I left #1 vague enough to include your #5, but if you see #1 as looking only at the US economy, then I understand why you felt compelled to add #5.
What will gas top out at this year?
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Originally Posted By: javacontour
Exactly, I've met "they" and we are "they"
but one can see it's not some tin-foil hat conspiracy. It's the market.
Sales on Tin-foil hats are starting to go up through the roof now that gas is over 3 bucks. I'm buying Aluminum commodity
Exactly, I've met "they" and we are "they"
Sales on Tin-foil hats are starting to go up through the roof now that gas is over 3 bucks. I'm buying Aluminum commodity
Good idea, add aluminum to a portfolio that already has energy stocks.
If one really thinks the oil companies are getting rich, there is nothing to prevent one from benefiting by owning some stock in those companies.
If one really thinks the oil companies are getting rich, there is nothing to prevent one from benefiting by owning some stock in those companies.
Originally Posted By: javacontour
Good idea, add aluminum to a portfolio that already has energy stocks.
If one really thinks the oil companies are getting rich, there is nothing to prevent one from benefiting by owning some stock in those companies.
But how many shares of oil stocks would a person need to hedge against their raising living expenses caused by oil price increases (which increases the price of everything not just oil and gas) let alone to actually come out ahead? Some people have no extra money to invest in oil company stock. It's the little guy who can least afford it that is getting burnt.
I don't care what anyone says consumer demand for oil is pretty inelastic. The demand is known without treating it as a commodity and speculators.The markets are not perfect and not above manipulation. The price of oil has gone up when the dollar is stable, when supplies are high and when all of the usual suspects profered for why oil prices should rise were not present. I'd wager that whatever the fair market price of oil is, manipulation adds at least a $1/gal. Seems there are a lot of people nowadays who will rationalizing gouging and ripping off into doing you a favor.
Good idea, add aluminum to a portfolio that already has energy stocks.
If one really thinks the oil companies are getting rich, there is nothing to prevent one from benefiting by owning some stock in those companies.
But how many shares of oil stocks would a person need to hedge against their raising living expenses caused by oil price increases (which increases the price of everything not just oil and gas) let alone to actually come out ahead? Some people have no extra money to invest in oil company stock. It's the little guy who can least afford it that is getting burnt.
I don't care what anyone says consumer demand for oil is pretty inelastic. The demand is known without treating it as a commodity and speculators.The markets are not perfect and not above manipulation. The price of oil has gone up when the dollar is stable, when supplies are high and when all of the usual suspects profered for why oil prices should rise were not present. I'd wager that whatever the fair market price of oil is, manipulation adds at least a $1/gal. Seems there are a lot of people nowadays who will rationalizing gouging and ripping off into doing you a favor.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
But how many shares of oil stocks would a person need to hedge against their raising living expenses caused by oil price increases (which increases the price of everything not just oil and gas) let alone to actually come out ahead? Some people have no extra money to invest in oil company stock. It's the little guy who can least afford it that is getting burnt.
Yet these same "little guy) that has money to pay for $5 gas in his gas guzzler can not put that into an ETF Oil and Gasoline stocks to keep his costs flat??
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't care what anyone says consumer demand for oil is pretty inelastic. The demand is known without treating it as a commodity and speculators.The markets are not perfect and not above manipulation. The price of oil has gone up when the dollar is stable, when supplies are high and when all of the usual suspects profered for why oil prices should rise were not present.
The stock market goes up and down without any reason. You can call that manipulation I suppose. Again the price of Oil, Gasoline, Natural Gas, etc varies bc they are traded commodities. The price may or may not be priced with respect to current demand..but as perceived demand. These commodities are traded world wide. The price varies throughout the day according to the Spot Market.. So you can call the system anything you want. But the fact is that the "Market" controls the price.
Funny how many trumpet the Free Market..except when it impacts them negatively.
And gone are the days when the U.S. can control prices..we can't...well we can by using more than our system can afford. Buy smaller cars, use less, buy ETF's...lots of choices.
