What exactly does volatility mean???
- Thread starter gregk24
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The NOACK Volatility Test, otherwise known as ASTM D-5800, determines the evaporation loss of lubricants in high-temperature service. The more motor oils vaporize, the thicker and heavier they become, contributing to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy and increased oil consumption, wear and emissions.
It often points to a higher-quality basestock.
The test is conducted at a very high 250C.
In practice the difference between a 5% and 12.6% NOACK rated oil may not result in any measurable difference in oil consumption if the engine in question does not see high oil temp's.
12.6% is still a good figure for a 20wt oil, and average for a 30wt oil.
In practice the difference between a 5% and 12.6% NOACK rated oil may not result in any measurable difference in oil consumption if the engine in question does not see high oil temp's.
12.6% is still a good figure for a 20wt oil, and average for a 30wt oil.
Originally Posted By: Kool1
The NOACK Volatility Test, otherwise known as ASTM D-5800, determines the evaporation loss of lubricants in high-temperature service. The more motor oils vaporize, the thicker and heavier they become, contributing to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy and increased oil consumption, wear and emissions.
So would the PU ultra SM volatility of 12.6 be bad? I use my car for short trips and lots of starts throughout the day. Change every 5,000 or sooner.
The NOACK Volatility Test, otherwise known as ASTM D-5800, determines the evaporation loss of lubricants in high-temperature service. The more motor oils vaporize, the thicker and heavier they become, contributing to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy and increased oil consumption, wear and emissions.
So would the PU ultra SM volatility of 12.6 be bad? I use my car for short trips and lots of starts throughout the day. Change every 5,000 or sooner.
High NOACK numbers are associated with heavy deposits in the PCV system and intake, the severe intake valve deposits often seen on DI engines, elevated oil consumption with thickening and increased propensity to sludge because the oil left behind is the heavier components of the original oil, etc. DI engines are, I suspect, driving the lower NOACK requirements in SN oils.
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: Kool1
The NOACK Volatility Test, otherwise known as ASTM D-5800, determines the evaporation loss of lubricants in high-temperature service. The more motor oils vaporize, the thicker and heavier they become, contributing to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy and increased oil consumption, wear and emissions.
So would the PU ultra SM volatility of 12.6 be bad? I use my car for short trips and lots of starts throughout the day. Change every 5,000 or sooner.
Not "bad," 15 is bad. But given that PU, PP, and Quaker State Ultimate Durability SN's are in the 7-10 range, M1, RP, and many others are in the 9-10 range, its not exactly stellar. Still, just use up your stash of SM and then go to SN.
Originally Posted By: Kool1
The NOACK Volatility Test, otherwise known as ASTM D-5800, determines the evaporation loss of lubricants in high-temperature service. The more motor oils vaporize, the thicker and heavier they become, contributing to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy and increased oil consumption, wear and emissions.
So would the PU ultra SM volatility of 12.6 be bad? I use my car for short trips and lots of starts throughout the day. Change every 5,000 or sooner.
Not "bad," 15 is bad. But given that PU, PP, and Quaker State Ultimate Durability SN's are in the 7-10 range, M1, RP, and many others are in the 9-10 range, its not exactly stellar. Still, just use up your stash of SM and then go to SN.
Originally Posted By: dparm
It often points to a higher-quality basestock.
And/or heavier base oil stocks are use.
It often points to a higher-quality basestock.
And/or heavier base oil stocks are use.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: Kool1
The NOACK Volatility Test, otherwise known as ASTM D-5800, determines the evaporation loss of lubricants in high-temperature service. The more motor oils vaporize, the thicker and heavier they become, contributing to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy and increased oil consumption, wear and emissions.
So would the PU ultra SM volatility of 12.6 be bad? I use my car for short trips and lots of starts throughout the day. Change every 5,000 or sooner.
Not "bad," 15 is bad. But given that PU, PP, and Quaker State Ultimate Durability SN's are in the 7-10 range, M1, RP, and many others are in the 9-10 range, its not exactly stellar. Still, just use up your stash of SM and then go to SN.
15 is not "bad" it's still acceptable. Over 15% is bad which was not uncommon years ago before the API and others set a maximum limit.
BTW, the reputed NOACK for the Honda 0W-16 will be 15%, or that's what it is in testing. Again it is not a problem since the maximum oil temp's will be kept in the low normal range.
All things being equal the lower the NOACK figure the better, but attributes of an oil are rarely equal.
For example there is usually a trade-off between a high VI and a low NOACK; you can't have both or rather it is very expensive to formulate an oil with both attributes.
Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: Kool1
The NOACK Volatility Test, otherwise known as ASTM D-5800, determines the evaporation loss of lubricants in high-temperature service. The more motor oils vaporize, the thicker and heavier they become, contributing to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy and increased oil consumption, wear and emissions.
So would the PU ultra SM volatility of 12.6 be bad? I use my car for short trips and lots of starts throughout the day. Change every 5,000 or sooner.
Not "bad," 15 is bad. But given that PU, PP, and Quaker State Ultimate Durability SN's are in the 7-10 range, M1, RP, and many others are in the 9-10 range, its not exactly stellar. Still, just use up your stash of SM and then go to SN.
15 is not "bad" it's still acceptable. Over 15% is bad which was not uncommon years ago before the API and others set a maximum limit.
BTW, the reputed NOACK for the Honda 0W-16 will be 15%, or that's what it is in testing. Again it is not a problem since the maximum oil temp's will be kept in the low normal range.
All things being equal the lower the NOACK figure the better, but attributes of an oil are rarely equal.
