What LL01 to try next?

[f355spider]

M1 ESP 0W-30 doesnt carry a LL01 or LL04 so it didnt make my list. Only the 5W-30 appears to carry LL04.

Went with the castrol 0w-40 this time around.

I am curious why BMW hasnt approved LL04 for the US. I poked around a bit and it looks like 10ppm is the target but there still exists a credit system in the US where fuel suppliers can go over by burning credits. I wonder if BMW isnt comfortable with this vs a hard limit. IE in 2023 ~56billion gallons on the market were above 10ppm and 70.2 billion were below. Perhaps you can have a issue with LLO4 oil if you are in a spot in the market where the higher sulfur fuel ends up.

Great information...what would be interesting to know, is when refiners go over the limit, how much over are they going? The max is 80ppm...but are they actually that high, or only 30ppm or something?

Also, it would interesting to know which refiners are using the most credits each year? And in what geographical locations?

 

[chris719]

Ravenol VMP 5W30. All PAO.

Not LL01 and there's no oil that is all PAO. A good choice, however.

 

[chris719]

M1 ESP 0W-30 doesnt carry a LL01 or LL04 so it didnt make my list. Only the 5W-30 appears to carry LL04.

Went with the castrol 0w-40 this time around.

I am curious why BMW hasnt approved LL04 for the US. I poked around a bit and it looks like 10ppm is the target but there still exists a credit system in the US where fuel suppliers can go over by burning credits. I wonder if BMW isnt comfortable with this vs a hard limit. IE in 2023 ~56billion gallons on the market were above 10ppm and 70.2 billion were below. Perhaps you can have a issue with LLO4 oil if you are in a spot in the market where the higher sulfur fuel ends up.


https://www.epa.gov/renewable-fuel-standard/sulfur-averaging-banking-and-trading-abt-credit-data



also stumbled across a summary in this article that explains that low sulfur fuel is driving part of the cost spread increase we have been seeing between premium and regular.
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=64064

Interesting info but I don't think that drives BMW to not approve LL04 for NA simply because LL17FE+ LL22FE++ etc are all mid/low SAPS specs just like LL04 but are the default oils for new BMWs in NA.

 

[Marcozi]

Not LL01 and there's no oil that is all PAO. A good choice, however.

You are correct on both counts. It's an LL04 oil with a PAO base stock (Group 4).

 

[slo town]

The UOA that edy posted suggests it is very different now un?fortunately.

It's still 25% to 50% PAO based on the April 2025 MSDS.

Scott

 

[chris719]

It's still 25% to 50% PAO based on the April 2025 MSDS.

Scott

The additive package is completely different though. The SDS is just a rough guideline also. You can tell even the base oils changed because the pour point used to be -60 C and now it's -45 C.