But how many shares of oil stocks would a person need to hedge against their raising living expenses caused by oil price increases (which increases the price of everything not just oil and gas) let alone to actually come out ahead? Some people have no extra money to invest in oil company stock. It's the little guy who can least afford it that is getting burnt.
Yet these same "little guy) that has money to pay for $5 gas in his gas guzzler can not put that into an ETF Oil and Gasoline stocks to keep his costs flat??
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't care what anyone says consumer demand for oil is pretty inelastic. The demand is known without treating it as a commodity and speculators.The markets are not perfect and not above manipulation. The price of oil has gone up when the dollar is stable, when supplies are high and when all of the usual suspects profered for why oil prices should rise were not present.
The stock market goes up and down without any reason. You can call that manipulation I suppose. Again the price of Oil, Gasoline, Natural Gas, etc varies bc they are traded commodities. The price may or may not be priced with respect to current demand..but as perceived demand. These commodities are traded world wide. The price varies throughout the day according to the Spot Market.. So you can call the system anything you want. But the fact is that the "Market" controls the price.
Funny how many trumpet the Free Market..except when it impacts them negatively.
And gone are the days when the U.S. can control prices..we can't...well we can by using more than our system can afford. Buy smaller cars, use less, buy ETF's...lots of choices.
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Originally Posted By: Al
Quote:
But how many shares of oil stocks would a person need to hedge against their raising living expenses caused by oil price increases (which increases the price of everything not just oil and gas) let alone to actually come out ahead? Some people have no extra money to invest in oil company stock. It's the little guy who can least afford it that is getting burnt.
Yet these same "little guy) that has money to pay for $5 gas in his gas guzzler can not put that into an ETF Oil and Gasoline stocks to keep his costs flat??
You assume the little guy has a gas guzzler but maybe he drives a 10+ year old Cavalier or other econo car. Besides after he buys his gas who's to say he has any money to buy enough stocks to hedge his expenses?
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't care what anyone says consumer demand for oil is pretty inelastic. The demand is known without treating it as a commodity and speculators.The markets are not perfect and not above manipulation. The price of oil has gone up when the dollar is stable, when supplies are high and when all of the usual suspects profered for why oil prices should rise were not present.
The stock market goes up and down without any reason. You can call that manipulation I suppose. Again the price of Oil, Gasoline, Natural Gas, etc varies bc they are traded commodities. The price may or may not be priced with respect to current demand..but as perceived demand. These commodities are traded world wide. The price varies throughout the day according to the Spot Market.. So you can call the system anything you want. But the fact is that the "Market" controls the price.
Funny how many trumpet the Free Market..except when it impacts them negatively.
And gone are the days when the U.S. can control prices..we can't...well we can by using more than our system can afford. Buy smaller cars, use less, buy ETF's...lots of choices.
The markets intentionally creates bubbles all the time. The high finance people set all the rules and monetary policy and they're not in the small investors' favor. I don't believe it is simply a free and fair market that can't be manipulated and I'm not the only one who doesn't. We could all drive small cars and lower demand but I don't think it will have any effect on price.
Quote:
But how many shares of oil stocks would a person need to hedge against their raising living expenses caused by oil price increases (which increases the price of everything not just oil and gas) let alone to actually come out ahead? Some people have no extra money to invest in oil company stock. It's the little guy who can least afford it that is getting burnt.
Yet these same "little guy) that has money to pay for $5 gas in his gas guzzler can not put that into an ETF Oil and Gasoline stocks to keep his costs flat??
You assume the little guy has a gas guzzler but maybe he drives a 10+ year old Cavalier or other econo car. Besides after he buys his gas who's to say he has any money to buy enough stocks to hedge his expenses?
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't care what anyone says consumer demand for oil is pretty inelastic. The demand is known without treating it as a commodity and speculators.The markets are not perfect and not above manipulation. The price of oil has gone up when the dollar is stable, when supplies are high and when all of the usual suspects profered for why oil prices should rise were not present.
