What oil to use in my Cobra???

[About2bite]

Hey guys, i'm new to the site. Lots of great info here!

I have a 04 Kenne Bell Cobra and am getting ready to change the oil and was just curious as to what weight oil would be best and who's oil would up the best on a high power FI motor?

Right now I run Valvoline Fully Synth 10W30, Ford recommends 5W20. What brand and weight should I use for my application?

Car info:
2004 SVT Cobra
Kenne Bell @ 19#'s of boost
560 RWHP
Almost 13,000 miles
Arizona Car (Hot in summer, cold/cool in Winter)

* This is not my daily driver but gets driven quite often now, never goes to the track but sees some spirited driving on the street.

Thanks guys,

Josh

 

[Shannow]

Snake oil ???

 

[Falex]

http://aerospacelubricants.thomasnet.com...y=prod&filter=0

 

[MGregoir]

Ford's factory supercharged GT500 Cobras use 5W-50 making less horsepower from more displacement. I would be tempted to run at least a 5W-40 or in that motor. Do you have an oil temperature gauge?

How often do you change your oil? After your next oil change, I would send some away for analysis to see what your engine is wearing like. 5W-20 would be too thin unless you are basically idling that engine all of the time.

I am thinking depending on UOAs and such that 5W-40 grade "European formula" oils might be right for this application. Mobil 1 0W-40 also falls in that group.

Your local Mobil distributor can order in the Mobil 1 5W-50 for you, few places carry it but I do know it exists. Castrol, Pennzoil, Quaker State and 76/ConocoPhillips/Kendall make 5W-50 oils as well.

 

[About2bite]

Originally Posted By: Falex
http://aerospacelubricants.thomasnet.com/item/market-automotive/prodrive-21/pn7092?&plpver=10&origin=advsrch&by=prod&filter=0



0W20? Do they have different weights?

Thanks for the link

Originally Posted By: MGregoir
Ford's factory supercharged GT500 Cobras use 5W-50 making less horsepower from more displacement. I would be tempted to run at least a 5W-40 or in that motor. Do you have an oil temperature gauge?

How often do you change your oil? After your next oil change, I would send some away for analysis to see what your engine is wearing like. 5W-20 would be too thin unless you are basically idling that engine all of the time.

I am thinking depending on UOAs and such that 5W-40 grade "European formula" oils might be right for this application. Mobil 1 0W-40 also falls in that group.

Your local Mobil distributor can order in the Mobil 1 5W-50 for you, few places carry it but I do know it exists. Castrol, Pennzoil, Quaker State and 76/ConocoPhillips/Kendall make 5W-50 oils as well.


I change it about every 3K or so, where do I wend it off to and whats that cost?

No I don't have a oil temp gauge. A 50 weight oil would be ok to run? wouldn't that be a pretty think oil to use?

Thanks

Josh

 

[About2bite]

What brands are the most reputable?
Amsoil?
Royal Purple?
Mobile 1?
Valvoline? How is Valvolines reputuation on the forum?

 

[MGregoir]

I don't know, I would think in that application a 20 would be too thin, a 30 could be right, a 40 could be right, and it's one of the few applications a 50 may even be right.

I am just mentioning that based off the Ford factory recommendation for the factory built supercharged motors in the GT500 and Ford GT. Those are 500 horsepower, blown 5.4 litre engines. Ford specifies 5W-50 for them.

You live somewhere warm enough a 10W-30 oil is no big deal versus the factory 5W-20, but with all the mods in your vehicle I would think it may like oil one step heavier yet. 5W-40 oils hold up well under high heat, especially at points like bearing surfaces, etc. and the ones marked European formula are typically more heavily tested and have more additive than an off the shelf 10W-40.

The only way to really find out is an oil analysis to see if there is abnormal bearing wear or something with the oil you presently use. To do that, go to http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free_test_kit.html and request a test kit. Next oil change, drain some of the oil into the container, ship it to them and for $22.50 they will analyze it for wear metals (stuff that came out of your bearings, off your cam, etc.), coolant (head gasket or intake manifold leaks cause this), and a few other things. If it shows it is wearing too much on 10W-30, you may want to go thicker. There are a few other tests but the most interesting I think would be the wear metals.

