How important is a great engine?

I owned vehicles with the following engines:

GM 3.8 V6 (Series II 3800 - W Body)
Ford 3.8 V6 (Ford Windstar)
Chrysler 3.8 V6 ( Chrysler Minivan)

The GM V6 was a delight to drive, and always felt like it had a lot of power. It was fairly reliable (had to get the intake fixed once). The GM 4 Speed transmission that was paired to it always shifted great too, and probably made the car fun to drive. But the transmission died at 150K miles (replaced it for cheap with a junkyard unit). The rest of the car fell apart and I was constantly replacing broken window regulators.

The Ford V6 also felt powerful. But it had a lot of mechanical issues as it got older, mainly with intake runners not working and causing misfires. Clearly felt inferior to the GM 3800.

The Chrysler V6 was reliable, I guess, but always felt like a gutless dog, and never impressed me as much as the GM 3800 V6. The Chrysler 6 speed transmission also shifted like crap. The Chrysler 3.8 was probably my least favorite of the bunch. It also got terrible gas mileage.
 
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I also own a vehicle with the Ford 3.0 Duratec V6.
I'd say it is an OK engine, maybe best described as "functional".

It has been very reliable, but seems underpowered for the car, and nothing jumps out at me that it is extraordinary in any way. It also has a lot of minor oil leaks that I was able to completely "fix" by adding Liquimoly Motor Oil Saver to the oil.
 
The K24W in my 2016 Honda CR-V is the result of Honda making the 2.4 L 4 cylinder and its smaller 4 cylinders for a very long time. Honda has done a lot right with this engine and properly maintained it can be expected to easly last 200,000 to even over 300,000 miles. That said, a lot of people had problems with the VTC in these. There is a simple fix on YouTube of removing the spring inside the VTC, stretchin it, and putting it back in. This one part not properly designed has been a problem for several years. And Hondas way of fixing it is an expensive labor intensive way of replacing the VTC actuator with another VTC actuator that still has the same poorly designed spring in it.
 
Elroy the Brave said:
I also own a vehicle with the Ford 3.0 Duratec V6.
I'd say it is an OK engine, maybe best described as "functional".

It has been very reliable, but seems underpowered for the car, and nothing jumps out at me that it is extraordinary in any way. It also has a lot of minor oil leaks that I was able to completely "fix" by adding Liquimoly Motor Oil Saver to the oil.
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I had a Mazda version of that in an MPV. I thought it was all right. The earlier years came with a 2.5 version of that motor, which made the small minivan gutless.

My 3.0 also developed leaks from the timing cover and a timing chain rattle at startup occasionally. And it had a few coils go bad and a plastic pcv elbow fail.

I also had a 3.8 Ford V6, Essex I think it was called. My wife brought it into my life in a Thunderbird. Did not like that engine. Slow revving, not great mileage, and it blew a head gasket. I think of all the cars I've owned, that one was the worst! Ok torque and it was pretty smooth on the highway.
 
I'm partial to BNW inline sixes. I loved the S38 in my 1988 M6. The N55 in my M235i was also very impressive. That said, I just switched to a car with a twin turbo V6- so we'll see how that turns out...
 
ikeep my 99 silverado mainly because the 5,3 ls engine is so great. best engine i have ever had in 50+ cars, trucks owned. water pump is only engine related repair in 23 years
 
JimPghPA said:
The K24W in my 2016 Honda CR-V is the result of Honda making the 2.4 L 4 cylinder and its smaller 4 cylinders for a very long time. Honda has done a lot right with this engine and properly maintained it can be expected to easly last 200,000 to even over 300,000 miles. That said, a lot of people had problems with the VTC in these. There is a simple fix on YouTube of removing the spring inside the VTC, stretchin it, and putting it back in. This one part not properly designed has been a problem for several years. And Hondas way of fixing it is an expensive labor intensive way of replacing the VTC actuator with another VTC actuator that still has the same poorly designed spring in it.
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First time I've heard of this- do they ALL go at some point (mileage related, poor maintenance?) or is it random? I've got a '15 accord 70k km
 