The stock market goes up and down without any reason. You can call that manipulation I suppose. Again the price of Oil, Gasoline, Natural Gas, etc varies bc they are traded commodities. The price may or may not be priced with respect to current demand..but as perceived demand. These commodities are traded world wide. The price varies throughout the day according to the Spot Market.. So you can call the system anything you want. But the fact is that the "Market" controls the price.
Funny how many trumpet the Free Market..except when it impacts them negatively.
And gone are the days when the U.S. can control prices..we can't...well we can by using more than our system can afford. Buy smaller cars, use less, buy ETF's...lots of choices.
The markets intentionally creates bubbles all the time. The high finance people set all the rules and monetary policy and they're not in the small investors' favor. I don't believe it is simply a free and fair market that can't be manipulated and I'm not the only one who doesn't. We could all drive small cars and lower demand but I don't think it will have any effect on price.
My gut feeling tells me that it may hit $4 this year if US dollar devalue more compare to other currency (or if Chinese Yuan finally stop pegging against the dropping USD and settle at a fair value). If economy picks up big time or Euro clean up its problem, I'd expect it to hit $5.
Originally Posted By: Papa Bear
Some say $20 a gallon. ...
Lol $20 a gallon.. i think we'll have bigger problems to worry about other than gas when that happens. Think martial law.
I predict $3.50 - $4.00 It actually went back down here to $3.09
Some say $20 a gallon. ...
Lol $20 a gallon.. i think we'll have bigger problems to worry about other than gas when that happens. Think martial law.
I predict $3.50 - $4.00 It actually went back down here to $3.09
The crude oil rally sort of adjusted itself today, if you guys were watching...it was hovering and building to around $91-$92 barrel the past week, and when I checked last it was down to $89 a barrel today. Hopefully that is a trend, and the rally has lost steam.
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Peering with one eye open into my 2011 crystal ball, I see...
$3.8499 regional market peak average price per gallon (think HI, NY, CA)
$3.3999 per gallon, peak national average.
Even if many believe the markets are manipulated, I'll take the 'free market' over state control any day of the week. Anyone ever see pictures of grocery stores in the late, great U.S.S.R? Expensive gas, in my mind, is a better alternative than no gas at all.
$3.8499 regional market peak average price per gallon (think HI, NY, CA)
$3.3999 per gallon, peak national average.
Even if many believe the markets are manipulated, I'll take the 'free market' over state control any day of the week. Anyone ever see pictures of grocery stores in the late, great U.S.S.R? Expensive gas, in my mind, is a better alternative than no gas at all.
Originally Posted By: [email protected]
The crude oil rally sort of adjusted itself today, if you guys were watching...it was hovering and building to around $91-$92 barrel the past week, and when I checked last it was down to $89 a barrel today. Hopefully that is a trend, and the rally has lost steam.
Not really..Brent is down 2 bucks or less ($93.36) and West Texas $89.26.
The crude oil rally sort of adjusted itself today, if you guys were watching...it was hovering and building to around $91-$92 barrel the past week, and when I checked last it was down to $89 a barrel today. Hopefully that is a trend, and the rally has lost steam.
Not really..Brent is down 2 bucks or less ($93.36) and West Texas $89.26.
They did this before,and they learned it wasnt the thing to do,and if they do it again,the economy as we know it will crumble again,watch,wait.
Originally Posted By: Al
Yet these same "little guy) that has money to pay for $5 gas in his gas guzzler can not put that into an ETF Oil and Gasoline stocks to keep his costs flat??
Might be some super duper advanced theoretical stuff unavailable to lesser cultures, but could you explain that last bit ?
I'm interested.
Yet these same "little guy) that has money to pay for $5 gas in his gas guzzler can not put that into an ETF Oil and Gasoline stocks to keep his costs flat??
Might be some super duper advanced theoretical stuff unavailable to lesser cultures, but could you explain that last bit ?