 

[98LSC32V]

Don't run 5w-50, the GT500 and the Ford GT500 is specifically designed with tolerances allowing such a thick oil. I would use Amsoil 5w-30 or Redline 5-30 unless a UOA comes back with excessive wear... than you can go up a grade to a 40 weight.

 

[About2bite]

Originally Posted By: MGregoir
I don't know, I would think in that application a 20 would be too thin, a 30 could be right, a 40 could be right, and it's one of the few applications a 50 may even be right.

I am just mentioning that based off the Ford factory recommendation for the factory built supercharged motors in the GT500 and Ford GT. Those are 500 horsepower, blown 5.4 litre engines. Ford specifies 5W-50 for them.

You live somewhere warm enough a 10W-30 oil is no big deal versus the factory 5W-20, but with all the mods in your vehicle I would think it may like oil one step heavier yet. 5W-40 oils hold up well under high heat, especially at points like bearing surfaces, etc. and the ones marked European formula are typically more heavily tested and have more additive than an off the shelf 10W-40.

The only way to really find out is an oil analysis to see if there is abnormal bearing wear or something with the oil you presently use. To do that, go to http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free_test_kit.html and request a test kit. Next oil change, drain some of the oil into the container, ship it to them and for $22.50 they will analyze it for wear metals (stuff that came out of your bearings, off your cam, etc.), coolant (head gasket or intake manifold leaks cause this), and a few other things. If it shows it is wearing too much on 10W-30, you may want to go thicker. There are a few other tests but the most interesting I think would be the wear metals.


Your reasoning behind the thicker motor oil makes perfect sense, I never really though about the GT500 having the thicker oil, i'm sure it wouldn't hurt anything. I will more than likely send a sample of my current oil and see how it compares to the oil I decide to try this time. Is it better to go with a thicker oil or a thinner oil in a HOT climate? I was thinking a thinner oil would flow better and allow the motor to stay cooler by allowing less strain on the crank? I'm no oil expert, actually I know very little about the different motor oils and their benefits. All I know is I put Valvoline in my Cobra and Mobile 1 in my DD lol

Josh

 

[About2bite]

Originally Posted By: 98LSC32V
Don't run 5w-50, the GT500 and the Ford GT500 is specifically designed with tolerances allowing such a thick oil. I would use Amsoil 5w-30 or Redline 5-30 unless a UOA comes back with excessive wear... than you can go up a grade to a 40 weight.


Hmmm, interesting. So what would be a benefit of going with a thinker oil such as a 40 weight or in some circumstances a 50 weight oil?

 

[98LSC32V]

It depends, if your motor is shearing down the 30 weight oil it will cause excessive wear thus you would need a thicker oil which is more shear resistant. If it's not shearing down I really don't see the need for a thicker oil in your 4.6 DOHC application, others may disagree.

 

[About2bite]

Ok I understand, but what about a 0W motor oil or a 5W? Even though it doesn't get below 70 in the summer here (at night, 110+ during the day) would there be any drawbacks from running a 0W motor oil? It would just flow better when cold correct, even though it never gets "cold" would it have any negative effects on the motor?

Thanks,

Josh

 

[MGregoir]

Oil thins out as it gets hot, the higher your oil temperatures, the thinner the oil becomes. A heavier grade oil at the same temperature as a lighter grade oil will have a thicker film, but flow less. Oil flow is good because it helps to cool things down and maintain the oil film.

It's about finding balance between high temperature protection (when it gets hot and thins out) and flow (thicker oil is harder to keep moving). As well, at low temperatures (the 0W, 5W and 10W measure this), the oils are rated for cold flow performance because when you first start up after your car has sat, the oil is much thicker and harder to pump when hot. A 0W-30 will flow much better than a 10W-30 if it is 40 degrees outside, and the colder it gets, the more apparent this becomes.

I only brought up the 5W-50 because I didn't realize there was a major difference in the internals for the GT500 motor clearance wise.

There's no such thing as "bad" oils in most cases but some are better than others, and it all depends on the application.

Look on the bottle for ACEA A3/B3 would be good advice for this, I would think. The A3 is a minimum standard for certain things required by higher end, higher horsepower European vehicles. An oil that is rated ACEA A3 in a 0W-30, 5W-30, 10W-30, 0W-40 or 5W-40 might be good for this, as at high oil temperatures it has to be thicker than 3.5 cSt.

