Why do euro engines NEED euro oil? Is it the materials that differ in the builds? Is it all regulation based? I would honestly think there’d be the same level of difference between a ford and a GM motor as there is between a GM and a BMW. With all the modern tech and refined engineering I’m just wondering why SO many different specs out there.
What about euro engines makes them have a different requirement?
- Thread starter FlyingTexan
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Having never stepped foot in the Advance Auto equalivant in the United Kingdom, my instinct is Euro oil is a foreign marketing concept to a European, but I could be wrong.
This might help get you started. https://www.acea.auto/publication/acea-oil-sequences-2023/
www.motor.com
This might help get you started. https://www.acea.auto/publication/acea-oil-sequences-2023/
The Important Differences in Oil Specifications— European Versus Domestic | MOTOR
Technicians should us an oil that’s designed to meet a vehicle’s standards, and an oil that provides long-term preventative maintenance and performance.
www.motor.com
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Probably drain intervals.
The Americans don’t give a hoot about the Europeans and the Europeans don't give a hoot about the Americans. They both traditionally had higher grade oils but then CAFE regulations came out for “ fuel saving” 5w30 motor oil and they kept pushing manufacturers for higher and higher gas mileage results.
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When we in North America think of European cars we think of Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, BMW, Audi, etc. and the sections of the German Autobahn that allow for unlimited driving speeds. The reality is that European vehicle ownership is very expensive and most people drive doodle bug cars with tiny engines, manual gearboxes, and sparse accoutrements. Even the traffic lights simulate a drag strip Christmas tree by signaling the driver that the light is getting ready to turn green by illuminating the amber caution light first. The light turns green and they hit it.
This scenario of small engines, hard driving, and high cost of operation contribute greatly to the oil specifications called out. It's rare to see a 6.0 liter V-8 loafing down the autobahn at 1500 RPM. It's far more common to see the Renault Mégane 1.4 cruising at 160 KmH and reving near the redline. It's just how it's done.
So most mfgr's specify lubricants that work well in these environments. Higher HT/HS has been proven to be beneficial in these environments but modern times and efficiency/emissions requirements are driving us to lower viscosity lubricants and more efficient vehicles.
And here I am with my "mietwagen (rental car)" somewhere in der Faterland. I told the lady at the Sixt counter that I wished to have a fine Italian touring car and after she ran my credit she offered this
This scenario of small engines, hard driving, and high cost of operation contribute greatly to the oil specifications called out. It's rare to see a 6.0 liter V-8 loafing down the autobahn at 1500 RPM. It's far more common to see the Renault Mégane 1.4 cruising at 160 KmH and reving near the redline. It's just how it's done.
So most mfgr's specify lubricants that work well in these environments. Higher HT/HS has been proven to be beneficial in these environments but modern times and efficiency/emissions requirements are driving us to lower viscosity lubricants and more efficient vehicles.
And here I am with my "mietwagen (rental car)" somewhere in der Faterland. I told the lady at the Sixt counter that I wished to have a fine Italian touring car and after she ran my credit she offered this
I've had three Jags, four VWs, and a bunch more euro cars. All have had North American lubricants poured into them by an American hand. Some ran great, some not. Maybe I should round out the sample and try a Peugeot.
Nothing oil related.
Nothing oil related.
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Some of my past rentals in Germany/EU. All of them hit their limiter when on the Autobahn and stuck there for a while
I used Sixt for the M cars and Europcar for the E200 and Opel Insignia diesel.
Also made these videos for a friend who never has experienced the Autobahn, yes I know it's not safe to do so:
Enterting the Autobahn to Vmax:
Entering the de-restricted part of Autobahn:
The G80 M3 is so quick it was almost anti-climatic hitting the speed limiter.
I used Sixt for the M cars and Europcar for the E200 and Opel Insignia diesel.
Also made these videos for a friend who never has experienced the Autobahn, yes I know it's not safe to do so:
Enterting the Autobahn to Vmax:
Entering the de-restricted part of Autobahn:
The G80 M3 is so quick it was almost anti-climatic hitting the speed limiter.
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This picture is Awesome, so many words and thoughts looking at this Pic.When we in North America think of European cars we think of Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, BMW, Audi, etc. and the sections of the German Autobahn that allow for unlimited driving speeds. The reality is that European vehicle ownership is very expensive and most people drive doodle bug cars with tiny engines, manual gearboxes, and sparse accoutrements. Even the traffic lights simulate a drag strip Christmas tree by signaling the driver that the light is getting ready to turn green by illuminating the amber caution light first. The light turns green and they hit it.
This scenario of small engines, hard driving, and high cost of operation contribute greatly to the oil specifications called out. It's rare to see a 6.0 liter V-8 loafing down the autobahn at 1500 RPM. It's far more common to see the Renault Mégane 1.4 cruising at 160 KmH and reving near the redline. It's just how it's done.
So most mfgr's specify lubricants that work well in these environments. Higher HT/HS has been proven to be beneficial in these environments but modern times and efficiency/emissions requirements are driving us to lower viscosity lubricants and more efficient vehicles.
