What is PAO

BTC

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What does PAO mean? While we're at it, what is the difference in Group III, Group IV, Group V etc.? Where does Amsoil S2K 0W-30 fall into these categories? Is there a glossary of terms on this site?
 

BTC

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Thanks for the glossary. I've seen it before, but it seemed to be lacking a lot of the terminology that is thrown around in these forums, such as PAO. I thought there might be a link to more definitions. I was looking at Amsoil's site and didn't see any mention of whether S2K was a PAO oil and what grouping it belonged to, III, IV etc. Thanks though.
 
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BTC, PAO's are manmade, hydrocarbon based fluids that are derived from ethylene gas. All the Amsoil engine oils except their XL-7500 Series products are PAO/Ester based. The XL-7500 are Group III based oils. The Series 2000/3000 oils are PAO/Ester blended basestocks with a different additive chemistry from the regular Amsoil 5w-30/10w-30/10w-40. Tooslick Dixie Synthetics
 

TC

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The original PAO derivatives were pioneered by the Chinese food industry, defined under the "Chicken Kung PAO" and "Beef Kung PAO" classifications. The Batman organization later refined these classes to include the "PAO!," "WHAM!", and "BLAMO!" derivatives, but it later turned out these had nothing to do with motor oil. I hijacked the following article from the Web: "Base Oils, Past, Present and Future" by Bob Lancaster, Torco Oil Co. By the way, how does one know if a specific brand of oil (say, Phillips TropArtic 10w-30) consists of Group this-or-that base oils, as I've read in the past? "Base oils are what finished lubricants are made of before additive treatment. Base oils are not all alike. The American Petroleum Institute (API) has recognized the difference in petroleum base oil quality and so they established a rating system for base oils using the refining method, viscosity index and volatility as guide lines. There are four categories for petroleum base oils----Group I, Group II, Group II Plus and Group III. Synthetic base oils are identified as Group IV and Group V which have quality and performance values above petroleum base oils. In the past (1930 to 1960) lube oil refiners used solvent extraction and clay finishing. From 1960 to 1990 they used solvent extraction and hydrogenation finishing. Group I base oils are still made that way today. In 1990 Chevron developed a new method of refining petroleum base oils----called hydrocracking. Other refineries are using this patented process to make Group II base oils with a 90 to 100 viscosity index range. By increasing the severity of the hydrocracking process and eliminating more of the volatile distillates the viscosity index can be moved to a 110 to 115 range. That's how Group II Plus base oils are made. Group III has a minimum viscosity index of 120. The group IV synthetics base oil is exclusively for polyalphaolefin (PAO) which is made by chemical reaction. While petroleum base oils have a large number of unequal molecules, PAO's have equal molecules that are controlled by the manufacturing process. PAO's have high viscosity indexes for better oil film retention at elevated temperatures and they have superior thermal and oxidation stability----permitting higher operating temperatures needed in today's hot running engines. Other benefits in Group IV PAO base oils are increased flash points, lower pour points, lower volatility and good compatibility with petroleum base oils and most other types of synthetic base oil. Group V base oils are also produced by a chemical reaction that converts fatty acids into fluids known as esters and diesters. While these base oils are best known for making military and commercial turbine engine oils----they are also used as supplement base oils in combination with petroleum and PAO base stocks. All of the base oils rated as Group II through Group V are readily available. But there is an entirely new breed of base oil made out of natural gas called "GTL" using a new gas-to-liquid manufacturing technology. It's coming soon. Unlike major oil companies who are obligated to use base oils from their own refineries and Petro Chemical facilities, Torco is free to pick and choose the best. Base oils composed of hydrocracked petroleum Group II along with Group IV and Group V synthetics allows us to produce our own unique base oil blends so we can control the performance features of the finished lubricant. Our T-4R Racing Oil is an example of how we make semi-synthetic lubricants using a blend of petroleum and synthetic base oils that complement each other. Our synthetic racing oils are composed of Group IV and Group V base oils only----with no Group II base oil. These are expensive, especially with the addition of a very expensive MPZ additive system. In conclusion, there are many types of base oils to choose from today that didn't exist in the past and there will be new ones in the future. The backbone of a motor oil is the base oil. It is the frame on which other components are attached like detergents, dispersants, rust and corrosion inhibitors, viscosity improvers, anti-wear and anti-friction additives. None of these components will work by themselves. Too much or too little of any one component can be critical to engine performance. A motor oil formula is a recipe that requires the exact amount of each base oil and additive in order to meet both low and high temperature viscosities required for each different SAE grade----especially 0W20, 5W30 and 10W30. Base oils of the past (Group I) are on their way out for making motor oils. Petroleum base oils of the present (Group II and Group III) are the most popular because they cost less than the synthetics (Group IV and Group V. The base oils of the future will no doubt include the GTL synthetics made from natural gas." [ October 20, 2003, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: TC ]
 

TC

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Referring to BTC's original questions, as well as the article above, I have two questions hopefully somebody can answer: 1. How does one know if a specific brand of oil (say, Phillips TropArtic 10w-30) consists of Group this-or-that base oils, as I've read in various VOAs? Where can the Group info be found, or is it often derived from other numbers? 2. The article suggests that the primary difference between the Group I, II and III oils is the Viscosity Index. If, by comparing conventional oils' spec sheets and VOAs, one determines that his preferred brand of conventional oil has favorable VI, Flash Point and Pour Point numbers when compared to the competition (however the motor oil achieved those numbers, such as through additives, etc.), is it of any significance what group oil was used? The end result -- good numbers -- is what we're primarily concerned with, even if it's somehow achieved with lesser Group I and II base stock, correct...? THANKS!!!
 
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quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick: BTC, PAO's are manmade, hydrocarbon based fluids that are derived from ethylene gas. All the Amsoil engine oils except their XL-7500 Series products are PAO/Ester based. The XL-7500 are Group III based oils. The Series 2000/3000 oils are PAO/Ester blended basestocks with a different additive chemistry from the regular Amsoil 5w-30/10w-30/10w-40. Tooslick Dixie Synthetics
 
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