What makes the Ford, Honda and Chrysler 5-20 spec.

[toocrazy2yoo]

On other forums (I know, I know, IS there ANY other forum?

) I have read speculation that the design processes and engineering of cars of today geared is toward making everything "less". Smaller oil passages, smaller oil pumps requiring less HP to drive them through ever smaller filters, and these factors being the main nuts and bolts reasoning behind 5W20 and the effects of thinner oils on CAFE. Valid?

I have no dog in the hunt here, other than my bias towards a service manual that insists on 5W20.

 

[427Z06]

Quote:

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...I have read speculation that the design processes and engineering of cars of today geared is toward making everything "less". Smaller oil passages, smaller oil pumps requiring less HP to drive them through ever smaller filters, and these factors being the main nuts and bolts reasoning behind 5W20 and the effects of thinner oils on CAFE. Valid?...

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That's another way to look at it. It may be the case that since 5w20s have become mainstream, engine developers will only have the funds/time to Val/Ver their designs to the recommended viscosity. Straying too far from these recommendations may have implications on long-term durability.

 

[Doc8404]

My 01 civic specs call for 5W-20, 365 days a year...
my galant?
heck, never seen it before, but she lists:
5W20
5W30
5W40
10w30
10W40
10W50
20w40
20w50

what gives?

 

[ENEOSNippon1]

Also the 2007 Toyta Tundra 5.7
Specifys 0w-20 only!!

 

[Doc8404]

Quote:

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Also the 2007 Toyta Tundra 5.7
Specifys 0w-20 only!!

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just one more reason not to buy it.

 

[Seth]

Pls add mitsubishi to this list. My manual says 5w20 for 07 mitsu and 10w30 only if it is 100 degrees F and above.

 

[crw]

I also am getting tired of the constant citing of CAFE, which I think is a scapegoat here. Consider this, perhaps (I don't know) Ford needs all the help they can get to meet CAFE. Just speculation. But, I don't think Honda needs any help at all to meet CAFE. If they meet CAFE with many miles to spare, what is their motivation??

Perhaps it could be that 5w-20 flows better and actually performs better?

 

[Winston]

It performed great in my '95 Mitsu. With towing at nearly full throttle for 2hours in over 100 degree heat.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...true#Post818843

 

[crw]

From the CAFE website:

What is the penalty for not meeting CAFE requirements for any given model year (MY)?

The penalty for failing to meet CAFE standards recently increased from $5.00 to $5.50 per tenth of a mile per gallon for each tenth under the target value times the total volume of those vehicles manufactured for a given model year.

Since 1983, manufacturers have paid more than $500 million in civil penalties. Most European manufacturers regularly pay CAFE civil penalties ranging from less than $1 million to more than $20 million annually. Asian and domestic manufacturers have never paid a civil penalty.
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Since no domestic manufacturer (including Ford) has ever paid a dime of CAFE fines, why would they be scared into changing their oil spec based on CAFE regs? Answer, they weren't.

 

[Camu Mahubah]

"...manufacturer's have paid more than $500 million in civil penalties..."

American manufacturer face such severe penalties it's no wonder they have money trouble...

 

[aquariuscsm]

I`ve always assumed it was because of the constant strain for the best fuel economy.

 

[Panzerman]

Honda still has to compete and the cars with the best gas mileage on the sticker sell.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:

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Since no domestic manufacturer (including Ford) has ever paid a dime of CAFE fines, why would they be scared into changing their oil spec based on CAFE regs? Answer, they weren't.

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Well, not completely true. It's more a manipulation from the other end of it. Ford, our enlightened beacon that brought 5w-20 to the mainstream market, had a simple profit model. Sell as many econoboxes as are needed to sell our profit loaded gas guzzlers. Although the Escort is long gone, they sold every one of them at a loss to "allow" the production of Lincolns and whatnot without penalty.

Now since they knew that all engines that typically spec'd 5w-30 already were capable of running on 20 weights (due to shearing of older 5w-30's) ..the only thing that they had to do to sweep out this untapped corner was to make a 5w20 available to the consumer on a mass scale. They did it ..got to use it for certification ...got to produce more gas guzzlers.

They, single handedly, evolution-ized the market and everyone else got the watershed benefits. So, was it for "CAFE" ..yes and no ..it was more of another way to skin the cat to get to the $$$. It's one of the best BOLD MOVES that they ever made.

 

[Panzerman]

That makes sense. I remember when the 5w20 spec came out and all the Fords spec'd it and very conveinently Ford was the only one that marketed it. Therefore they sold the cars and sold all the oil for thier cars by looming a warranty issue overhead. It was a win/win deal throw in the Cafe to let them produce more big cars and now a win/win/win.

 

[Nickdfresh]

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"...manufacturer's have paid more than $500 million in civil penalties..."

American manufacturer face such severe penalties it's no wonder they have money trouble...

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Well, maybe if they hadn't bought the rights too, then buried, the 70-mpg carburetor.

 

[Seth]

I was recently digging up old threads in UOA section and found this thread
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...true#Post809410

If you look at it carefully, 5w30 and 5w20 performed well considering other factors such as break-in, abrasive silicon, mileage on oil etc in play...

 

[Big Jim]

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That makes sense. I remember when the 5w20 spec came out and all the Fords spec'd it and very conveinently Ford was the only one that marketed it. Therefore they sold the cars and sold all the oil for thier cars by looming a warranty issue overhead. It was a win/win deal throw in the Cafe to let them produce more big cars and now a win/win/win.

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5W20 was available elsewhere and in great quantities for low prices. Dealers were screaming that Ford was selling Motorcraft 5W20 to . . . to . . . to . . . WALMART. Walmart was selling Motorcraft 5W20 for less than Ford was charging the dealers! Many dealers quite buying from Ford and bought it by pallet load from . . . from . . . from . . . WALMART.

Ford eventually explained that they did what they had to do to make 5W20 readily available in the marketplace.

 

[Master ACiD]

Quote:

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I also am getting tired of the constant citing of CAFE, which I think is a scapegoat here. Consider this, perhaps (I don't know) Ford needs all the help they can get to meet CAFE. Just speculation. But, I don't think Honda needs any help at all to meet CAFE. If they meet CAFE with many miles to spare, what is their motivation??

Perhaps it could be that 5w-20 flows better and actually performs better?

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doubtfull.

honda likes to stay ahead of the curve. i remember reading an article which quoted a pr guy from honda saying that they are 6 years ahead of the epa in terms of emissions compliance and fuel ecnonmy.

in countrys with no cafe or epa, all ths sudden honda recomends 5w0, 15w40, etc.

 

[Throckmorton]

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Some more info:

http://www.dantheoilman.com/fordoilfaq.doc

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Great link!

What puzzles me is that even though Chrysler recommends 5W-20 for its 5.7L Hemi, it insists on 10W-30 for its 3.5L V6. Anyone care to speculate on why this is the case?

 

[Panzerman]

Iam talking when 5w20 first showed up, my sisterinlaw bought a Escort Z or something, and I had a hard time finding a 5w20 for her oil change, so I told her we could just use 5w30 and she got all paranoid, so I said take it the dealer. The oil companies didnt really jump on producing it till they were sure it wasnt a fad. Ianm talking about back in the late 1990s.