3800 GM
Honda K24 (284k miles)
Currently the 4.0 DOG in my 4Runner
The 4-cylinder in the 1997-2001 Camry's are flawless.
Jeep straight 6's from the 90's
 
dfarr67 said:
First time I've heard of this- do they ALL go at some point (mileage related, poor maintenance?) or is it random? I've got a '15 accord 70k km
Click to expand...
I've only got 33,500 miles on my 2016 CRV with the K24 in it. So far I haven't had any problems with the variable timing valve actuator in mine. All I can tell you is that there's plenty of YouTube videos out there of people that have had problems with them. I think some of the earlier Generations didn't have the system from what I can figure out from the YouTube videos. But it looks like the generation 4 of the CRV which started in 2012 has that system. I don't know if Honda has finally figured out that that spring needed to be stronger or they're still producing the variable valve timing actuator with the same spring in it. But I did see a YouTube video of somebody that had a 2015 Honda CRV and had it fail on him and the dealer replaced it in a couple thousand miles later it failed again. On the "Honda CRV Owners Club forum" there is some discussion about it but it also seems that the moderators of the Forum want to limit that discussion because they think that Honda already fixed the problem. There is a YouTube video made by an African-American gentleman who states that all you really need to do is put a towel under the VTC actuator when you work on it so that if you drop any of the parts they don't go down into the engine, and then remove the plate from the front of it and remove the spring and stretch that spring and put it back together. This is an extremely easy to do fix compared to completely removing the actuator which is shown in some other YouTube videos about how to do it without having to remove the cam or as Honda has it written up in their service manual completely removing the cam to remove the VTC actuator.

There is some discussion on the Honda CR-V Owners Club forum about a spring that you can buy on Amazon that is stronger than the spring that is in the actuator right now but they also say that the spring that you can buy on Amazon is a little bit too long and you have to cut it down to a shorter size. I think if mine ever starts to make the rattle on Startup that I will simply pull the spring out and stretch it and put it back in. Apparently the rattle only happens for several seconds on Startup after an engine has been sitting for enough time to completely cool off or at least let the oil completely drain out of the engine. It might be that if you have a good anti-drain-back-valve in your oil filter that alone might be preventing it from happening, I don't know for sure, this is just some speculation I have.

It seems that once the oil gets up to the proper pressure it's able to prevent the rattle from continuing to keep on going on. So if it does happen it only happens for a limited number of seconds when you first start the engine. But apparently what's going on during those seconds is not healthy for the engine. And there are some people who say that it's very tough on the timing chain while this is going on and that it ends up stretching the timing chain too much if you allow it to go on for a very long time. I do know that if the timing chain gets stretched too far the engine will detect that the cams are not properly synchronized with respect to the crankshaft and that will set off a check engine light. If it gets that far you have to replace the timing chain and that is an expensive job because you have to be able to get to the bottom of the engine or the timing chain goes around the bottom gear.
So that's another reason to fix this problem if you hear it going on during the first few seconds when you start a cold engine.
 
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JimPghPA said:
I've only got 33,500 miles on my 2016 CRV with the K24 in it. So far I haven't had any problems with the variable timing valve actuator in mine. All I can tell you is that there's plenty of YouTube videos out there of people that have had problems with them. I think some of the earlier Generations didn't have the system from what I can figure out from the YouTube videos. But it looks like the generation 4 of the CRV which started in 2012 has that system. I don't know if Honda has finally figured out that that spring needed to be stronger or they're still producing the variable valve timing actuator with the same spring in it. But I did see a YouTube video of somebody that had a 2015 Honda CRV and had it fail on him and the dealer replaced it in a couple thousand miles later it failed again. On the "Honda CRV Owners Club forum" there is some discussion about it but it also seems that the moderators of the Forum want to limit that discussion because they think that Honda already fixed the problem. There is a YouTube video made by an African-American gentleman who states that all you really need to do is put a towel under the VTC actuator when you work on it so that if you drop any of the parts they don't go down into the engine, and then remove the plate from the front of it and remove the spring and stretch that spring and put it back together. This is an extremely easy to do fix compared to completely removing the actuator which is shown in some other YouTube videos about how to do it without having to remove the cam or as Honda has it written up in their service manual completely removing the cam to remove the VTC actuator.

There is some discussion on the Honda CR-V Owners Club forum about a spring that you can buy on Amazon that is stronger than the spring that is in the actuator right now but they also say that the spring that you can buy on Amazon is a little bit too long and you have to cut it down to a shorter size. I think if mine ever starts to make the rattle on Startup that I will simply pull the spring out and stretch it and put it back in. Apparently the rattle only happens for several seconds on Startup after an engine has been sitting for enough time to completely cool off or at least let the oil completely drain out of the engine. It might be that if you have a good anti-drain-back-valve in your oil filter that alone might be preventing it from happening, I don't know for sure, this is just some speculation I have.

