They aren't technically supported by us other than living in the condo we provide, so we can't really make financial decision for them. However, my father in law was basically living off cash out refi of his own house and have been in the past ask my wife to be on the loan, then my brother in law, etc. This got my brother in law into some financial trouble and they no longer talk to each other (brother in law and his wife are both on the deed of the father in law's house and get refi complicated with father in law's attitude, got into a verbal fight, and missed the low interest window and cost brother in law to miss a good refi). I told my wife we absolutely would not do that at the beginning of our marriage, but I was ok with her sending her parents cash allowance instead, to avoid the complication (I envisioned I need the credit for our own investment home or bigger home in the future).Then your situation is complicated by their financial reliance on you.
If they’re not able to support themselves, and you are supporting them financially, then, yes, you do get a say in their financial decisions.
An allowance, if you like. And they have a responsibility, to you, to be reasonable with their spending.
There is a lot to unpack here - about who has control - who is making decisions.
Because they rely on you for financial support, is your wife used to telling them what they can and cannot do? An inverse parent-child relationship?
Because the nature of that relationship would, of course, shape how she approaches medical decisions. She is already used to telling Mom what to do, so, of course, she wants to tell Mom what to do in this case.
I do not envy this situation. Very difficult circumstances.
This is a hard to answer question. Typically people assume that seniors with no financial mean of self support are put on an allowance plan so they don't spend like a drunken sailor. However as my father in law has shown in the past, our offer to buy them a used Hyundai Elantra turns into his wish for us to finance a lease for a fully loaded Camry XLE for 3 years, and got upset when we say no.
Can't believe this on the day of surgery:
Right before surgery nurse ask mother in law if she had oatmeal this morning, she said yes because father in law said just a small bite with milk. Nurse said no surgery today. We had to explain to the nurse that it didn't happen and she had memory issue, and mother in law said don't lie, she really did.
Still in the process of sorting this out at the hospital right now. We had to call father in law 5 times to confirm.
There's a 5 day prep so you can't expect to be staying for that long.Unfortunately the state of healthcare has changed. Not all that long ago someone in that situation might have spent the night before in the hospital to ensure everything was ready and pre-op rules were followed.
Can't believe this on the day of surgery:
Right before surgery nurse ask mother in law if she had oatmeal this morning, she said yes because father in law said just a small bite with milk. Nurse said no surgery today. We had to explain to the nurse that it didn't happen and she had memory issue, and mother in law said don't lie, she really did.
Edit: looks like Kaiser is concerned and they don't want to operate today
Edit: The procedure is cancelled
That’s not it at all. This is major surgery. Whole GI tract has to be empty to reduce risk. It’s protocol. It’s standard of care.Kaiser shenanigans. My experience with them is a procedure delayed or canceled with the patient subsequently passing is a win for them. Raising hell is sometimes the only way you can get something scheduled or performed. You have to not take no for an answer with them.
Went through this with my mother who had stage IV breast cancer. Great oncologist, everything else associated with Kaiser was terrible.
No , a big risk is not being NPO. If stomach contents are aspirated during intubation or extubation, lung damage can be unrecoverable in some patients, and or the subsequent infection from that. Anesthetic agents can temporarily impair lower esophageal sphincter tone. All sorts of problems can arise such as post operative ileus.Kaiser shenanigans. My experience with them is a procedure delayed or canceled with the patient subsequently passing is a win for them. Raising hell is sometimes the only way you can get something scheduled or performed. You have to not take no for an answer with them.
Went through this with my mother who had stage IV breast cancer. Great oncologist, everything else associated with Kaiser was terrible.
You have a point, but I stand by my assertion that for Kaiser, a procedure delayed is money saved if the patient passes in the meantime. I've seen it too often with them.How is this nurse supposed to distinguish the difference between that kind of lie and this lady’s dementia?
That’s not it at all. This is major surgery. Whole GI tract has to be empty to reduce risk. It’s protocol. It’s standard of care.
Failure to follow standard of care, or protocols, gets Kaiser sued if something happens to her during surgery.
So, patient fails to follow pre-op instructions, surgery rescheduled. Simple. And every hospital does it. This isn’t a Kaiser thing.
How is the nurse supposed to know which answer is true. “Did you do what we told you?”
“No”
Family - “she means yes!”
You just put the nurse, or the medical person, in a horrible position, which answer is true because if they guess wrong, the patient’s at risk - patient could die.
