What it the true bypass pressure of the Mobil1 M113A filter made by Champion Labs?

[RKCRLR]

I had purchased several M113A filters for my 2015 Corvette when they were being made by Champion Labs. Since the catalogue on the Mobil1 website specifies the M113A filter for my car that requires a 22 psi bypass pressure but also specifies the M113A for cars that require a 15 psi bypass pressure I was concerned about the bypass pressure being correct and contacted Mobil1 technical support. Champion Labs responded that the M113A is correct for my car and has a 22 psi bypass pressure.

I now have a 2020 Corvette which also requires a 22 psi bypass pressure and I have several M113A filters made by Champion Labs. Mann+Hummel is now the supplier of Mobil1 filters. A poster on the Corvette forum had contacted Mobil1 technical support inquiring about the bypass pressure of the M113A filter. He was told the M113A bypass pressure is too low and he should use a M114A filter which isn't yet on Mobil1's website (but it is available at Advance Auto). The website still shows the M113A as the correct application for a 2020 Corvette. I contacted Mobil1 technical support and was told the same thing by the M+H support. They said I need to contact Champion Labs for questions about the M113As made by Champion Labs.

Does anyone know the true bypass pressure of the M113A made by Champion Labs?

 

[ZeeOSix]

I had purchased several M113A filters for my 2015 Corvette when they were being made by Champion Labs. Since the catalogue on the Mobil1 website specifies the M113A filter for my car that requires a 22 psi bypass pressure but also specifies the M113A for cars that require a 15 psi bypass pressure I was concerned about the bypass pressure being correct and contacted Mobil1 technical support. Champion Labs responded that the M113A is correct for my car and has a 22 psi bypass pressure.

I now have a 2020 Corvette which also requires a 22 psi bypass pressure and I have several M113A filters made by Champion Labs. Mann+Hummel is now the supplier of Mobil1 filters. A poster on the Corvette forum had contacted Mobil1 technical support inquiring about the bypass pressure of the M113A filter. He was told the M113A bypass pressure is too low and he should use a M114A filter which isn't yet on Mobil1's website (but it is available at Advance Auto). The website still shows the M113A as the correct application for a 2020 Corvette. I contacted Mobil1 technical support and was told the same thing by the M+H support. They said I need to contact Champion Labs for questions about the M113As made by Champion Labs.

Does anyone know the true bypass pressure of the M113A made by Champion Labs?

If Mobil and Champion Labs doesn't know the bypass valve pressure setting on their oil filters, then nobody will. You could cut one open and do a measurement of the bypass spring opening force and the bypass opening area and confirm via calculation what it is. I'm surprised someone on the Vette boards haven't done that already since there seems to be conflicting information.

 

[Greasymechtech]

Bypass is too often misunderstood. Don't use the word required.
Technical support is hit or miss, and some spec's aren't for consumers intellect level.

If the manufacturer has a new PN available, then use it. If the old one was recommended, you can still use it.

 

[PontiacHO]

I had purchased several M113A filters for my 2015 Corvette when they were being made by Champion Labs. Since the catalogue on the Mobil1 website specifies the M113A filter for my car that requires a 22 psi bypass pressure but also specifies the M113A for cars that require a 15 psi bypass pressure I was concerned about the bypass pressure being correct and contacted Mobil1 technical support. Champion Labs responded that the M113A is correct for my car and has a 22 psi bypass pressure.

I now have a 2020 Corvette which also requires a 22 psi bypass pressure and I have several M113A filters made by Champion Labs. Mann+Hummel is now the supplier of Mobil1 filters. A poster on the Corvette forum had contacted Mobil1 technical support inquiring about the bypass pressure of the M113A filter. He was told the M113A bypass pressure is too low and he should use a M114A filter which isn't yet on Mobil1's website (but it is available at Advance Auto). The website still shows the M113A as the correct application for a 2020 Corvette. I contacted Mobil1 technical support and was told the same thing by the M+H support. They said I need to contact Champion Labs for questions about the M113As made by Champion Labs.

Does anyone know the true bypass pressure of the M113A made by Champion Labs?

Why not a Delco filter as specified? PF63 has a 22 psi setting.

 

[RKCRLR]

^^^
I'm trying to decide if I should use my three Champ Labs M1-113A filters on my 2020 Corvette.
Doing some reading here, some people don't seem very concerned about using a filter with synthetic media even if it has a lower bypass pressure. And I live in a moderate climate. I'll rarely (if ever) start my car when it is below freezing. And it uses 0W-40 oil.

 

[Greasymechtech]

When bypass PSI is lower, its not an issue. If its too high, then its an issue. Once you accept that, forum misinformation means nothing, especially concerning the bypass.
The problem with M1 filters is their price and media. I'd pay the overprice for full synthetic media. I can get a 'blend' with an orange can, TG, One, Bosch, Ultra... and full synth from Amsoil RoyalPurple Boss Platinum/XP, and select PNs from a few other manufacturers that don't have full range of full synthetic media.

If you fear the filter that much, and can't sleep at night, just go to the dealer for an OE filter.

