Mann+Hummel.The big question here is who is making the MOBIL filters? Mann and Hummel or First Brands? There is some confusion going on as First Brands acquired Champion some time back.
Mann+Hummel.The big question here is who is making the MOBIL filters? Mann and Hummel or First Brands? There is some confusion going on as First Brands acquired Champion some time back.
The later Champ Labs filters also had the A suffix. It indicates they meet the 20K mile change requirement.When they tacked on the “A” suffix, Mann & Hummel started making them. And quality dropped. I would spend a tiny bit more for the AC Delco UPF64R.
When they tacked on the “A” suffix, Mann & Hummel started making them. And quality dropped. I would spend a tiny bit more for the AC Delco UPF64R.
I don't know. Their signature line from Champion Labs (now [email protected]) is below:Who makes the AC Delco filters? Same company.
I don't know. Their signature line from Champion Labs (now [email protected]) is below:
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Assuming that a Delco filter was what the factory installed wouldn’t that be a sure fire replacement? Car manufacturers hate to eat warranty repairs so they wouldn’t install filters that would sacrifice engines.I had purchased several M113A filters for my 2015 Corvette when they were being made by Champion Labs. Since the catalogue on the Mobil1 website specifies the M113A filter for my car that requires a 22 psi bypass pressure but also specifies the M113A for cars that require a 15 psi bypass pressure I was concerned about the bypass pressure being correct and contacted Mobil1 technical support. Champion Labs responded that the M113A is correct for my car and has a 22 psi bypass pressure.
I now have a 2020 Corvette which also requires a 22 psi bypass pressure and I have several M113A filters made by Champion Labs. Mann+Hummel is now the supplier of Mobil1 filters. A poster on the Corvette forum had contacted Mobil1 technical support inquiring about the bypass pressure of the M113A filter. He was told the M113A bypass pressure is too low and he should use a M114A filter which isn't yet on Mobil1's website (but it is available at Advance Auto). The website still shows the M113A as the correct application for a 2020 Corvette. I contacted Mobil1 technical support and was told the same thing by the M+H support. They said I need to contact Champion Labs for questions about the M113As made by Champion Labs.
Does anyone know the true bypass pressure of the M113A made by Champion Labs?
Actually, there were a few C7 engine failures that were attributed to contaminated ACDelco PF64 filters (one was a press car under review). They were covered under warranty but still a hassle.Assuming that a Delco filter was what the factory installed wouldn’t that be a sure fire replacement? Car manufacturers hate to eat warranty repairs so they wouldn’t install filters that would sacrifice engines.
You know what they say about opinions….and this un is mine.
Why doesn't someone on the C8 boards cut open a M+H made 113A and measure the bypass valve to verify the actual PSI setting ?Actually, there were a few C7 engine failures that were attributed to contaminated ACDelco PF64 filters (one was a press car under review). They were covered under warranty but still a hassle.
But in my case I'm just trying to make sure the three Champ Labs M1-113A I have sitting on my shelf are suitable for use in my C8. I have two M+H M1-113A filters that I'm going to return.
Yes, the engines were covered under warranty by GM. The assumption is that if you install a bad OEM filter and it causes an engine failure while still under warranty that GM will cover it, but I have never seen anything in writing other than the filter itself being covered. Nor have I seen anything in writing that if an ACDelco filter causes an engine failure when an engine is out of warranty that ACDelco will cover it.Assuming that a Delco filter was what the factory installed wouldn’t that be a sure fire replacement? Car manufacturers hate to eat warranty repairs so they wouldn’t install filters that would sacrifice engines.
You know what they say about opinions….and this un is mine.
Probably because M+H is already telling us that their M1-113A has a bypass pressure in the 15 psi range and if you want higher you need to use a M1-114A filter with a 25 psi bypass pressure.Why doesn't someone on the C8 boards cut open a M+H made 113A and measure the bypass valve to verify the actual PSI setting ?
At least you have 3 older 113As for future use so you can see how it goes with the 114A with consumers.Probably because M+H is already telling us that their M1-113A has a bypass pressure in the 15 psi range and if you want higher you need to use a M1-114A filter with a 25 psi bypass pressure.
M+H might not have realized that the Mobil1 catalogue was cross referencing the same filter for both bypass pressures when they became the supplier. The M+H and Champ labs M1-113A filters are definitely different designs even though they share the same Mobil1 part number.At least you have 3 older 113As for future use so you can see how it goes with the 114A with consumers.
On a side note - if M+H actually reduced the bypass valve setting to 15 PSI on the 113As they build, then they must also have completely changed the filter media, or increased the media surface area my a lot, but I highly doubt they did that.
It's a lot safer to specify a filter with a higher bypass valve setting to be used in place of a filter with a lower bypass valve setting. It's questionable to specify a much lower bypass setting to be used in place of a filter with a higher bypass setting. This is only comparing the same oil filter brand and model, because as mentioned the bypass valve setting has a lot to do with the specific oil filter design - ie, media area, media flow performance, media holding capacity, oil filter "up to" mileage rating, etc. That's why you will see 10 different brand oil filters specified for the same engine not all having the same bypass valve setting. If an oil filter is free flowing and has a high holding capacity it doesn't need as high of a bypass setting as a filter that is more restrictive and has less holding capacity.Right now I'm taking Champion labs at their word that their M1-113A filter has the higher bypass pressure. But that still doesn't explain how their M1-113A can be used in place of a PF48 with a lower bypass pressure. Either their M113A always had a higher bypass pressure or they changed the bypass pressure to meet the higher GM bypass pressure. Or perhaps the specs are written such that the filter can meet both requirements. Or they are just lying.
I wouldn't use any of them in an LT1 or LT2. The 113/113A predates the C7 Corvette. It was the specified filter for the C6, which used a 15 psi bypass. It still is. The C7 always required the 22 psi bypass. The Mobil 1 filter never changed.At least you have 3 older 113As for future use so you can see how it goes with the 114A with consumers.
On a side note - if M+H actually reduced the bypass valve setting to 15 PSI on the 113As they build, then they must also have completely changed the filter media, or increased the media surface area my a lot, but I highly doubt they did that.
This is what concerned me originally and why contacted Mobil1 support when the filters were being made by Champion labs which was also making the OEM ACDelco PF64 filters at the time. I don't know of anyone with a C6 actually contacted them to verify the bypass pressure, it would have been interesting to hear what they said. Since Mobil1 has never published the bypass pressure it is quite possible they have always made the M1-113A with the higher bypass pressure.I wouldn't use any of them in an LT1 or LT2. The 113/113A predates the C7 Corvette. It was the specified filter for the C6, which used a 15 psi bypass. It still is. The C7 always required the 22 psi bypass. The Mobil 1 filter never changed.
And the early engine failures with the PF64 were with the original version (12640445). It's been changed twice since then (12696048 and 12706595).
Didn't @RKCRLR say in post #1 that the Mobil 1 113A filters made by Champion Labs had a 22 PSI bypass valve. Maybe it started out with a 15 PSI bypass valve and then was updated to a 22 PSI bypass after the GM bulletin came out. Filter manufactures often make design changes and keep the same filter model number.I wouldn't use any of them in an LT1 or LT2. The 113/113A predates the C7 Corvette. It was the specified filter for the C6, which used a 15 psi bypass. It still is. The C7 always required the 22 psi bypass. The Mobil 1 filter never changed.
And the early engine failures with the PF64 were with the original version (12640445). It's been changed twice since then (12696048 and 12706595).
Champion Labs responded that the M113A is correct for my car and has a 22 psi bypass pressure.