The minimum requirements of the oil grades for any 30 or 0W/5W-40 when not rated A3 as well is 2.9 cSt, so much thinner. If it isn't rated A3, look on the spec sheet (all the manufacturer websites for oil have them) for an HT/HS viscosity of 3.5 to 3.7. Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-30 and 0W-40 meet ACEA A3, the 0W-40 is on the light side of the 40 weight range (supposedly shears down to a thick 30 in use). Castrol Syntec European Formula 0W-30 is also an A3 oil.

Living in Arizona, I might give Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-30 a try. The cold flow isn't as big of an issue as somewhere it gets to be -25, and although it is a "high mileage" oil it just means it has more additives in it to help keep the engine clean and condition the seals. It is still a 30 weight, but it should be shear stable and in high temperature situations offer an extra margin of protection without being too thick. If you can find it and want to stay with Valvoline, there is a Valvoline SynPower MST 5W-30 that meets A3. This is not the regular 5W-30, so I do not know how easy/hard it is to find, but it is formulated to be in line with the more stringent European manufacturer specs.

 

[MGregoir]

As far as the 0W, 5W and 10W thing, the oils are tested for how easy they are to pump when it is cold. 10W is at -30 C, 5W at -35 C and 0W at -40 C. A 0W oil has to be better at -40 than a 10W oil has to be at -30, and at pretty much any given temperature below operating temperature will offer better flow.

However, due to additives in oil to change how it thins out (multigrade oil does not thin out in a linear way), the greater the spread between weights, the harder time it has staying in grade at operating temperature. This is because viscosity index improvers, the additive in the oil to make it thin cold but thick enough hot, break down. This is less of a problem in modern oils and synthetics tend to stay in grade very well, but a 5W-30 conventional oil after 3000 miles is more like a 5W-20 than a 5W-30 due to this. Even Mobil 1 tends to do that. A 10W-30, because there is less of a spread, does not tend to do this as badly. Amsoil ACD is an oil with no viscosity index improvers that actually passes the test to be a 10W-30, just on the characteristics of its base oil. Most 0W-30 oils such as German Castrol or Amsoil SSO do not tend to do this, but they are oils formulated to be very long lasting, stable, high performance oils.

I recommended an A3 rated oil because a 0W-30, 5W-30 or 10W-30 rated A3 has to face a higher standard in high temperature scenarios that really break down the oil, and typically A3 products are "higher end" in quality as they are required for the Mercedes, BMWs, etc. with high horsepower engines and long drain intervals for oil changes.

 

[About2bite]

Thanks! Great info MGregoir, never knew about all the different ratings. I'll see what's available near me but I have no problem ordering something online and having it shipped to me. Sounds like that Mobil 1 HM oil might be a good one, i'm not stuck on Valvoline I jsut want to see what else is out there that may perform better. I'm very picky about this stuff and am sure the oil i'm using now is sufficient but if there is better... Why not?

Thanks for the info, so what do you think about a 0W or 5W, would there be any reason to not run a 0W?
Would it be more beneficial to run say a 10W in the summer and a 5W or 0W in the winter?

Thanks for the reply

Josh

 

[About2bite]

Originally Posted By: MGregoir
As far as the 0W, 5W and 10W thing, the oils are tested for how easy they are to pump when it is cold. 10W is at -30 C, 5W at -35 C and 0W at -40 C. A 0W oil has to be better at -40 than a 10W oil has to be at -30, and at pretty much any given temperature below operating temperature will offer better flow.

However, due to additives in oil to change how it thins out (multigrade oil does not thin out in a linear way), the greater the spread between weights, the harder time it has staying in grade at operating temperature. This is because viscosity index improvers, the additive in the oil to make it thin cold but thick enough hot, break down. This is less of a problem in modern oils and synthetics tend to stay in grade very well, but a 5W-30 conventional oil after 3000 miles is more like a 5W-20 than a 5W-30 due to this. Even Mobil 1 tends to do that. A 10W-30, because there is less of a spread, does not tend to do this as badly. Amsoil ACD is an oil with no viscosity index improvers that actually passes the test to be a 10W-30, just on the characteristics of its base oil. Most 0W-30 oils such as German Castrol or Amsoil SSO do not tend to do this, but they are oils formulated to be very long lasting, stable, high performance oils.