And here I am with my "mietwagen (rental car)" somewhere in der Faterland. I told the lady at the Sixt counter that I wished to have a fine Italian touring car and after she ran my credit she offered this
View attachment 202880
What is the Gas Mileage on this Car?
I explained this several times. I don’t want to again write exhaustive post. You can probably find it somewhere.
API didn’t want to fallow need for more sophisticated oils at the beginning of 90’s when popularity of small turbo diesel engines exploded. They founded ACEA to bring in order requirements. Rest is history.
Here is a bit more on CAFE. It was a response to the oil embargo of 1973. It was enacted in 1975 and immediately set goals leading to 27.5 mpg in 1985 from 18 mpg in 1978. Energy Conserving motor oil came out firstly in the 5w30 grade. Prior to that most manufacturers were running a 10w40 grade oil.
CAFE standards kept getting harder to meet. America was in a bad place regarding imports and production was steadily falling. This decline finally got reversed when fracking horizontal wells was put in place and oil production took right off. Still, manufacturers are being asked to increase mpg and lower emissions. Some manufacturers went to Xw20 and 0w18 motor oil and implemented some rather questionable techniques such start- stop technology on some gasoline powered vehicles.
Consumers are free to purchase whatever motor oil they want, however due to motor oil improvements most vehicles have no problem getting to at least 100,000 miles with any motor oil be it xw20, xw30, or xw40. For those high milers our there many folks have gone back to a xw40. Also, some manufacturers spec a xw40 motor oil for the high performance engine or the same engine if it’s tracked.
CAFE standards kept getting harder to meet. America was in a bad place regarding imports and production was steadily falling. This decline finally got reversed when fracking horizontal wells was put in place and oil production took right off. Still, manufacturers are being asked to increase mpg and lower emissions. Some manufacturers went to Xw20 and 0w18 motor oil and implemented some rather questionable techniques such start- stop technology on some gasoline powered vehicles.
Consumers are free to purchase whatever motor oil they want, however due to motor oil improvements most vehicles have no problem getting to at least 100,000 miles with any motor oil be it xw20, xw30, or xw40. For those high milers our there many folks have gone back to a xw40. Also, some manufacturers spec a xw40 motor oil for the high performance engine or the same engine if it’s tracked.
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Some people here think the world revolves around us. Nevermind that Europe has their own auto industry and we have ours or that Europe has a higher population than the USA, Canada, South Korea and Japan combined.
The people per square mile is skewed because Russia is considered part of Europe. If you removed Russia, the density would be hugely larger.
They stopped making the 500 in '75. When was this picture taken? I have rented a Fiat Croma in Switzerland.When we in North America think of European cars we think of Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, BMW, Audi, etc. and the sections of the German Autobahn that allow for unlimited driving speeds. The reality is that European vehicle ownership is very expensive and most people drive doodle bug cars with tiny engines, manual gearboxes, and sparse accoutrements. Even the traffic lights simulate a drag strip Christmas tree by signaling the driver that the light is getting ready to turn green by illuminating the amber caution light first. The light turns green and they hit it.
This scenario of small engines, hard driving, and high cost of operation contribute greatly to the oil specifications called out. It's rare to see a 6.0 liter V-8 loafing down the autobahn at 1500 RPM. It's far more common to see the Renault Mégane 1.4 cruising at 160 KmH and reving near the redline. It's just how it's done.
So most mfgr's specify lubricants that work well in these environments. Higher HT/HS has been proven to be beneficial in these environments but modern times and efficiency/emissions requirements are driving us to lower viscosity lubricants and more efficient vehicles.
And here I am with my "mietwagen (rental car)" somewhere in der Faterland. I told the lady at the Sixt counter that I wished to have a fine Italian touring car and after she ran my credit she offered this
View attachment 202880
Because in Europe they laugh at API and ILSAC specifications.
Partly true. CAFE oil and shortish OCI is one way of lowering emissions.
EU does longer OCI instead, less oil consumed. We dont drive as many miles per year in average, so many times its the month limit that hits first.
API 30 visc seems to be unnecessarily thin imo.
"The average American traveled 1.98 times more miles on the road each year than the average resident of France, 2.06 times more than the average German, and 2.23 times more than the average person in Great Britain.4 Residents of those countries often enjoy communities where more destinations can be accessed on foot, by public transportation, or by intercity rail."
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Historically there were different operating environments combined with a push for long drain intervals and then emissions (ULSG & ULSD). This all started in the mid 1990's with ACEA. Motor oil is almost twice the cost in EU vs US.
The intent of the approvals is to help customers of brand X choose an oil which can go the distance.
Of course euro cars are sold worldwide in markets which has fuels with various levels of sulphur and economic/regulatory conditions
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That is also my understanding. The manufacturers now all have there own specifications but they often start with an ACEA spec and build on that, for example Mercedes 229.5 is ACEA A3/B4 with some of their own criteria added. The owners manual even says if you can't find 229.5 then use A3/B4.
I recall renting a Fiat Uno in France in 1990. Three of us piled in and navigated the old part of Boudreaux every day for a week. It was a real eye opener. Europe is full of little ____ boxes. While the US fought against diminishing resources with CAFE, Europe kept on using small cars which were used on roads developed centuries ago in which each lane was the width of two horse’s asses.
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