Oil Filters | Mobil™

Mobil 1™ oil filters are key to getting the most from your motor oil. Use of our synthetic media filters leave your vehicle with cleaner oil and an engine that performs better and lasts longer.

www.mobil.com

Our advanced performance oil filters use synthetic blend media

Mobil 1™ Extended Performance Oil Filters | Mobil™

Help extend your engine’s performance and life by using Mobil 1™ Extended Performance Oil Filters

www.mobil.com

 

[ZeeOSix]

Ideally, the filter bypass shouldn't be too high or too low. Both have their pros & cons. As mentioned in many oil filter bypass valve discussions, the filter's bypass setting depends alot on the filter's design (media type, flow performance, holding capacity).

Most filters are designed to be used on a wide spectrum of engines, so the bypass valve needs to be set for the worse case engine use senario. If an engine is really unique and needs some special oil filter with a unique design feature, the aftermarket guys will offer a special filter model for those engines (ie, some Subaru turbos that have high flow oil pumps).

If Mobil 1 and Champion Labs still shows the M1-113A is the right filter, then who's to say it's not unless Mobil and Champion Labs says otherwise?

 

[RKCRLR]

If Mobil 1 and Champion Labs still shows the M1-113A is the right filter, then who's to say it's not unless Mobil and Champion Labs says otherwise?

That's what I thought when I got the answer from Champion Labs. It's just the the M+H answer got me concerned again.
I didn't want to do anything that would jeopardize my warranty even though Mobil1 guarantees that they would cover any damage to my engine caused by their filter.

Below is my question I asked Champion Labs:

"I have a 2015 Corvette Stingray with a LT1 engine. The OEM filter is an ACDelco PF64. The Mobil1 website lists the M1-113A filter as the correct application for my vehicle. However, it also lists the M1-113A as the filter for vehicles that require an ACDelco PF48 which has a lower bypass valve relief pressure (22 psi vs 15 psi).

GM TSB #17-NA-157 discusses this:
https://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/tech/knowledgebase/print-1363.html

What is the M1-113A bypass valve relief pressure?

Specifically, I’m looking for a yes or no answer to the question below so I can file it away in my records:

TSB #17-NA-157 states:

“Any aftermarket filter must also have an internal bypass valve opening pressure specification, element integrity, filtration performance, media particle trap specification and burst strength that is equivalent to the ACDelco PF64/PF63E filters.”

Does the M1-113A filter meet the above requirements?"

And the answer I received:

"The Mobil 1 oil filter M1-113A is correct for your car and has a by-pass valve with a by-pass setting range of 18-24 psi. The Mobil 1 filter does meet or exceed all the requirements of the specifications of the PF64/PF63E oil filters which Champion Laboratories also makes."

 

[ZeeOSix]

Below is my question I asked Champion Labs:

"I have a 2015 Corvette Stingray with a LT1 engine. The OEM filter is an ACDelco PF64. The Mobil1 website lists the M1-113A filter as the correct application for my vehicle. However, it also lists the M1-113A as the filter for vehicles that require an ACDelco PF48 which has a lower bypass valve relief pressure (22 psi vs 15 psi).

GM TSB #17-NA-157 discusses this:
https://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/tech/knowledgebase/print-1363.html

The TSB says use a PF64/PF63E instead of the PF48/PF48E.

PF48/PF48E = 15 PSI (100 kPa).
PF64/PF63E = 22 PSI (150 kPa).

Re: Bold part in your post quote. If Mobil is specifying the M1-113A also for vehicles that use the ACDelco PF48, then they are doing what the TBS says - specifying a filter with the higher bypass setting.

 

[Greasymechtech]

Sounds like typical gobbledygook from the automaker and filter manufacturer.
Those unique engines, with higher bypass PSI's, are not all that unique.
Would the FL500s be considered an oversized option? Probably scrape the pavement hahahaha. Get a Filtermag instead and cut open the filters for inspection. The magnet is your friend!
I don't see GM engineering as perfectionists... way too many mistakes over the years and some addressed by the aftermarket. Hope they equipped the engine with a large enough sump for cornering around a track. Some us won't forget their z06 undersized drysump reservoir...literally dry reservoir when cornering requiring the oil capacity reservoir/tank increase.
I'd consider a remote filter... with a couple big filters... that would offend the Corvette forum crowd. Wonder if they left any room under the bonnet for a couple Fram PH8a's on a dual remote mount. The hose runs might be excessive.
How about that? The engine doesn't require an early oil change out. So, the new engines don't come with extra swarf or manufacturing debris? Way to go GM! I still consider an early oil change! Fool me once....

 

[ZeeOSix]

A poster on the Corvette forum had contacted Mobil1 technical support inquiring about the bypass pressure of the M113A filter. He was told the M113A bypass pressure is too low and he should use a M114A filter which isn't yet on Mobil1's website (but it is available at Advance Auto).

If the M1-113A has a 22 PSI bypass valve, and that's "too low" (per Mobil Tech Support), then what's the M1-114A bypass valve set to?

 

[RKCRLR]

If the M1-113A has a 22 PSI bypass valve, and that's "too low" (per Mobil Tech Support), then what's the M1-114A bypass valve set to?