I recommended an A3 rated oil because a 0W-30, 5W-30 or 10W-30 rated A3 has to face a higher standard in high temperature scenarios that really break down the oil, and typically A3 products are "higher end" in quality as they are required for the Mercedes, BMWs, etc. with high horsepower engines and long drain intervals for oil changes.


Ok thanks, i'll probably run 10W in the summer and a 5W in the winter. It does get a bit could down here in the winter, sometimes into the teens. Definately nothing compared to other parts of the U.S. but i'm sure those temps will have some effect on the oil. This winter I ran 10W30 through the motor, i'll try something that flows a bit better in the lower temps next winter.

Josh

 

[MGregoir]

I really don't know the characteristics of your specific car so it is hard to say, an oil temperature gauge would give a world of information about this but we can't have everything.

If you are running a 5W-30 or 0W-30 that is showing good wear performance and the oil is staying in grade satisfactorily (both are things oil analysis can show) in summer, I would use it year round.

10W-30 because of the hot conditions there is not as much of an issue, because your oil temperatures have a big head start as far as warming up, and it would be more shear stable, but if it does not have an advantage over the 0W-30 or 5W-30 in wear, it is really for nothing.

I'd get an oil analysis done, find out what the wear in your engine is like after 3,000 miles on oil with the oil you are using, and if it is fine, keep using it or find something "better" in the same grade, if it is not showing good wear, there are so many options out there to try. I think going to an AutoZone and picking up Castrol Syntec 0W-30 (make sure it says Made in Germany on the bottles, if it doesn't, don't bother) and trying that next. It is an A3 oil, a 0W-30, and extremely highly regarded here to the point of claims it is "magical" and run it to see what your results are like.

This is where the fun begins.

 

[About2bite]

OK will do, thanks.

Does anyone have any links to some good oil informative threads in the forum?

Since Castrol is the top oil here, what else is regarded as a extremely good quality oil?

Thanks

Josh

 

[MGregoir]

It's not so much Castrol products as a whole, but particular oils that get well regarded.

For conventional oils Pennzoil seems to be in the best regard, with Mobil Clean 5000 as a good value oil. For everyday type use and 3,000 to 5,000 mile oil changes a lot of people even swear by Wal-Mart SuperTech.

Lots of people like Valvoline MaxLife products.

Pennzoil Platinum gets a lot of good word here because as far as most of us are concerned it is the best value for money in oil. Good wear, seems to be fairly long lasting, and relatively cheap.

German Castrol (the 0W-30 European Formula) and Belgian Castrol (5W-40 European Formula) are well regarded as solid performing oils, moreso the German than the Belgian.

There is not really a bad word to be said about Amsoil products, but very few are manufacturer approved or standard tested, and their Amway-ish sales model bothers some people. It all depends on application and knowing what you are using it in and why.

People like to pick on Mobil 1 here but it is a good oil. The 0W-40 is popular for many European vehicles.

Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum, Amsoil, German Castrol and Redline oil are all great choices but you have to pick and choose for your application and uses.

RLi BioSyn 5W-40 is a unique oil derived from plant esters that has shown really good performance in certain applications that destroy other oils.

Motorcraft 5W-20 synthetic blend is as far as 5W-20s go, and for the cost, a steal of a deal. When it comes to 5W-20 oils in normal applications, all are compared against it.

Schaeffer oils are made in St. Louis and very good products, more commonly referred to by the diesel guys than the gasoline side though. On that side Mobil Delvac, Chevron Delo, Shell Rotella and Schaeffer's products are all held in high regard.

 

[AzFireGuy79]

I have used Red Line 10w-40 in my 96 turbo charged camaro SS ( 1,000 RWHP for a couple of years now with great results. Just had the motor apart recently (LT-1) and everything looked very clean with minimal wear if any. For high HP applications I only use Red Line. I use other oils (synthetic of course) for my daily drivers. FYI, there is alot of distaste for Red Line on this forum. Alot of people think UOA's are the end all when it comes to an oils quality. I know its not that black and white. Red Line makes good stuff, especially for racing and this is coming from a guy who also uses Amsoil along with others! Best of luck in your quest for the best oil.