What to use.....?

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It is not ZERO, NADA. Some people do monitor their cooling systems. In the case of my Sierra, it does not matter what percentage of owners monitor their cooling systems, the only thing that matters is whether I monitor the cooling system and I NEVER neglect the cooling system.
 
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 Originally Posted By: George7941
It is not ZERO, NADA. Some people do monitor their cooling systems. In the case of my Sierra, it does not matter what percentage of owners monitor their cooling systems, the only thing that matters is whether I monitor the cooling system and I NEVER neglect the cooling system.
thats great you do ,,but the other 100,000 people that don't and just run 'er is the ones i'm/were talking/ment about.
 
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 Originally Posted By: George7941
 Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
If Dexcool is so great-then why doesn't EVERY manufacturer use it?? The only OEM who uses anything close is Caterpillar, NOBODY else uses it, the ones who did (such as Ford) RAN away from it!! Can't wait for the "60 years" evidence of Dexcool effects!
When we refer to Dexcool we are really referring to OAT 2eha based coolants, since it is the use of 2eha that is the source of all this controversy. It is the reason why Peak Global is often cited as a replacement for Dexcool since PG is OAT and non- 2eha. That being the case, let us consider the above mentioned Cat ELC. It is a OAT 2eha based coolant and when the engineering department of the world's largest earth-moving machinery manufacturer chooses a 2eha coolant, it surely counts for something. Rotella ELC ,Delo ELC etc are also 2eha based. I have a question for you, Onion. At the Detroit Diesel shop where you work you must run into some Cat engines on trucks that come in. Do you see their cooling systems sludged up? If not, then could it be due to the fact that expensive heavy trucks see more maintenance than cars in general and sludge forms in neglected cooling systems?
Yes, I see heavy truck engines with 2eha coolant fairly often: Rotella, Delo, Cat ELC... even some trucks with genuine Dexcool. I've seen far fewer problems with 2eha coolant in heavy trucks than in automotive applications (though it DOES happen)- and I suspect that this is for two reasons: Dexcool is MUCH more common is automotive applications, and trucks are (usually) regularly maintained by people who (hopefully) know what they're doing. I have seen several sludged dexcool/2eha cooling systems in heavy trucks- the same sticky/muddy nasty $hit that you'll find in automotive applications. Never seen ANY other coolant do that. And to add insult to injury, when dexcool/2eha coolant sours in a heavy diesel application, you can also get some particularly nasty cavitation in the liners and engine block. $$$$. I'll also add that G05 is used in ALL John Deere diesel engines and lots of Mercedes/MTU diesels. I've never seen a SINGLE comparable case of sludge in any of these cooling systems. And sludge isn't the only issue in question- Dexcool's compatibility issues with certain gasket materials are well-established. I worked at a Cummins dealership in the mid/late 90's, and we did a lot of work on Ryder fleet trucks. At one point, they switched their ENTIRE fleet over to Dexcool. Within weeks, the head gaskets began leaking on multiple Cummins N14 engines (dexcool seemed to have this particular effect on ONLY the N14 engines- at least in the short-term). I replaced DOZENS of N14 head gaskets, all covered under Dexcool warranty. The odd thing was that they had us refill the cooling systems with Dexcool immediately after the repair. Supposedly, something in the formula had been changed to address the problem. And it must have worked (at least in the short-term), as I don't recall any come-backs. So, you see- I my passionate hatred of Dexcool goes WAY back. It's based on years of BITTER experience in addressing a variety of failure modes- not JUST the oft-cited sludge.
 Originally Posted By: oldmaninsc
 Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
If Dexcool is so great-then why doesn't EVERY manufacturer use it?? The only OEM who uses anything close is Caterpillar, NOBODY else uses it, the ones who did (such as Ford) RAN away from it!! Can't wait for the "60 years" evidence of Dexcool effects!
I'll throw your question right back to you! If G-05 is so great, why doesn't EVERYONE use it?
Well, that's pretty high standard- if 'everyone' used the same coolant, then we wouldn't be having this debate. But GO5 is used by multiple manufacturers. Ford, Chrysler, Mercedes, and John Deere come to mind immediately- there are likely others.
 
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Off topic. Onion, would you please reconsider your signature? Sure, it is humorous and I had a laugh the first time I saw it. But now it brings to my mind instances of yahoos setting homeless men on fire. Nothing funny about that.
 
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Re use of Dexcool in Cummins N14 engines. Are these engines not wet-sleeve engines? Since Dexcool is not nitrited and does not meet RP6210 specs, what protection does Dexcool provide against liner cavitation?
 
