What new car is built well, with metal parts?

[RAVL]

I have over 29 years and over 150k miles on my Club Sport; I have replaced two cooling system components: a thermostat and a plastic heater hose fitting. The expansion tank, hoses, radiator, and water pump are all original.

That is a nice car, part of peak BMW. (My wife wanted one with the rollback roof.) One of the advantages that the four cylinder has is that there is much more room under the hood to work and it has been my hypothesis that the four cylinder e36 cars (unlike the six cylinder models) are better able to control or dissipate heat under the hood because there is more space. I don’t think they run lower cooling system pressures but having never owned a four cylinder BMW I don’t know. As far as other models, I am not an e36 owner but I know that at one point many years ago when they were more common on the track (for driving events or actual racing) it was typical to see the Zionsville (maybe zionsport - I do t remember the name with the passage of time) all metal radiators on the six cylinder models or the track would mandate you run distilled water and not coolant. As far as the V8 models go, my experience is every 60k or so. The first time it happened was in 1999-2000 when the car had 60k. I thought like you, probably a fluke. Next time in the 2010-2011 I was heading home from a business trip, a long flight from the far east, and I got stuck 20 minutes outside the airport - telltale of smoke down by the headlight told me immediately what happened. Third time I changed everything out preventively. Knowledgeable friends and my own experience tell me this is part of owning what has otherwise been a great car. I am glad your experience has been different. All a long way of saying, using my 4Runner as an example, that plastic can be OK but it needs to be engineered correctly. Changing out cooling systems every 60k isn’t normal or acceptable.

The good news is that this is all academic on the newer cars as the whole car is recyclable so when the cooling system blows up or the V8 turbos cook the valves, you just throw it away and get a new one. The videos at the BMW museum in Munich spend a lot of time showing (what seem like new to me) newish cars get recycled. I found it depressing, I felt old as those cars in the videos looked like good cars to me. Have a good day everyone.

 

[KrisZ]

It’s a silly thing to worry about IMO.

 

[MCompact]

That is a nice car, part of peak BMW. (My wife wanted one with the rollback roof.) One of the advantages that the four cylinder has is that there is much more room under the hood to work and it has been my hypothesis that the four cylinder e36 cars (unlike the six cylinder models) are better able to control or dissipate heat under the hood because there is more space. I don’t think they run lower cooling system pressures but having never owned a four cylinder BMW I don’t know. As far as other models, I am not an e36 owner but I know that at one point many years ago when they were more common on the track (for driving events or actual racing) it was typical to see the Zionsville (maybe zionsport - I do t remember the name with the passage of time) all metal radiators on the six cylinder models or the track would mandate you run distilled water and not coolant. As far as the V8 models go, my experience is every 60k or so. The first time it happened was in 1999-2000 when the car had 60k. I thought like you, probably a fluke. Next time in the 2010-2011 I was heading home from a business trip, a long flight from the far east, and I got stuck 20 minutes outside the airport - telltale of smoke down by the headlight told me immediately what happened. Third time I changed everything out preventively. Knowledgeable friends and my own experience tell me this is part of owning what has otherwise been a great car. I am glad your experience has been different. All a long way of saying, using my 4Runner as an example, that plastic can be OK but it needs to be engineered correctly. Changing out cooling systems every 60k isn’t normal or acceptable.

The good news is that this is all academic on the newer cars as the whole car is recyclable so when the cooling system blows up or the V8 turbos cook the valves, you just throw it away and get a new one. The videos at the BMW museum in Munich spend a lot of time showing (what seem like new to me) newish cars get recycled. I found it depressing, I felt old as those cars in the videos looked like good cars to me. Have a good day everyone.

I know the E36 six cylinders had radiator issues, and it beats me as to why the fours aren't similarly afflicted. By choice/chance I've give V8 BMWs a wide berth. I found that on the older sixes you could usually go at least 120k before a cooling system overhaul. All bets are off on the newer Bimmers, due in large part to how hot they run by design- which leads to leaking valve cover and oil filter housing gaskets, among other things.
I'm interested to see how the M276 motor in my C43 ages; the M-B forums indicate that it is relatively problem free. Time will tell.

 

[Carmudgeon]

I know the E36 six cylinders had radiator issues, and it beats me as to why the fours aren't similarly afflicted. By choice/chance I've give V8 BMWs a wide berth. I found that on the older sixes you could usually go at least 120k before a cooling system overhaul. All bets are off on the newer Bimmers, due in large part to how hot they run by design- which leads to leaking valve cover and oil filter housing gaskets, among other things.
I'm interested to see how the M276 motor in my C43 ages; the M-B forums indicate that it is relatively problem free. Time will tell.