For example there is usually a trade-off between a high VI and a low NOACK; you can't have both or rather it is very expensive to formulate an oil with both attributes.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I suspect, driving the lower NOACK requirements in SN oils.
Yep. Also, the stricter requirements of API SN in general typically need a better basestock to begin with, and lower NOACK is an extra benefit in some cases.
I suspect, driving the lower NOACK requirements in SN oils.
Yep. Also, the stricter requirements of API SN in general typically need a better basestock to begin with, and lower NOACK is an extra benefit in some cases.
Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I suspect, driving the lower NOACK requirements in SN oils.
Yep. Also, the stricter requirements of API SN in general typically need a better basestock to begin with, and lower NOACK is an extra benefit in some cases.
Shell certainly has an advantage in using GTL oils from it's Qatar Pearl refinery. One attribute of GTL GP III+ oils are very low NOACK percentages. What I find that's odd, is that despite this very low NOACK advantage they still choose to formulate finished oils with lower than average VIs, at least with their domestic oils.
The reason I suspect comes down to cost; it's simply cheaper cheaper for them to formulate that way.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I suspect, driving the lower NOACK requirements in SN oils.
Yep. Also, the stricter requirements of API SN in general typically need a better basestock to begin with, and lower NOACK is an extra benefit in some cases.
Shell certainly has an advantage in using GTL oils from it's Qatar Pearl refinery. One attribute of GTL GP III+ oils are very low NOACK percentages. What I find that's odd, is that despite this very low NOACK advantage they still choose to formulate finished oils with lower than average VIs, at least with their domestic oils.
The reason I suspect comes down to cost; it's simply cheaper cheaper for them to formulate that way.
Interestingly, the bloke working for Honda who wanted the API to extend the range of oils below the traditional 20 weight found that
Quote:
A strong correlation was found between engine oil consumption and the results of a thermogravimetric analysis,
http://fuelsandlubes.com/conference/archives/3975
Thermogravimetric analysis being another type of volatility measurement.
Quote:
A strong correlation was found between engine oil consumption and the results of a thermogravimetric analysis,
http://fuelsandlubes.com/conference/archives/3975
Thermogravimetric analysis being another type of volatility measurement.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
What I find that's odd, is that despite this very low NOACK advantage they still choose to formulate finished oils with lower than average VIs, at least with their domestic oils.
The reason I suspect comes down to cost; it's simply cheaper cheaper for them to formulate that way.
I suspect they know what they're doing, and wouldn't spend extra money to reduce other performance aspects of their oil to meet a bonus VI requirement that's a non-existent specification.
I like how you are quick to call one the best oils on the market, "cheaped out"
The VI thing is turning into a polarizing, fundamental religion at this point, and if it's not your one true god, then you're in automatically in love with 60grade Gr1 monogrades in the arctic and shoving undistilled slack wax into your oil fill hole....... Like, is there NO reasoning?! only on BITOG
What I find that's odd, is that despite this very low NOACK advantage they still choose to formulate finished oils with lower than average VIs, at least with their domestic oils.
The reason I suspect comes down to cost; it's simply cheaper cheaper for them to formulate that way.
I suspect they know what they're doing, and wouldn't spend extra money to reduce other performance aspects of their oil to meet a bonus VI requirement that's a non-existent specification.
I like how you are quick to call one the best oils on the market, "cheaped out"
The VI thing is turning into a polarizing, fundamental religion at this point, and if it's not your one true god, then you're in automatically in love with 60grade Gr1 monogrades in the arctic and shoving undistilled slack wax into your oil fill hole....... Like, is there NO reasoning?! only on BITOG
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Interestingly, the bloke working for Honda who wanted the API to extend the range of oils below the traditional 20 weight found that
Quote:
A strong correlation was found between engine oil consumption and the results of a thermogravimetric analysis,
http://fuelsandlubes.com/conference/archives/3975
Thermogravimetric analysis being another type of volatility measurement.
Password protected
Still thanks for posting. Learn something new everyday
Quote:
TGA is commonly used to determine selected characteristics of materials that exhibit either mass loss or gain due to decomposition, oxidation, or loss of volatiles (such as moisture).
Interestingly, the bloke working for Honda who wanted the API to extend the range of oils below the traditional 20 weight found that
Quote:
A strong correlation was found between engine oil consumption and the results of a thermogravimetric analysis,
http://fuelsandlubes.com/conference/archives/3975
Thermogravimetric analysis being another type of volatility measurement.
Password protected
Quote:
TGA is commonly used to determine selected characteristics of materials that exhibit either mass loss or gain due to decomposition, oxidation, or loss of volatiles (such as moisture).
Yeah,
I'm scratching to find the article, or other works by the dude on the topic
Originally Posted By: jrustles
The VI thing is turning into a polarizing, fundamental religion at this point, and if it's not your one true god, then you're in automatically in love with 60grade Gr1 monogrades in the arctic and shoving undistilled slack wax into your oil fill hole....... Like, is there NO reasoning?! only on BITOG
Copped that myself the other day with a "so you are saying that you should have 40-70 in everything"...ummm no...
I'm scratching to find the article, or other works by the dude on the topic
Originally Posted By: jrustles
The VI thing is turning into a polarizing, fundamental religion at this point, and if it's not your one true god, then you're in automatically in love with 60grade Gr1 monogrades in the arctic and shoving undistilled slack wax into your oil fill hole....... Like, is there NO reasoning?! only on BITOG
Copped that myself the other day with a "so you are saying that you should have 40-70 in everything"...ummm no...
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