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 Originally Posted By: George7941
Off topic. Onion, would you please reconsider your signature? Sure, it is humorous and I had a laugh the first time I saw it. But now it brings to my mind instances of yahoos setting homeless men on fire. Nothing funny about that.
No. But thanks for the suggestion.
 Originally Posted By: George7941
Re use of Dexcool in Cummins N14 engines. Are these engines not wet-sleeve engines? Since Dexcool is not nitrited and does not meet RP6210 specs, what protection does Dexcool provide against liner cavitation?
Yes, the N14 has wet cylinder liners. NOAT coolants like Cat ELC and such are a lot more common with this sort of engine- but occasionally the truck will be filled with Dexcool (often big fleets will put a sticker on the coolant tank indicating what the system is filled with). Can't say why they'd choose that particular coolant. Wasn't my idea.
 
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 Originally Posted By: George7941
It is not ZERO, NADA. Some people do monitor their cooling systems. In the case of my Sierra, it does not matter what percentage of owners monitor their cooling systems, the only thing that matters is whether I monitor the cooling system and I NEVER neglect the cooling system.
Exactly. I agree. I guess now there are two of us in the world that monitor their cooling systems. As I said on another post - I usually don't let my coolant go 4 1/2 years. But I guess according to some people, my gaskets should start leaking here anytime now. I've just been lucky for 4 years and 6 months. LOL! I'm well aware that Ford uses G-05 in their vehicles. I happen to have a couple of them. The fact that Chrysler uses it, (to me at least) doesn't say much.
 
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 Originally Posted By: onion
I worked at a Cummins dealership in the mid/late 90's, and we did a lot of work on Ryder fleet trucks. So, you see- I my passionate hatred of Dexcool goes WAY back.
Wow - that's a lot of years. LOL I have socks older than that!
 Originally Posted By: oldmaninsc
 Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
If Dexcool is so great-then why doesn't EVERY manufacturer use it?? The only OEM who uses anything close is Caterpillar, NOBODY else uses it, the ones who did (such as Ford) RAN away from it!! Can't wait for the "60 years" evidence of Dexcool effects!
I'll throw your question right back to you! If G-05 is so great, why doesn't EVERYONE use it?
 Originally Posted By: onion
Well, that's pretty high standard- if 'everyone' used the same coolant, then we wouldn't be having this debate.
Yup, my point exactly. I answered a stupid question with another stupid question!
 
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 Quote:
Wow - that's a lot of years. LOL I have socks older than that!
Heh. No doubt you do. But I've been FEELING particularly old these days as my niece just finished her first year in high school... and I'm taking college classes with kids who are (biologically speaking) young enough to be MY kids. But my point is that my mechanicin' career spans the ENTIRE history of Dexcool. I witnessed its introduction, dealt with some of its immediate problems, and have seen a steady stream of dexcool failures as the years have passed. Now that GM has eliminated the intake gasket issue in most (or all?) of their engines, addressed the radiator cap issue, AND the general publik has become vaguely aware that Dexcool=poison, these failures MAY start to decrease. But I ain't holdin' my breath. And I agree with you that for folks like yourself who know how to maintain your vehicle (and actually check it regularly), you'll probably be fine... assuming your luck holds. But there are other options available where "probably" isn't the best that you can hope for. I KNOW that my G05 systems won't have sludge problems.
 
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People want to dump on 2-EHA and think Dex-Cool is the only coolant formula that uses it. A couple of the posters did point out Cat ELC and some others. How about BMW, Daewoo, Volvo, SAAB and others. 2-EHA is not the problem. I agree with those who state to maintain the cooling system. If you see a problem or discoloration, fix the problem, flush and refill at that time, don’t wait. Check for air leaks. Air is detrimental to any cooling system no matter what type of coolant is in the system. Most of the posters here know what cavatation corrosion/erosion is, so there is no need to go into an explanation. The one thing to know about silicates is they coat metals quickly to protect them but, silicates “drop out” (deplete) faster than other inhibitors; about 15,000 to 25,000 miles or so. Water pumps today use a different seal design than in the past. High silicate coolants can precipitate and build deposits around the water pump seal and cause leaks. If you read some of the water pump manufacturers’ directions they state to use Low or NO silicate coolants; on newer design vehicles. If it is an older vehicle it will have the original seal design in the water pump; not the new design. This is just one of the reasons why you should not use conventional green coolant in today’s vehicles.
 
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Fastauto, welcome to BITOG. Nice to have your input. Your post brings up a couple of questions. If silicates deplete that rapidly, how can Valvoline claim 5yr/150000mi life for Xerex G-05? I understand that modern waterpump seals are more durable because they use carbide. Would this not make it more resistant to abrasive silicates?
 
