What kind of tire failure is this? CTS-V Hankook Ventus

[Gasbuggy]

This is an older picture of something I never figured out. I noticed one day when I got a little over a hundred miles an hour that the car felt unsteady. This got me poking around and noticing this.

Hankook wasn't interested in it. I've showed it to some mechanic friends over the years and no one knew what went wrong. I replaced all 4 with new Michelin A/S 3+s at the time (2019) which has been the best tire I've ever owned. It wasn't an alignment issue because I never had one done and the front tires are wearing great.

 

[Lubener]

Some type of ply separation. The tire wore very unevenly and was nearing the end of its lifespan anyway. I can see why Hankook wasn't very interested since the tire tread is getting thin.

 

[Gasbuggy]

Yokohama paid to have UPS pick up a failed tire from me once, for their own research, not warranty.

Ply separation causes uneven wear..


Side note, these Hankooks run so narrow you get zero wheel protection from the tire. In that picture you can see the sidewall doesn't even come out past the rim.

 

[Jetronic]

I've seen that before, I'm not sure it's a tyre failure, or started as one. IMO it's the result of camber and toe being too far out for that tyre. Stiffer sidewalls and more rigid tread blocks are more susceptible to this.

 

[CapriRacer]

This is an older picture of something I never figured out. I noticed one day when I got a little over a hundred miles an hour that the car felt unsteady. This got me poking around and noticing this.

[[Photos omitted to save space]]

Hankook wasn't interested in it. I've showed it to some mechanic friends over the years and no one knew what went wrong. I replaced all 4 with new Michelin A/S 3+s at the time (2019) which has been the best tire I've ever owned. It wasn't an alignment issue because I never had one done and the front tires are wearing great.

That's alignment wear - just a very extreme case.

Ya' see, the belts stiffen the tread area and reduce the wear rate,

Except beyond the edges of the belt. There the wear rate is much faster, but normally the tire gets removed before that wear rate difference becomes apparent.

 

[berniedd]

Is the tire the OEM size for the car?

 

[Kira]

Worn, yes.
It looks like tread and carcass/sidewall somehow separating at that point.
Perhaps some 'final application of rubber to the sides' didn't make it all the way around the mold?

 

[Cujet]

Some tires will wear that way when there is a touch of toe-out. The loading of toe-out during straight driving pushes or migrates the tire tread slightly outboard and scrubs the inner edge. It is no surprise that higher quality tires tolerate this without damage.

Excessive negative camber, when all else is equal, will wear the tire at an angle, and not a tiny portion of the inner edge.

 

[Jetronic]

Some tires will wear that way when there is a touch of toe-out. The loading of toe-out during straight driving pushes or migrates the tire tread slightly outboard and scrubs the inner edge. It is no surprise that higher quality tires tolerate this without damage.

Excessive negative camber, when all else is equal, will wear the tire at an angle, and not a tiny portion of the inner edge.

the tyre IS worn at an angle

 

[Cujet]

the tyre IS worn at an angle

I'm just taking a guess, based on one picture and without any alignment measurements. However all other things being correct, excessive negative camber in the manner driving enthusiasts prefer (for great cornering power) won't typically wear a quality tire in that manner.

What it will do is this (if not used for track days) , where the inner tread is gone, and the middle half gone, and the outer intact:

I strongly suspect his car has a bit of negative camber, as do nearly all performance cars, and a touch of toe out.

Here is one that had excessive toe out:
You can see that negative camber took it's toll too. But that did not cause the failure, toe out did.

 

[Jetronic]

I'm just taking a guess, based on one picture and without any alignment measurements. However all other things being correct, excessive negative camber in the manner driving enthusiasts prefer (for great cornering power) won't typically wear a quality tire in that manner.

What it will do is this (if not used for track days) , where the inner tread is gone, and the middle half gone, and the outer intact:

I strongly suspect his car has a bit of negative camber, as do nearly all performance cars, and a touch of toe out.

Here is one that had excessive toe out:
You can see that negative camber took it's toll too. But that did not cause the failure, toe out did.

I know; but in my experience when you have enough negative camber, excessive toe-in or out doesn't matter, that inside shoulder gets worn. It effectively becomes a leading edge that wears.

and I can see the angled wear from the camber on the picture he posted

 

[cheesepuffs2]

This is from negative camber. A CTS-V is going to spec a more aggressive alignment than average in the interest of performance over tire longevity.

 

[Cujet]

This is from negative camber. A CTS-V is going to spec a more aggressive alignment than average in the interest of performance over tire longevity.

I don't disagree that the car had neg camber. In the pic, it does not seem like much. But without actual measurements, who knows how much.

But for those still reading, running a healthy dose of negative camber turns into real inner edge related trouble when coupled with a bit of toe out. The moral of this story is to understand your alignment specs and get a proper alignment to prevent these problems.

 

[Gasbuggy]

Is the tire the OEM size for the car?

Yes 255/40/19 but, when you look at dimensions this tire was not the same width as a Michelin which was the OEM tire.

 

[Gasbuggy]

the tyre IS worn at an angle

Maybe a better question is, is this a failure or normal based on the wear?

I can't rotate them. The stock rear is a 285.

I've worn plenty of tires to the cords on the inside before with no L shaped edge showing. Not trying to argue with anyone, just looking to gain knowledge.

 

[Jetronic]

Maybe a better question is, is this a failure or normal based on the wear?

I can't rotate them. The stock rear is a 285.

I've worn plenty of tires to the cords on the inside before with no L shaped edge showing. Not trying to argue with anyone, just looking to gain knowledge.

I think there's an issue with the suspension/steering linkage on that corner causing this. No steering wheel pull at all?

 

[CapriRacer]

Maybe a better question is, is this a failure or normal based on the wear?

No, this is not a failure. It's a combination of alignment wear and a narrow belt package. Had the wear been even, then the effect would have been small. Had the belt package been wider, then there would only be alignment wear.

Why did Hankook make the belt package narrow? Well, cost comes to mind. Belt material is much more expensive than rubber. It's a trick that is sometimes used to get the tire cost competitive. Do other tire manufacturers do this? Yes, but it's kind of rare as it leads to issues such as this.

There is also the possibility that Hankook was using a building configuration called Sidewall-Over-Tread, where the sidewall goes all the way into the tread. That would explain the crack.

 

[Gasbuggy]

I think there's an issue with the suspension/steering linkage on that corner causing this. No steering wheel pull at all?

None ever.

 

[JRay’07]

Some tires will wear that way when there is a touch of toe-out. The loading of toe-out during straight driving pushes or migrates the tire tread slightly outboard and scrubs the inner edge. It is no surprise that higher quality tires tolerate this without damage.

Excessive negative camber, when all else is equal, will wear the tire at an angle, and not a tiny portion of the inner edge.

^^This. Whenever you depress your brake pedal to slow the vehicle, the bushings in the front suspension can deflect in a manner that wears the tires unevenly. Everything can be in specification when a car is on an alignment rack but this does not reflect what happens on the road.

Inspect your suspension bushings for wear and have the alignment checked before mounting a new set of tires.

 

[Chris142]

I've seen that before, I'm not sure it's a tyre failure, or started as one. IMO it's the result of camber and toe being too far out for that tyre. Stiffer sidewalls and more rigid tread blocks are more susceptible to this.

X2. I see it often on euro cars.