What is the best oil for my application?

[Striker2237]

I know there are 1000s of threads here asking the "what is the best oil" question but I think I might have an interesting case for you guys.

The vehicle I am looking for advice on is a 2003 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 Laramie with a few modifications......

The only ones relevant to this discussion are the engine and the driveline.

The engine was originally the 360 Magnum based off the 60/70s era LA 360 Chrysler small block that in magnum form is essentially a modern take on an archaic engine platform. It was also known as the 5.9L gas V8 in the 90s, it carried over to my model year before being replaced by the 3rd ten hemi. Factory spec is any API approved 10w-30 or 5w-30 oil with a change interval of every 3000 miles in severe service and 6000 in normal use.

The engine was run to 143k miles without any incident on conventional oil for the first 125k with probable longer than recommended change intervals (thanks dad......) until it came into my possession and it was changed to full synthetic oil that was a back and forth between valveoline, royal purple, mobile one and Pennzoil platinum. Never had any real problems with them except oil purple tending to disappear (found out what was causing it so no hard feelings).

Then I got bored and turned it into a 10.5:1 compression 4340 fully forged 408 Ci stroker motor that screams 6000 rpm running off 93 octane. Beast of an engine but I now have an interesting problem on my hands.

I have no idea what to run in her. The engine only shares one part with stock, the block. Well sorta.....the block was fully raced prepped and had the oil galleries modified for more flow and also had all the usual alining and honing and normal race prep work done. So what I am essentially saying is the thing does not share anything with the original engine. Clearances are all tighter than stock by .001-.005 across the board.

When started the engine used mobile 1 conventional plus a purolator filter for 20 minutes of idle/slow "swelling" of the rpm to about 2500 and 10 minutes of random rpm including 3-4k rpm spikes. Oil was then changed to a new set of the same items and the truck was driven for 500 miles with a combination of normal driving and absolute floggings and obliteration of the rear tires. Think sustained 5000+ rpm and shock loading for 15 minutes at a time.

With the break in now done and the truck ready to have its real oil added I'm at a loss what to load into her, I figured that the break in would go much better with conventional as it would allow the parts to wear in better and more completely but now I don't know what will be best for it. Truck is not my daily driver and I do tend to go hard as all [censored] on the new engine at least once per drive (trust me, you would too). I was not this way with the old engine so again I'm not sure how to go about handling oil on this one.

I have a set of Mobile 1, Pennzoil Platinum, casteroil, valvoine and amsoil on hand with a pureolator Boss, fram synthetic, amsoil EA and a Mobile 1 filter. All the oil is 10w-30, Hit me with your guidance!

 

[Striker2237]

Oh btw I don't mind changing oil often (I actually enjoy it) and cost per change is not really an issue when dealing with this sort of an engine. Also the engine is full roller from the timing chain to the rocker arms.

 

[Olas]

For a properly built engine that sees hard use Redline would be your best bet as far as protection goes. If you don't mind cost and frequent changes then that's your answer

 

[AKhan87]

Originally Posted By: Striker2237
I figured that the break in would go much better with conventional as it would allow the parts to wear in better and more completely
please explain, most modern engines come with synthetic from factory for break-in that I know of, and I never understood why people claim that conventional is better for break-in.

If your tolerances are tighter as you say, wouldn't a thinner oil be better? but then again it seems to be built for racing? and if so I would stick with factory xw-30 or even xw-40.

 

[Striker2237]

Originally Posted By: 01_celica_gt
Originally Posted By: Striker2237
I figured that the break in would go much better with conventional as it would allow the parts to wear in better and more completely
please explain, most modern engines come with synthetic from factory for break-in that I know of, and I never understood why people claim that conventional is better for break-in.

If your tolerances are tighter as you say, wouldn't a thinner oil be better? but then again it seems to be built for racing? and if so I would stick with factory xw-30 or even xw-40.


Mine was old, I would be surprised if it even came with blend from the factory. I chose conventional because that is what all the engine builders and guys I know with high output engines said to run for the first two fills lol! They claimed the synthetic would do it's job too well and not allow anything to wear in like it needed to.

 

[skyactiv]

See if you can find Castrol 0W30 Edge with Titanium in AutoZone. You want the new formula that says Titanium on the bottle, not the old stuff.

 

[Striker2237]

Why would I look for 0-30? Isn't that a lighter oil?

 

[bbhero]

The Castrol 0w30 is actually "heavier" at operating temp.. It HTHS is 3.5 at 150°C whereas most 30 grades nowadays are 3.0. This is why this oil doesn't have the ILSAC GF-5 approval. It also has the API SL approval due to higher zinc and phosphorus levels which are too high for a 30 has well.

 

[Striker2237]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
The Castrol 0w30 is actually "heavier" at operating temp.. It HTHS is 3.5 at 150°C whereas most 30 grades nowadays are 3.0. This is why this oil doesn't have the ILSAC GF-5 approval. It also has the API SL approval due to higher zinc and phosphorus levels which are too high for a 30 has well.


Interesting, is there any drawback from a protection standpoint?

