What temperature does synthetic oil actually degrade at?

We all know modern API-approved oils are good to go with manufacture oil change intervals.

However is there a magical temperature that oil loses its properties at? I am asking because I’ve started to attend HPDE lapping sessions. I’m curious since the oil temp stays higher on track than steel use. Based on my research there are two camps:

1. Replace oil immediately after track day
2. Track use is easier in oil than stop and go, just follow OCI for lapping (non-race) use.
The big killer of oil now is fuel dilution.
It would seem stop and go with short trips is a least as bad for oil as racing.
Banks power dyno tests their engines like they're pulling trailers up hills at 100mph for an hour at a time and they do oil changes after hundreds of hours of doing that.
 
We all know modern API-approved oils are good to go with manufacture oil change intervals.

However is there a magical temperature that oil loses its properties at? I am asking because I’ve started to attend HPDE lapping sessions. I’m curious since the oil temp stays higher on track than steel use. Based on my research there are two camps:

1. Replace oil immediately after track day
2. Track use is easier in oil than stop and go, just follow OCI for lapping (non-race) use.
What vehicle? You want oils that are bit more stout than just API. Generally, look for oils with Porsche A40 approvals. Mobil1 0W40, Pennzoil Platinu Euro 5W40 etc.
That being said, it depends on your vehicle. I ran Mobil1 0W40 in my BMW up to 300f and changed it after 5k OCI. It had maybe 400 track miles.
After that I installed oil cooler and oil temperatures are never exceeding 260f and I do 5K OCI.
So, what vehicle? How long have you been staying on track? What is your oil temperature?
 
2024 Civic Type R. Currently running Mobil 1 0W20 EP. Car is bone stock. From what I've seen on the forums 0W20 is fine as long as you are stock.
 
The biggest issue I have seen/experienced with increased oil temps is the flow-through to the coolant temps. Everyone freaks out when they see 250 deg oil, wants to pull off, change the oil....the oil is just fine but after 20 min your coolant may not be. Mine at 240 coolant temp dings at you on the dash that you are overheating.

A track log of temps for a session at VIR in the mid-80s.

https://datazap.me/u/karstgeo72/vir-temp-log-0?log=0&data=1-3-4-5
 
Back to the "Toaster Test".
Nobody mentioned auxiliary oil / transmission coolers.
B/c they add a level of complexity/failure point that isn't necessary some times. Hood venting may be all that is needed to increase cooling efficiency. Just something to consider before going to external coolers.
 
B/c they add a level of complexity/failure point that isn't necessary some times. Hood venting may be all that is needed to increase cooling efficiency. Just something to consider before going to external coolers.
Agreed. I don’t like the idea of a 10psi pressure drop due to introducing an oil cooler in the mix.

Regarding the venting, that’s the big difference between FK8 and FL5 type R. For the FL5 Honda enlarged the engine bay and left space behind the radiator to vent heat out up out the hood vent.
 
2024 Civic Type R. Currently running Mobil 1 0W20 EP. Car is bone stock. From what I've seen on the forums 0W20 is fine as long as you are stock.
There is a very high oil capacity for that motor too I believe. I think you would still be best serve changing the oil often. You start adding parts which is a hard thing not to do especially on a platform like that and you can throw almost all w20 out of the windows.
 
Agreed. I don’t like the idea of a 10psi pressure drop due to introducing an oil cooler in the mix.

Regarding the venting, that’s the big difference between FK8 and FL5 type R. For the FL5 Honda enlarged the engine bay and left space behind the radiator to vent heat out up out the hood vent.
Line choice is critical and many systems are sold with AN8 which is too small, 10 is the way to go. I am going to eventually cut my hood and add some hood vents. BTW, some great testing for track rats here on my buddies page/YouTube:

datadrivenmqb.com

VW-focused but a lot of it transfers to your Civic or any turbo car on track with high oil temps. Testing > bro science!
 
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A long, long, long time ago when M1 was a real synthetic, They advertised it was good up to 350F.

Seems like most synthetic oil are not as "real" as they used to be.

Aren't most real syn going back to Grp III or GTL stuff these days? That means drop the 350F advertisement to ~300F. And that's for the bearings or the cylinder head area which can get even much hotter than that and not the sump temp.

Conclusion:
Even with synthetic (real or not), when in doubt, use a thicker oil.
My poor Tundra wants 0W-20 but I am afraid of the viscosity police and may move to Mexico so I can use 40 or even 50. 🤣
 
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The warning came on just as the idle oil pressure dropped to 19 psi. Dodge seems to have used a really conservative pressure limit for the warning, especially since the oil was only 235°F.