It seems that once the oil gets up to the proper pressure it's able to prevent the rattle from continuing to keep on going on. So if it does happen it only happens for a limited number of seconds when you first start the engine. But apparently what's going on during those seconds is not healthy for the engine. And there are some people who say that it's very tough on the timing chain while this is going on and that it ends up stretching the timing chain too much if you allow it to go on for a very long time. I do know that if the timing chain gets stretched too far the engine will detect that the cams are not properly synchronized with respect to the crankshaft and that will set off a check engine light. If it gets that far you have to replace the timing chain and that is an expensive job because you have to be able to get to the bottom of the engine or the timing chain goes around the bottom gear.
So that's another reason to fix this problem if you hear it going on during the first few seconds when you start a cold engine.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your reply. I looked semi hard yesterday- I have the K24W Earthdreams DI engine- and all the video's and references SEEM to be a generation earlier, as the K24W is a different engine sharing displacement only. I could be wrong- but I haven't experienced this symptom yet. I have done a little work on the front of the engine- belt, tensioner, alt- all I can say is the less work I have to do at that location the better. Also I have learned that this engine with the timing chain is rather picky on oil changes for long chain life. For cold days here in addition to the block heater I have an oil pan heater. I prefer decent filters- so as you say that may help keep prime.
 
One of the things that I learned here on Bob is the oil guy is that timing change or Splash lubricated and if the oil gets low they don't get that Splash lubrication. So besides changing your oil regularly if your engine does consume a little bit of oil between changes it's best to keep it near the top hole on the dipstick. I keep mine so that it covers the top hole. You don't want to overfill it because you need the airspace above the oil in the crankcase otherwise it's possible that if you over fill an engine it could cause too much pressure from bypass gas of the Pistons and blow out the front and or back seals of the crankshaft. I use Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0 W 20 and a Fram Ultra filter and I change both when the oil life indicator gets down to 20%. I plan on keeping this car for a very long time and I only have put on about 5,000 miles a year.
 
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It's debatable about whether Pennzoil Ultra Platinum or Mobil Extended Performance is the best over the counter oil to be running in these engines. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum is known for its ability to prevent deposits building up in the Rings on the Pistons. And if deposits build up there the Rings don't seal good and that's when an engine Burns a lot of oil. Of course there's also possible to burn oil by having leaking valve seals. I found the best place to buy Pennzoil Ultra Platinum is Walmart online. They seldom have it in any of the stores nearby. And even the online you have to keep looking until they have it in stock. If you buy two or more of the five Court drugs the total is high enough so that you get free shipping. If I couldn't get Pennzoil Ultra Platinum I would probably run Mobil Extended Performance.
 
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When I was shopping for my vehicle I looked at the Carfax reports and look for vehicles that had a history of the oil being changed when it should have been. Those were the only ones that I looked at seriously. When I found the one I ended up buying with a clean Carfax and oil change history then I went out and bought it the next day.
 
brages said:
There are some engines that are legendary for whatever reason, a few duds out there and some that don't get talked about much.

If you are buying a used car to keep for a while, how important do you think it is to have one of those "legendary" motors? I look back on the cars I've owned over many, many miles of motoring, and I really haven't had a ton of engine problems. Maybe that means I've owned more than my share of these supposedly excellent engines. Or maybe having a great engine vs. just an ordinary one doesn't really affect the ownership experience vs. all the other little stuff that goes bad on a car.

I'm thinking about this in the context of people who say that an old Buick 3800 will make for a great car, but you will still be dealing with 90s GM "quality" in the other parts of the car...
Click to expand...

It's important to me.

The mill, and more accurately the mill and trans make the difference between a good car and a great car.

The 3800 cars were great - the blown 3800 was a ball.
 
I'm not sure but it might be helpful that the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum does such a good job of cleaning it may keep things clean on the passageways for the variable valve timing system also.
 
JimPghPA said:
One of the things that I learned here on Bob is the oil guy is that timing change or Splash lubricated and if the oil gets low they don't get that Splash lubrication.
Click to expand...
Is that true? I don’t do teardowns but I would have guessed something like an oil squirter somewhere.

Actually: the sprocket on the crank for the chain drive is usually smaller than the diameter of the crank throws, let alone the counter weights. Maybe the chain area has its own “sump” where oil can pool, but it would be pumped in somehow.
 
Of the cars I’ve owned in 55-years of driving, the engines that stood out; 225 slant-six, 289 Ford, and the 350 Chevy.
 
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