I'm interested.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Al
Yet these same "little guy) that has money to pay for $5 gas in his gas guzzler can not put that into an ETF Oil and Gasoline stocks to keep his costs flat??
Might be some super duper advanced theoretical stuff unavailable to lesser cultures, but could you explain that last bit ?
I'm interested.
ETF's are Exchange Traded Funds. These "Funds" act like a regular old stock. You buy and sell it just like a stock. Instead of that stock being a company it is made up of "Futures" of a specific Commodity or even a bunch of commodities.
For instance UGA mirrors the latest spot market price for gasoline. If the "Spot" price goes up 1% UGA goes up 1%.
So If you buy a bunch of UGA at todays price and Gasoline goes up (and you pay more at the pump) the dollars in your ETF fund goes up and you have effectively offset the price of the gasoline increase.
In practice it gets a bit tricky bc you would have to constantly sell the ETF to be assured of balancing everything out. But for the long haul with rising gasoline prices it makes some sense.
Farmers do it all the time to insure against crop failure.
Now if you are the conspiracy theorist type you will somehow believe that "They" will somehow conspire to make you lose money with both buying gasoline for your car and holding the ETF.
Originally Posted By: Al
Yet these same "little guy) that has money to pay for $5 gas in his gas guzzler can not put that into an ETF Oil and Gasoline stocks to keep his costs flat??
Might be some super duper advanced theoretical stuff unavailable to lesser cultures, but could you explain that last bit ?
I'm interested.
ETF's are Exchange Traded Funds. These "Funds" act like a regular old stock. You buy and sell it just like a stock. Instead of that stock being a company it is made up of "Futures" of a specific Commodity or even a bunch of commodities.
For instance UGA mirrors the latest spot market price for gasoline. If the "Spot" price goes up 1% UGA goes up 1%.
So If you buy a bunch of UGA at todays price and Gasoline goes up (and you pay more at the pump) the dollars in your ETF fund goes up and you have effectively offset the price of the gasoline increase.
In practice it gets a bit tricky bc you would have to constantly sell the ETF to be assured of balancing everything out. But for the long haul with rising gasoline prices it makes some sense.
Farmers do it all the time to insure against crop failure.
Now if you are the conspiracy theorist type you will somehow believe that "They" will somehow conspire to make you lose money with both buying gasoline for your car and holding the ETF.
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So basically, unless you are continually selling, you are paying twice ?
Or you need to tie up a lot of today's cash to secure tomorrow's fuel...assuming that you've got enough spare cash to do so.
Makes sense to me for a farmer to lock in a grain contract, locking his harvest costs in at the same time, not really the average punter who has to get to work 220 days a year.
Or you need to tie up a lot of today's cash to secure tomorrow's fuel...assuming that you've got enough spare cash to do so.
Makes sense to me for a farmer to lock in a grain contract, locking his harvest costs in at the same time, not really the average punter who has to get to work 220 days a year.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
So basically, unless you are continually selling, you are paying twice ?
Makes sense to me for a farmer to lock in a grain contract, locking his harvest costs in at the same time, not really the average punter who has to get to work 220 days a year.
If you want to say that money in a stock or commodity does not count as personal wealth...yes.
A farmer pays to plant his crops and he pays again to insure them. True it is not the full amount, but it is insurance, just like buying gasoline futures. Same principle. I understand what you are saying. I'm just pointing out that its a way to help offset the cost. And yes you have to have the resources to participate.
So basically, unless you are continually selling, you are paying twice ?
Makes sense to me for a farmer to lock in a grain contract, locking his harvest costs in at the same time, not really the average punter who has to get to work 220 days a year.
If you want to say that money in a stock or commodity does not count as personal wealth...yes.
A farmer pays to plant his crops and he pays again to insure them. True it is not the full amount, but it is insurance, just like buying gasoline futures. Same principle. I understand what you are saying. I'm just pointing out that its a way to help offset the cost. And yes you have to have the resources to participate.
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