What is the best GM engine?

[MAJA]

QUOTE]I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Chain? No maintainence. Ever. Belt? Every 60-100K, depending on the vehicle. The chain on the small block Chevy in my Buick Roadmaster will still probably around long after I'm dead. The belt in my '02 Accord will get replaced in 3 or 4 years.

While I can't say that "chains never break", I *can* say that "chains *almost* never break" and are typically designed to last for the life of the engine or longer. Belts are designed-in wear items, plain and simple. [/QB][/QUOTE]
I disagree that a chain needs no maintenance, but agree that "chains *almost* never break". The problem with high mileage chains is that they stretch, and loosen between the links slightly creating backlash or slop. This could cause starting problems, hesitation and just general subtle driveability problems affecting power and economy. Ever replace a timing chain? A new chain can be held horizontal and it would not "sag or bow". Take an old chain and hold it the same way and it will "bow". Some dont think this is a problem, but I think it is. But everyone has their own opinions on whether this needs maintenance.
A "gear to gear" probably would approach the "no maintenance needed" requirement, in my book. But I dont know of a new engine having gears, due to the gear whine it creates.

 

[T-Keith]

Like it or not a chain has a lieftime just like a timing belt, they both serve the same function, they are simply different parts with different lifetimes.

-T

 

[srivett]

The timing belt is just one part of the car. I would rather have a timing belt than have a car with rear wheel drive, king pins, and a distributor.

Steve

 

[labman]

quote:

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Originally posted by srivett:
The timing belt is just one part of the car. I would rather have a timing belt than have a car with rear wheel drive, king pins, and a distributor.

Steve

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How about a distributor that costs $500 to replace and a timing belt, and a main relay that is a nuisence failing frequently?

 

[srivett]

I am not familiar with this problem, which car are you referring to? I bet it's a VW.

I spent a few hours at a VW shop earlier in the year and overheard a few customers get "the bad news". It's always electronic in nature...

Steve

 

[Scooby]

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Originally posted by Jon:

quote:

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Originally posted by T-Keith:

quote:

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Originally posted by blueglide88:
I'm not talking about timing belts. The 3800 uses a timing CHAIN, doesn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong.

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Yes, but a chain is just as much a maintenance item as a belt.

-T

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I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. Chain? No maintainence. Ever. Belt? Every 60-100K, depending on the vehicle. The chain on the small block Chevy in my Buick Roadmaster will still probably around long after I'm dead. The belt in my '02 Accord will get replaced in 3 or 4 years.

While I can't say that "chains never break", I *can* say that "chains *almost* never break" and are typically designed to last for the life of the engine or longer. Belts are designed-in wear items, plain and simple.

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NEVER SAY NEVER.

1994 Toyota 22re, 66,621 miles. Timing chain broke while going 75mph. Major valve damage. Yes, the chain broke, NOT a guide. A fluke....sure. But it is stupidity when people say stuff like timing chains never break or need maintenance.

 

[MAJA]

quote:

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Originally posted by srivett:
The timing belt is just one part of the car. I would rather have a timing belt than have a car with rear wheel drive, king pins, and a distributor.

Steve

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I dont understand the link between a timing belt, and rear wheel drive, king pins and distributor? The original post was about the best GM engine available today. I know of no new cars with king pins! Am unsure of timing belts or chains in these new GM engines. But it appears as if the new Corvette engine has a timing chain, from the pics.

 

[labman]

How little does the manufacturer save on a timing belt vs a chain? Can't be near what the first belt change costs. No chains aren't fool proof, but does any automobile call for routine replacement?

I think GM pioneered the belt, 60's Tempest?, decided it didn't work, and went back to chains.

 

[Scooby]

quote:

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Originally posted by labman:
How little does the manufacturer save on a timing belt vs a chain? Can't be near what the first belt change costs. No chains aren't fool proof, but does any automobile call for routine replacement?

I think GM pioneered the belt, 60's Tempest?, decided it didn't work, and went back to chains.

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If you're asking about chains...yes. I tried to get Toyota to help cover the damage to my truck (about $1800 in 1998). They opened my manual and the timing chain "service" was listed at 60k miles. Again, most chains become "loose" and make noise hitting the cover, or a guide breaks. But sh*t happens.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Yeah, Timeing Chanins are usualy listed as inspect and replace as indicated. Most timeing chains can easily make it to 120,000 and beyound. It is easy to test them though. One of my friends made it 185,000 miles on his Ford 351 before he was more then 5° off. My uncle has over 300,000 on the same timeing set on his 1987 22RE Toyota Pickup. I gave him a complete set year ago but youknow how that goes!

 

[JHZR2]

Id have to say the 2.0L low inertia turbo engine in my 04 saab 9-3.
-No lag, 175 hp, 195 lb-ft of torque from just off fast idle all the way up.
-35+ MPG on the highway.
-Its the ecotec block with a saab head and closed-loop turbo system.
-runs syn oil from the factory, easy enough on it to do 15k mile OCIs.
-smooth clean and quiet, yet powerful.

How much better can it get and still be a 'GM' engine????

JMH

 

[JHZR2]

quote:

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Originally posted by T-Keith:
Like it or not a chain has a lieftime just like a timing belt, they both serve the same function, they are simply different parts with different lifetimes.

-T

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The OM617 turbodiesel in my 83 MB has 228k miles and only 1.5 degrees of 'stretch'. MB makes offset keys for much larger amounts of 'stretch', that chain is 'like new'.

But lots of MB people replace their chain around 250-300k, either because of larger amounts of 'stretch', or just as PM. We have seen that the use of synthetic oils in daimler OM series (diesel) engines cuts the rate of shain 'stretch' in half.

JMH

 

[Colt]

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Originally posted by T-Keith:
3800. Hands down, no contest. Get them while they last.

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Ditto!

 

[Al]

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Originally posted by Scooby:
1994 Toyota 22re, 66,621 miles. Timing chain broke while going 75mph. Major valve damage. Yes, the chain broke, NOT a guide.

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Not a fluke for sure. The 22RE used to be one of the most reliable engines ever..bar none. But in the early 90's they went with the Nylon guides which (when they failed early-always

) caused the chain to wear and fail. My '94 failed after 88K miles. Fortunately it failed at a very low speed and didn't cause any valve damage.

 

[Al]

Best GM Engine: An intake leaking 3.1/3.4 laying dead in a junkyard..Unable to do its owner any further financial harm

 

[Spitty]

quote:

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Originally posted by Al:

quote:

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Originally posted by Scooby:
1994 Toyota 22re, 66,621 miles. Timing chain broke while going 75mph. Major valve damage. Yes, the chain broke, NOT a guide.

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Not a fluke for sure. The 22RE used to be one of the most reliable engines ever..bar none. But in the early 90's they went with the Nylon guides which (when they failed early-always

) caused the chain to wear and fail. My '94 failed after 88K miles. Fortunately it failed at a very low speed and didn't cause any valve damage.

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Fortunatly you can get aftermarket Steel Backed guide rails for these engines, putting the OE plastic ones back in is a waist of time.

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

Exactly Al!

The best GM engine is the one not in my car!