You would not believe the number of patients that come what, in tell the truth, realize they made a mistake, and then lie about it.
How is this nurse supposed to distinguish the difference between that kind of lie and this lady’s dementia?
Kaiser has been exceptionally good to us. As soon as mother in law was diagnosed and flew back to US, they see her within a week and schedule the operation within another week. We couldn't have ask for a better schedule. They also did a phone appointment to make sure we follow all the prep work (no asprin, for example) 5 days prior, and mother in law was also remembering the wrong thing and took an asprin already. We took away her med so she couldn't make the same mistake again, we make sure she went to the hospital with an empty stomach. What we didn't anticipate is that her memory is wrong within the morning and insist she ate breakfast, when in fact she didn't (we verify with 5 phone calls with father in law), all because she felt "full" in her stomach because the tumor was pushing her internal.Kaiser shenanigans. My experience with them is a procedure delayed or canceled with the patient subsequently passing is a win for them. Raising hell is sometimes the only way you can get something scheduled or performed. You have to not take no for an answer with them.
Went through this with my mother who had stage IV breast cancer. Great oncologist, everything else associated with Kaiser was terrible.
Not being sued is money saved. I think Kaiser knows how to deal with risk like that.You have a point, but I stand by my assertion that for Kaiser, a procedure delayed is money saved if the patient passes in the meantime. I've seen it too often with them.
In this case to prevent this from happening again (and if nothing changes, it will) you need to execute a power of attorney for health care to be the single point of contact to talk to medical personnel, then have her dementia documented. If the administrator or nurse chooses to get her information from a patient with dementia, then you will have recourse.
Wife was there next to her mom, and double checked with father in law at home (only 1 family member companion allowed). Mother in law insist despite her bad memory. We probably have to video record the same question before she left the house to play back to her at the hospital next time.I Feel bad for you. I do.
Were you there? Was your wife there ?
Being that the staff member wasn’t there and they can’t trust possibly one guaranteed and possibly two people who may or may not be accurate historians… The staff member was in a bad position there.
It is a bad deal…
Maybe hire a temporary home health agency to stay with them for 5 days prior into that am of the procedure.
Or maybe the next time either her or you need to be with her for the 5 days prior or at a minimum she can stay the night before into the next am.
If you are absolutely sure the parents want further medical treatments, then apply for executive control thru an attorney - who often times will suggest medical specialists they've worked with prior.Wife's mom is, in our opinion, slightly dementia and diagnosed with a 13cm tumor that is likely ovarian cancer. She was lucky that she can get a surgeon in Kaiser to schedule a surgery within 2 weeks that last 3.5hr if it is benign to about 5hr if it is indeed a cancer (based on biopsy during the surgery). However, she is starting to chicken out and was wondering if she can "wait and see" or take any other medication to reduce / treat it without surgery, as she has never gotten a surgery in life (she's currently 75). We had to convince her that this is really a matter of life and death and there really is no point waiting, and at her age she no longer needs her ovaries, and her mom and sister both had ovarian tumor or cancer so she has a family history of it.
About her borderline "dementia" behaviors: she routinely "cancel" doctors appointment by accidents and lock her medical accounts out by trying the wrong passwords too many times, like locking out 6 times a week.
This got us wondering, what do people in similar situation? How do you work with seniors who fought back on the control? When do you take over their medical plans because they are no longer capable of making decisions?
I understand what you mean.If you are absolutely sure the parents want further medical treatments, then apply for executive control thru an attorney - who often times will suggest medical specialists they've worked with prior.
Lots of times, parents want to maintain medical privacy and not show / admit to other family members that they've accepted the fact they are not immortal - don't want to live remaining lives in pain and are not interested in leaving a mountain of debt to their children, when they pass.
Many faith-driven folks turn to who they thought created them - raise their hands high in the air (I give up Mode) and tell that supernatural being that they've given up - putting the supernatural creature in charge of their future time, while still walking the earth.
My brother-in-law recently surrendered at 85 years old. He quit eating, drinking and wouldn't allow anyone to force-feed him..... even after being admitted to the hospital. He wanted no intravenous...... nuttin whatsoever!
He passed quickly and visited me five times afterwards. The last time I had collective energy with him in my twilight sleep, he used his right fist and pounded the section between his left-side collarbone and top of his shoulder 4-5 times.
If you contact a well respected local Psychic-Medium, he/she will tell you that the fist pounding at those key points on the body represents the departed family member admits to committing suicide.