Most cars have a simple pressure switch that activates at 2-5 psi, and the light coming on represents a major problem. On this truck it seems like it can be more of a nuisance alarm.

I doubt 19 psi at idle is doing any harm to the engine, but yes, a thicker grade of oil would require higher oil temperatures before the pressure warning trips.
I’ve got a Durango 3.6 right now for a rental. It’s got 33psi warm at idle and jumps to around 78psi at full throttle even in the 3-4k range. IMO and against known data, this seems HIGHLY excessive and is probably how they’re trying to make the engines survive with thin oils- MOFT is dependent on film thickness, and if load exceeds the MOFT at a given oil pressure, simply double the oil pressure and use hydraulic advantage to force the metal-to-metal contact apart.
 
Seems like most synthetic oil are not as "real" as they used to be.

Aren't most real syn going back to Grp III or GTL stuff these days? That means drop the 350F advertisement to ~300F. And that's for the bearings or the cylinder head area which can get even much hotter than that and not the sump temp.

Conclusion:
Even with synthetic (real or not), when in doubt, use a thicker oil.
My poor Tundra wants 0W-20 but I am afraid of the viscosity police and may move to Mexico so I can use 40 or even 50. 🤣
Any normal-use engine sold today is fine with the recommended viscosity. When operating at or outside the limits of recommended normal operation, additional protection may be required.

All I know is I used several expensive 5w30s that did not perform as advertised under reasonable operation in my 3.5 EcoBoost. Once I found the right oil (supplied by a site sponsor no less) I was able to triple my OCI distance and still protect the engine, and the cost was actually cheaper per mile than what’s available on WM shelves.

A better way to phrase your point would be, “when in doubt, buy a better oil, not necessarily a thicker one.”
 
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would a lower noack and higher flash point contribute to helping oil not degrade so fast and lugging load , along with in spec. manufactures viscosity, along with correct oci,as additives basically are being used up and lowering the hths & moft?, temperature of the engine can and is related to the designed cooling system and condition of it.of course the outside air temp and even humidity shall be considered.
 


Interesting video stressing engine oil.. The oil light is triggered at the 21:35 mark.
Low oil pressure warning.
Would an HTHS oil rating of 3.5 or higher prevented this?

I watched that video and it irrated the heck out of me - those guys are stupid. They couldn't figure out that duh the huge stress test they just did on 20wt oil and it thinned out - nothing bad happened except the low oil press light came on (AT IDLE mind you) temporarily and it was still above 15psi as the alert triggers under 20psi. So the truck made it where the Ford and Chevy didn't (they overheated) and they fail the Ram for a normal situation in my opinion. They have no mechanical smarts to figure that that 90 degree temps, towing up hill to 8000 ft with 10,500lb trailer in 4wd and 20wt oil.....it did AMAZING based on that level of stress.
 
Any normal-use engine sold today is fine with the recommended viscosity. When operating at or outside the limits of recommended normal operation, additional protection may be required.

All I know is I used several expensive 5w30s that did not perform as advertised under reasonable operation in my 3.5 EcoBoost. Once I found the right oil (supplied by a site sponsor no less) I was able to triple my OCI distance and still protect the engine, and the cost was actually cheaper per mile than what’s available on WM shelves.

A better way to phrase your point would be, “when in doubt, buy a better oil, not necessarily a thicker one.”

My assumption was that we are under Full Synthetic oil of our choice within a given budget i.e. store brands since I don't use boutique oils. And if the oil is thinning out due to higher temperatures (as suggested by some members), we should then use a thicker oil within that budget +/- ... Not necessarily move to a boutique oil. Granted that it may not be a bad idea if one is willing to allocate a higher budget without compromising their short(er) OCIs.
 
How specifically didn't they perform?
The Ravenol was seriously out of grade, TBN essentially completely depleted. It would probably have been changed at 5k if I had sampled it then.

The HPL went ~2.6 times longer distance, did not shear out of grade (both samples were <1% fuel), still had 7.8TBN, and a wear rate of less than 2ppm/1k miles.

The more impressive fact of that test is my truck was stock during the Ravenol runs, and for the 16k run had a pretty hot E30 tune (~500+rwhp) along with some bolt-ons, and was through winter time as well. As the final nail in the Ravenol coffin, the DXG was $94 delivered from Blauparts, and the HPL was about $85.
 
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