40. Those long chain polymers are not oil. They mix with the oil, but they actually displace a fair percentage of the oil, the actual lubricant, maybe 18% ...

And they shear down as the engine beats on them. So all said and done, when you look at an oil, under worst case (w/o fuel dilution) if the oil is all sheared down (beat up) and heated and what not, it will come down to the winter grade base oil. If it was a 10W-30, it would drop (worst case) to a 10 grade oil. Is that what you want in a run-hard SBC? I wouldn't...


Right, if you want to tinker with that that is what STP oil additive is basically. I'm very familiar with the technology, I'm just not a oil geek and up on everything in the market right now... though honestly what's been mentioned so far hasn't been anything that hasn't been around for years now.

Quote:

So in the VR-1 price range, you have some choices. I'd lean heavily in the direction of a stout HDEO. And because it never gets that many total hours or miles between changes, just use premium dino oil like the Chevron product. I have been putting Delo400 in hott'd up motors for at least 20 years. Never lost one to an oil failure yet. Have pitched rods, but that was always bolt failure, never a spun bearing

You might want to read this thread too: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4096620/1 I would not hesitate to run a stout oil that has been mentioned in that thread - mono, dual rated (viscosity) synthetic, or narrow multi

I'll read through the 3 links in a bit.

Funny, when I was at NAPA earlier I had a gallon of Delo and and some T6 (5w-40) in my hands debating what I was going to get and decided to put both down and see what you guys recommended ;-)

 

[Silverback]

To be honest, based on the current recommendations I'm tempted to use what I have in the garage for this oil change.

I have almost 2 quarts of VR-1 in 20W-50, a couple of quarts of mobil 1 in 10w-30 and if I don't have 5 quarts I have some rotella left over from changing the oil in my cummins... That looks like it would hit pretty well in the middle of the recommendations (I'm pretty sure someone is cringing at my home brew synth blend right now)

 

[Silverback]

So I'm also curious, do you guys feel my current oil pressure is sufficient to protect the engine to 7000rpm, with 30 weight (5w30), or do you guys feel that I need more pressure for a traditional V8 with newer oils?

Seems like the recommendations that I currently have go half some 30weight (though most are 10w-30 which ends up being a heavier base stock), half 40 weight (though mostly 5W-40 which is a lighter base stock than most of the 30weight recommendations) and then one 20w-50 which is what most of the hotrodders (the forums I usually hang out on) recommend (which I honestly feel would slow me down, mess with starting in the cold (I'm running a geared ministarter and 12# lightweight mini battery)

 

[BrocLuno]

OK, but the Delo I linked to is new and is not in wide distribution right now. It is stouter narrower viscosity range.

But with your cam/spring info, I'd just go VR-1 and be done with it.

I'm OK with your oil pressure. It's enough to get it everywhere in the motor and that's what counts

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Silverback
To be honest, based on the current recommendations I'm tempted to use what I have in the garage for this oil change.

I have almost 2 quarts of VR-1 in 20W-50, a couple of quarts of mobil 1 in 10w-30 and if I don't have 5 quarts I have some rotella left over from changing the oil in my cummins... That looks like it would hit pretty well in the middle of the recommendations (I'm pretty sure someone is cringing at my home brew synth blend right now)


Keep it simple. Use the same Rotella you use in your diesel.

 

[Silverback]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
OK, but the Delo I linked to is new and is not in wide distribution right now. It is stouter narrower viscosity range.

But with your cam/spring info, I'd just go VR-1 and be done with it.

I'm OK with your oil pressure. It's enough to get it everywhere in the motor and that's what counts

yea, I haven't seen that the 15w-30 Delo before...

"just go with the VR-1..." which weight?

I have a bunch of 20w-50 sitting around (before I did the top end swap this engine smoked badly and used a ton of oil, and I tried slowing that down with some heavier oil, it turned out that it was the valve stems in the original heads were so wiped out that it was acting like all sorts of things were wrong with it that weren't. With the new top end on it that went away entirely), and in "performance" circles when someone says "use VR-1" that means use VR-1 20W-50.

I'm guessing that since you said you're cool with my current oil pressure you mean a similar weight VR-1, since what's in there is some worn out 5w-30 (could be anything, I have a tendency to just grab whatever I have left over and throw it in engines that I don't care about, but since the top end swap made it happy I care about it again). The closest VR-1 that I see is 10w-30, and I read your linked thread about straight 30 before I posted this, so I know that you're on a 30 weight kick.