Not just radiators, but the water pumps, which spawned the aftermarket "upgrade" options like the Stewart.

Why the fours were spared is a mystery, considering the fundamental designs are very similar, except for the separate expansion tank. Same pressure limit as well.

The M42 had some well-known issues early on, like the profile gasket, but was continually refined, and pretty much a proven design by time the late M42 was put into the early Compacts, before the emissions/efficiency-minded revision M44 supplanted it. The plastic manifold on the rear of its head was one potential issue, and people also replaced the manifold under the intake as a long-term item, but neither to the extent of the prophylactic practices some followed with the sixes.

The fours also avoided the coil-on-plug issues, having outboard coils/packs mounted on the strut tower.

 

[RAVL]

I know the E36 six cylinders had radiator issues, and it beats me as to why the fours aren't similarly afflicted. By choice/chance I've give V8 BMWs a wide berth. I found that on the older sixes you could usually go at least 120k before a cooling system overhaul. All bets are off on the newer Bimmers, due in large part to how hot they run by design- which leads to leaking valve cover and oil filter housing gaskets, among other things.
I'm interested to see how the M276 motor in my C43 ages; the M-B forums indicate that it is relatively problem free. Time will tell.

That is a nice car. We had an E350 wagon when the kids were younger. Not as fast obviously but a nice car.

Apologies if I was short some time ago about the volume of your exhaust. Where I live, the police have been de-balled and so there is basically no enforcement of the motor vehicle laws, including equipment violations like obnoxiously loud exhausts, excessively tinted windows, emissions violations, etc. and I have a new teen driver so it is of real concern to me that one of these idiots will get him killed while street racing. So between the quality of life impacts to our communities when people behave lawlessly without consequences and concerns as a parent, (I am shocked that exhausts that would be flagged on track for volume are not penalized on the street) I was probably too harsh with my comments, particularly since Seabrook is one of our happy places where this kind of nonsense has not taken over. Take care.

 

[MCompact]

That is a nice car. We had an E350 wagon when the kids were younger. Not as fast obviously but a nice car.

Apologies if I was short some time ago about the volume of your exhaust. Where I live, the police have been de-balled and so there is basically no enforcement of the motor vehicle laws, including equipment violations like obnoxiously loud exhausts, excessively tinted windows, emissions violations, etc. and I have a new teen driver so it is of real concern to me that one of these idiots will get him killed while street racing. So between the quality of life impacts to our communities when people behave lawlessly without consequences and concerns as a parent, (I am shocked that exhausts that would be flagged on track for volume are not penalized on the street) I was probably too harsh with my comments, particularly since Seabrook is one of our happy places where this kind of nonsense has not taken over. Take care.

Apology accepted- but I should have been more respectful as well.

 

[ATex7239]

Plastics are here to stay for the foreseeable future.

No sense pining over it.

 

[vavavroom]

Intake - no way they could build the complexity of modern intakes into a cast piece. If there done right they don't cause issues.

Extremely complex parts can be 3D-printed in metal alloys - at a cost and it may be very time extensive. But it's doable, especially for low-volume production. There are various techniques of turning a 3D-printed part into a solid metal object. The question is whether or not metal is the best option in terms of cost, service life, and expected failure rate.

My vehicles have plastic components with an expected service life that generously coincides with an expected service item so replacing the components as part of the service is in my opinion no biggie. Even if the part had a longer service life the part would still have to be removed, inspected, cleaned, and fitted with new seals during a service every 6 to 8 years.

For example. There is is a complex plastic component that includes the thermostat and a coolant crossover pipe. The component has several o-rings that have an expected service life of 6 to 8 years. Since o-ring replacement necessitates removal of the complex unit with labor being the highest contributor to cost, it makes sense to replace the whole component, which includes the thermostat, at that time. If the component was made from metal you'd save $120 every 6 to 8 years. If a cost of $120 every 6 to 8 years for a new part breaks the bank I don't know what to say.

 

[vavavroom]

Just wanted to add the following:

Plastic IM and valve covers, other than aesthetics, I don't care. Engines are generally ugly now on most cars. Plastic oil pan - I don't like it. Plastic cooling system components - fine by me. Plastic clips and fasteners that crumble after 10 years just when I look at them the wrong way, I loathe those.