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 Originally Posted By: daman
 Originally Posted By: George7941
It is not ZERO, NADA. Some people do monitor their cooling systems. In the case of my Sierra, it does not matter what percentage of owners monitor their cooling systems, the only thing that matters is whether I monitor the cooling system and I NEVER neglect the cooling system.
thats great you do ,,but the other 100,000 people that don't and just run 'er is the ones i'm/were talking/ment about.
Daman, we are not talking about the other 100,000 people. The OP's question dealt with use of Dexcool in HIS Corvette, not the 100,000 other cars. And my reply was that Dexcool was fine if HE maintained HIS cooling system. It doesn't matter to his car if the other 100,000 cars are neglected. .
 
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 Originally Posted By: George7941
 Originally Posted By: daman
 Originally Posted By: George7941
It is not ZERO, NADA. Some people do monitor their cooling systems. In the case of my Sierra, it does not matter what percentage of owners monitor their cooling systems, the only thing that matters is whether I monitor the cooling system and I NEVER neglect the cooling system.
thats great you do ,,but the other 100,000 people that don't and just run 'er is the ones i'm/were talking/ment about.
Daman, we are not talking about the other 100,000 people. The OP's question dealt with use of Dexcool in HIS Corvette, not the 100,000 other cars. And my reply was that Dexcool was fine if HE maintained HIS cooling system. It doesn't matter to his car if the other 100,000 cars are neglected. .
But i am..no but his could see that same fate the others did if it gets neglected,that was my point.it is possible. but no matter i really don't care not my car
 
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 Originally Posted By: George7941
Of course, you care! All Bitogers care.
shhhh, ;\) ,, i guess i ment he can do what he wants/what woks for him.
 
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About silicates: The days of "high silicate" coolant are pretty much gone. That sort of antifreeze is [censored] near impossible to find these days, and for good reason. The infamous 'green slime' of days gone by was caused by silicate dropout. Not nearly as destructive or difficult to clean up as today's Dex-sludge... but not a happy occurrence just the same. These days, any common coolant containing silicates would fall into the "low silicate" category. Neither silicate dropout (a.k.a. green slime) nor water pump seal abrasion is an issue with any modern coolant. But if you, for example, buy some store-brand coolant that's been sitting on the back shelf for 10 years and dump it into your 'Yota... then yeah- you just might take out the water pump seal.
 
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There are other inhibitors in the coolant formula that will last for the life of the coolant such as, organic and/or inorganic acids. That is the benefit of today’s coolants because these organic and/or inorganic acids last much longer and do not deplete as fast. As I pontificated, silicates (HOAT) are used for fast coating protection during initial fill. Yes it is true that non-silicate (OAT) coolants do take a little time to act with the metal for protection (this is not very long, but not at the rate of silicated). But the other benefit to Non-silicate (OAT) is it has a longer service interval thus protects longer. Those that understand Heavy-Duty know that you have to monitor the inhibitors to keep them from depleting over time. A low silicate conventional HD coolant uses SCA’s; which is a supplemental coolant additive (Silicate, nitrite, phosphate, borate, nitrate, etc…) from depleting. When these inhibitors deplete you can have corrosion/erosion. On the other hand, if you put too much additives in the coolant it can cause problems also, a fine balance. This is too expensive for automotive. So it’s cheaper and easier to change your coolant when you see problems or at the OE recommended service interval. What most people forget is just because it says 5 years or 150,000 miles doesn’t mean don’t pay attention to the cooling system (some of the posters pointed this out). Common sense tells us if you see signs of contamination (floaters) in the coolant, do a flush and fill, even if it is at 35,000 miles. The contamination can adhere to hot metal surfaces and cause deposit build-up. There are other factors, pros and cons, to different additives when it comes to water quality.
 
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To your water pump question (and not always the case, but for the most part): the older seals were brass/phenolic and the newer seal designs are ceramic/phenolic. Silicates that build up near the seal and shaft can cause the same problems in today’s water pumps. If you know what you are putting in the system then you should be safe, for an example; additive packages that say they reduce electrolysis in the cooling system. What is in it… Nitrite, nitrate, silicates, borate, phosphate, amines, azole ????????? This is where you can get in trouble and cause problems.
 
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If you want to stick with the Dex-cool you'll be fine. The cooling system design is a good sealed system. Air and water quality (NO well or hard water) are the key issues for any coolant. One point on GO5 - Chrysler is moving away from it and has gone to another manufacturer, Mercedes is also looking at another manufacturer and is deciding to move away from GO5.
 
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