He was told that the M+H M1-113A has a bypass pressure of 12 to 15 psi and the M1-114A has a bypass pressure of 25 psi.

 

[ZeeOSix]

He was told that the M+H M1-113A has a bypass pressure of 12 to 15 psi and the M1-114A has a bypass pressure of 25 psi.

But other sources say the M1-113A is 18 to 24 PSI (call it avg of 22 PSI). I'd trust the email answer before someone on the phone (mostly M+H, who don't sound tuned in with Champion Labs who makes the filter). Make the same phone call and see what answer you get.

Is the M1-114A something new that's suppose to only be for the C8 and the M1-113A for the C7?

 

[RKCRLR]

But other sources say the M1-113A is 18 to 24 PSI (call it avg of 22 PSI). I'd trust the email answer before someone on the phone. Make the same phone call and see what answer you get.

Is the M1-114A suppose to only be for the C8 and the M1-113A for the C7?

I did call the Mobile1 hotline and the M+H representative confirmed what the Corvette forum poster said. He also asked me if I was the person that just sent an email (I wasn't).

I suspect what is going on is two different manufactures with different approaches on how to meet the specifications. It is quite possible the M1-113A made by Champ Labs meet could met both the 15 psi requirement and the 22 psi requirement using tighter tolerances depending how the specifications were written. Or perhaps the Champ Labs M1-113A always had the higher bypass pressure.
Perhaps the M+H M113A version has a lower bypass pressure and the M1 catalogue hasn't caught up with the new M1-114A filter made by M+H.

I just want to make sure Champ Labs wasn't blowing smoke up my a$$ when they said it meets the GM requirements.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Yeah, could be all kinds of chaos going on if M+H is now making filters for Mobil. But for M+H to make filters with a different bypass setting, Mobil would have to spec that or approve that. If someone was making filters for me and not making them to the defined specs, then they would either be getting it right or not contracted anymore. Also, Mobil is responsible for the end product for use on the specified engines.

Like mentioned earlier, someone could verify by cutting the filter(s) open and make a couple of measurements on the bypass valve to calculate the PSI opening range.

 

[RKCRLR]

Yeah, could be all kinds of chaos going on if M+H is now making filters for Mobil. But for M+H to make filters with a different bypass setting, Mobil would have to spec that or approve that. If someone was making filters for me and not making them to the defined specs, then they would either be getting it right or not contracted anymore. Also, Mobil is responsible for the end product for use on the specified engines.

Like mentioned earlier, someone could verify by cutting the filter(s) open and make a couple of measurements on the bypass valve to calculate the PSI opening range.

I get the feeling that Mobil1 gives general specifications and relies on the filter manufacture to come up with the detailed application specifications.
If you look at the filter warranty, it is by M+H and not Mobil1.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I get the feeling that Mobil1 gives general specifications and relies on the filter manufacture to come up with the detailed application specifications.
If you look at the filter warranty, it is by M+H and not Mobil1.

The spec details shouldn't change with a new supplier, unless Mobil was involved and approved. If Champion Labs made the M1-113A with a 22 PSI bypass valve, then one would think so should M+H. I can't believe that Mobil would be blind to that, nor not be involved in any kind of design change if a new supplier is involved.

It could also be that M+H is using different media in the M1-113A then Champion Labs did, and M+H has determined their filter doesn't need a 22 PSI bypass valve. That's the problem with a TSB specifying a bypass setting when it comes to aftermarket filters. If you look at all the filters specified for the same engine, the bypass valve settings will be different, and maybe by quite a bit.

 

[RKCRLR]

The spec details shouldn't change with a new supplier, unless Mobil was involved and approved. If Champion Labs made the M1-113A with a 22 PSI bypass valve, then one would think so should M+H. I can't believe that Mobil would be blind to that, nor not be involved in any kind of design change if a new supplier is involved.

It could also be that M+H is using different media in the M1-113A then Champion Labs did, and M+H has determined their filter doesn't need a 22 PSI bypass valve. That's the problem with a TSB specifying a bypass setting when it comes to aftermarket filters. If you look at all the filters specified for the same engine, the bypass valve settings will be different, and maybe by quite a bit.

But the question is does Mobile1 provide all the specifications for each application and have the supplier comply with them? Or does mobile one give general requirements (housing thickness, media construction, etc.) and rely on the supplier to determine which filters meet the application requirements, and notify Mobil1 if they need to add a new filter to the catalogue if a particular filter is needed to meet the application requirements.

 

[ZeeOSix]

But the question is does Mobile1 provide all the specifications for each application and have the supplier comply with them? Or does mobile one give general requirements (housing thickness, media construction, etc.) and rely on the supplier to determine which filters meet the application requirements, and notify Mobil1 if they need to add a new filter to the catalogue if a particular filter is needed to meet the application requirements.

Anyone's theory. Either way, Mobil (or anyone else contracting a supplier to make things with their brand name) should be in the loop and approve the specs (wherever they come from), and the end product's quality and performance.

 

[PimTac]

The big question here is who is making the MOBIL filters? Mann and Hummel or First Brands? There is some confusion going on as First Brands acquired Champion some time back.