 

[zeng]

It's a bonus for protection, instead.

 

[bbhero]

Nah. It's good. Now there's nothing at all wrong with a 3.0 HTHS ILSAC GF-5 oil for everyday driving.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I think general consensus here on bitog is that engine builders often don't know a thing about lubrication.

I'm not saying I do - but a lot of engine builders will recommend crazy heavy oil and really short change intervals for no particular reason.

 

[Panzerman]

I think your way over thinking this. The current 10w30 is fine. All this tight tollances/ thinner oil posts drive me insane. 10w30 is a fine grade and would serve you well as anyone else in any engine. The reason engine builders like thick oil is because the pressure exerted on a loaded engine pushes the oil out and the thicker you start the less chance of metal to metal contact. Modern engines don't get that due to the computers control the load. Hence why big trucks used to need engine bearings every 300,000 to 400,000 miles. Now the engines are computerized and the loadings are metered. Main bearings last over a million miles. Technology, it's a good thing.

 

[Nitronoise]

My Thoughts would be a rotella T-6 full syn 5W40
got a great zinc loading in the add pack, and along with a pedigree of being able to handle high temps of a diesel in today's modern environment under the hood with out breaking down,

good flow at start up and once up to temp you have a good durable oil at a reasonable cost with a great pedigree

I run it in my sons Jeep 318 and it loves it , not as modified as your engine but for an older engine like his , it stands up well to college kids on the road with good reports from blackstone

 

[beanoil]

I'm a little confused... M1 conventional? Never heard of it. Perhaps you mean Mobil conventional: Mobil Super, or in BITOG speak, MS5K perhaps?
I think with your mods, and the fact you have invested in the motor with a mind toward performance vs. stock, that Valvoline VR-1 10w30 would be my go to choice.

http://content.valvoline.com/pdf/vr1_racing.pdf

From your stash, I only see Pennzoil Platinum that I would grab.

 

[barkingspider]

10w30 errrday

 

[mazdamonky]

If the Castrol and valvoline are both synthetic then I wouldn't be hesitant to run any of those oils you currently have. Since you run the truck hard, I would look for a thicker xw30 to run in the long term. The Castrol 0w30 does sound like a good choice here. Or any good 10w30 should be fine. Even some PYB 10w30 should hold up pretty well I would imagine.

 

[440Magnum]

If you want to go boutique oil, then Redline or Royal Purple HPS or even XPR. Valvoline VR-1 wouldn't be out of the question either.

But assuming you still have a roller cam in there, I'd probably run M1 0w40 and call it a day. A 408 Stroker is still an LA v8 deep down inside, so its not going to really abuse the oil badly. If you are turning 6k RPM though, I have to ask if your engine builder drilled the main oil galleries full-length and added an oil crossover in the intake valley? That is a pretty standard LA engine mod for high-RPM operation, or else #3 main can suck air because the crank is centrifugally pumping oil out the rod bearings faster than the mains (#3 in particular) can feed it. With that mod the shorter-stroke builds can run up to 7000+ RPM easily, assuming the rods, bolts, and wrist-pins are chosen for the job.

Example:

 

[BrocLuno]

I don't build Mopars, but I do build engines now and then and they all turn RPM (mostly BBC's). I have had real good luck with Chevron Supreme 10W-30 and Delo400 in my motors for a few decades now. If you tightened, rather than loosened the clearance, I'd be at the 10W-30 end of the choice.

Run the biggest premium filter that will fit (the extra surface area adds to ease of flow). WIX or Baldwin for me (Napa Gold same as WIX).

If I was going to step up from conventional oil changed every 3K, I would likely go to MaxLife 10W-30 blend (red bottle). It's been getting good reviews in the hot-rod community.

If you are really going to flog that engine at sustained RPM, Valvoline VR-1 (silver bottle) would be my only choice short of Redline ...

 

[Striker2237]

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
If you want to go boutique oil, then Redline or Royal Purple HPS or even XPR. Valvoline VR-1 wouldn't be out of the question either.

But assuming you still have a roller cam in there, I'd probably run M1 0w40 and call it a day. A 408 Stroker is still an LA v8 deep down inside, so its not going to really abuse the oil badly. If you are turning 6k RPM though, I have to ask if your engine builder drilled the main oil galleries full-length and added an oil crossover in the intake valley? That is a pretty standard LA engine mod for high-RPM operation, or else #3 main can suck air because the crank is centrifugally pumping oil out the rod bearings faster than the mains (#3 in particular) can feed it. With that mod the shorter-stroke builds can run up to 7000+ RPM easily, assuming the rods, bolts, and wrist-pins are chosen for the job.

Example:

We did not do that modification, we enlarged and matched the oil pump port as well as bored and cleaned all the galleries and smoothed out the oil return passages in the heads. Engine is full roller.

I am using a 30% increased volume oil pump to avoid the #3 main issue you mentioned as everyone seemed to think that would be enough to avoid the problem.

The vibe I seem to be getting is to use a heavier oil and change it often with a large filter for flow?